Photos of hatters tools

[TheDane]

The more I look at that thing, the less certain I am as to just what it's supposed to do. I think your suggestion is as good as any.

After thinking about this "ding" for a couple of days, I have left all theories about an adjustable flange. There are so many things that make that explanation unlikely. I think it was made to be used in one - and only one - size.

It may be a little far fetched, but maybe it was made to accommodate for hats with a strong reversed taper - or for a last flanging of hats with some kind of decoration on top of the crown. Not necessarily gents' hats. You wouldn't be able to squeeze such a hat through a normal flange, if it couldn't be taken apart in some way.

Maybe far fetched - but not quite as far fetched as the potty training

PS: The actual flange is a snap flange made for gents' hats - and the stamp in one one points to the hatting tools maker "Allie Malliard"

 

[tonyb]

...
It may be a little far fetched, but maybe it was made to accommodate for hats with a strong reversed taper - or for a last flanging of hats with some kind of decoration on top of the crown. Not necessarily gents' hats. You wouldn't be able to squeeze such a hat through a normal flange, if it couldn't be taken apart in some way. ...

Perhaps so. And, in keeping that that theory, perhaps it was made to produce one particular style (and size) by one particular hat manufacturer. You know, a "one-off."

Has anyone around here seen a similar item before?

 

[TheDane]

Perhaps so. And, in keeping that that theory, perhaps it was made to produce one particular style (and size) by one particular hat manufacturer. You know, a "one-off."

That's very likely. It has an interesting profile, btw. A pretty tight roll in the back and a pretty flat snap in front. Try to look at this image:

You can just see the bow-groove on the inside farther flange side. That points to a gent's hat (bow in the left side). Note also the very tight roll in the back. It curls more than 180 degrees. That is even more visble in this image:

An interesting item it is, no matter what. Who needs word-puzzles or jig-saw puzzles? =)

 

[tonyb]

Might be fun to have the thing, just to make such a hat as you suggest -- one with radical reverse crown taper and a dramatically upturned rear of the brim with a snap front.

But would you need the expanding stand to make such a flange do such a trick? I can see how it would help keep the various components all together, but there could be a less elaborate way to accomplish that.

 

[Art Fawcett]

That's very likely. It has an interesting profile, btw. A pretty tight roll in the back and a pretty flat snap in front. Try to look at this image

It's called a "Bunny Tail" Ole, I can't imagine the hat that would require opening the flange large, then closing it down to flange the brim but hatting is a strange world sometimes. It could have been made for a single project. I have had flanges made for a single client so it's possible. It could have been made for a person with a head deformity that required such. Add this to the file "mysteries of life"

 

[hatsRme]

Possibly a better exhibit for the "Museum of Medical Oddities?"

 

[TheDane]

Thanks Art, I haven't heard that expression before, but it's quite obvious - especially if you're old enough to remember the ducktails fashion. I can't imagine the form either - but it was more plausible explanation than an "adjustable flange" ... not to mention my "potty-training theory"

I'm not quite sure if I find the deform headshape a lot more plausible ... maybe ... well, I have filed it alongside Stonehenge, Justin Bieber and a few other things, I with my limited intellectual skills have a hard time grasping

 

[-30-]

Could any "paired parts" be missing?

Regards,
J T

 

[tonyb]

Could any "paired parts" be missing?

Regards,
J T

Your guess would be at least as good as mine.

 

[John Galt]

I have two comments. First, I do not see why this item would need to be adjustable for a one-off. Maybe I'm missing something. Second, I sent the seller a message asking for more information.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[tonyb]

... I do not see why this item would need to be adjustable for a one-off. Maybe I'm missing something. ...

We (Ole and I) were working on the perhaps mistaken assumption that the contraption isn't adjustable so much as "openable," to accommodate a hat whose crown wouldn't go into the flange otherwise, on account of extreme reverse taper or whatever else (embellishments of one sort or another, maybe) that would leave the upper portion of the crown too large to fit through a more typical flange opening.

Pure speculation, of course.

Plausible? Well, I don't have a better explanation.

Maybe we'll all have a forehead-slapping moment, should this mystery be solved.

 

[John Galt]

Maybe this really was used to make _multiple_ hats for someone with a physical deformity, like Joseph Merrick (AKA The Elephant Man). We know that he wore hats. Here is a photo from the Wikipedia article.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

We (Ole and I) were working on the perhaps mistaken assumption that the contraption isn't adjustable so much as "openable," to accommodate a hat whose crown wouldn't go into the flange otherwise, on account of extreme reverse taper or whatever else (embellishments of one sort or another, maybe) that would leave the upper portion of the crown too large to fit through a more typical flange opening.

Pure speculation, of course.

Ah, I see it now. That makes some sense. Also, a specialty hat might not be really a "one-off" to the extent that you would recreate more of the same for the customer. Or maybe even a bunch of them for a particular type of tradesmen such as all the doormen for a particular hotel, etc.



"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

He who must not be named has this oddity listed on eBay, raising similar questions in my mind.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[Hatter4]

This is a picture of a bell crown top hat block and flange. The top of the block is bigger than the bottom so you need a special expandable flange for it. You turn the block over with the hat on it and close the flange around the brim and then work the brim.

 

[tonyb]

Cool.

Is this equipment yours, H4?

 

[tonyb]

Ah, I see it now. That makes some sense. Also, a specialty hat might not be really a "one-off" to the extent that you would recreate more of the same for the customer. Or maybe even a bunch of them for a particular type of tradesmen such as all the doormen for a particular hotel, etc. ...

By "one-off," I meant the flange, and not the hat(s) made with it.

But again, that's pure speculation on my part.

 

[TheDane]

The thought that it's for a topper like Hatter4's is intriguing. The hatters Ally and Maillard were active in the middle of the 1800s (I think their first conformateur is from the early 40s) - but I don't know when their company went out of business. The period could fit quite well with fur toppers, I guess.

The brim doesn't really rhyme on what I understand by "topper". Anyway, there were a lot of transitional styles at that time, so nearly anything is possible. Until somebody comes up with a solution, I think I'll archive "the ding" on my mental top-back shelf

 

[Brad Bowers]

The expandable or openable flange can't be for a silk top hat, as their brims are set on a special board, not a flange, and their curls are done with shackles. The same procedure is used for Derbies, even though they are felt. This type of flange would have to be for a different type of felt hat, perhaps with an odd crown, but not a top hat. I have no other idea of its usage.

Brad

 

[Hatter4]

These pictures and the previous two I posted were taken at the Bollman Hat Factory in Adamstown, PA, where they still use them today for making a wool felt bell crown top hat. Their top hat is very popular with reinactors.