Period Films and Inaccuraces

[rjb1]

Tuco could not have picked a part from here and a part from there (different types of guns) and put together a cartridge revolver, but if the right parts were there he could have assembled one (if he knew how). However, if all the parts needed were there they would probably have already been assembled into a gun. It was actually a fairly complicated process to do the conversion (factory equipment and assembly required, or a *good* gunsmith)).
Colt made a number of cap-and-ball to cartridge conversions in the late 1860's and early 1870's. These went by such names as the Theur and later Richards-Mason conversions for 1860 (Civil War) percussion Colts. Earlier 1849 pocket pistols were also common conversions. Colt had a LOT of parts for those and wanted to sell them as completed guns.
As long as the caliber (diameter) of the bullet is made the same as the round ball it would make no difference in pressure or durability since both (percussion or cartridge) were propelled by black powder. In fact, you could get conical bullets for the original percussion pistols, they were just not as common as the round balls.
It might be of interest that Colt could not make cartridge firearms until 1872 since Smith and Wesson held the Rollin White patent for through-bored cylinders, which was issued in 1855. (17 year patent life in those days).

 

[2jakes]

Thanks to all for clearing this up.

Another myth of westerns is when a cowboy gets shot & calls it a "flesh wound" & still is
able to move around .
In reality...you get shot...wound swells up, body goes into shock , you lose control of body
movements much less think clearly.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The recent Lone Ranger movie is set in 1869 but there's a reference to a Sears & Roebuck watch -- Sears wasn't founded until 1886. Also seen in the movie is a 1930s vintage toy train set. The first electric train sets didn't come out until the 1890s and they were quite crude-looking.

 

[rjb1]

Not being a masochist, I don't plan to see the Lone Ranger (modern version), so I'll ask if in 1869 they were using the typical-cowboy 1873 Winchesters and Colts?
(The fact that Tonto looks like something out of a nightmare doesn't encourage me to see it, either.)

+1 on that "flesh wound" nonsense. Old Western (movie) cowboys were only shot in the arm, and a handkerchief tied around it was all the medical attention they ever needed.

 

[Guttersnipe]

For me, rather than small technical inaccuracies, like tire lug bolt patterns being incorrect for 1931, I'm more bothered by egregious historical liberties. Of the top of my head, some of the biggest offenders are:

- Braveheart (seriously, Game of Thrones is more historically accurate)
- 300
- Patriot (Mel Gibson, again!)
- They Died With Their Boots On
- U-571

 

[Chasseur]

For me, rather than small technical inaccuracies, like tire lug bolt patterns being incorrect for 1931, I'm more bothered by egregious historical liberties. Of the top of my head, some of the biggest offenders are:

- Braveheart (seriously, Game of Thrones is more historically accurate)
- 300
- Patriot (Mel Gibson, again!)
- They Died With Their Boots On
- U-571

I have to agree with you that is one painful collection of historical films (in particular 300 and U-571)... One could add "Santa Fe Trail" to that list as Errol Flynn as Jeb Stuart and Ronald Reagan as George Custer battle against evil abolitionists to maintain the institution of slavery...

 

[rjb1]

I nominate "Gladiator" as one of the worst. When I was teaching history I would show the first big battle scene and then ask the class some questions.
What can we learn from this movie about language in ancient times? Answer: The ancient Romans spoke English with an upper-class British accent. - NO! (I don't have the nerve to suggest that if the Romans were going to speak English with any modern accent it would have to be an Italian one: "Mamma Mia! Thatsa lotsa barbarians!")
Did the Romans actually defeat the Germanic barbarians? - NO! (The Romans lost two entire Legions at the Battle of Teutoberg Forest in 8 AD.)
Do you think it's a good idea to light your arrows before you shoot them so the barbarians can see them coming and get out of the way? - NO!

I tried to make sure that they did not mistake "movie history" for real history.

 

[Fastuni]

Try imagining an university class on Spartan history, where some students take "300" as their (main) source of information. :eusa_doh:
At least the Professor was putting them in place with choice words for this fantasy flick.

 

[esteban68]

Not 100 per cent sure but I reckon in the opening sequence of Gladiator when the Germans do their battle cry bit that the sound is in fact lifted from the sequence in that other historically accurate epic Zulu when the Zulu' s begin their attack proper on the beleaguered British garrison.

 

[tropicalbob]

Something that absolutely ruins a period re-enactment film for me, and that I notice so often I barely mention it anymore, is the use of psychobabble terminology: phrases such as "something to share" (instead of "tell"), "reach out" (call or talk), or describing something as a "challenge" intead of a "problem." People used to say what they meant.

 

[Shangas]

"The Patriot" with Mel Gibson was an interesting film...but I agree. It had several historical inaccuracies. Granted, it wasn't meant to be a "history film" if you know what I mean. But still...

 

[Two Types]

Back in the 1930s the British liked to make low-budget films about the British Empire. This obviously called for 'native types'. The problem was that if they needed someone to play a child in an African village, but were using the River Thames as a stand in for the river Niger, it was difficult to find an African child.

In 'Old Bones of the River' (a comedy based on the Edgar Wallace book 'Sanders of the River') there is a classroom scene. The children are black, and dressed in tribal costumes, but as soon as they start talking they reveal themselves to have strong London accents.

Similarly in 'Sanders of the River' (the version with Paul Robeson) some of the actors playing tribal chiefs struggle to conceal their British accents. And curiously the African-American actress Nina Mae McKinney appeared to put on a British accent rather than attempt an African one.

 

[Matt Crunk]

While not a mistake, but a conscious choice of the director, the inclusion of modern urban music in Quentin Tarantino's 'Inglourious Basterds' completely takes me out of the film. Tarantino is one of my favorite directors, but I wish he would stick to period correct music (or at least something close) for period films.

 

[Fletch]

Music is felt to "date" much more badly than clothing or even hairstyles. If you consider yourself hip and trend-conscious, old music carries a heavy odor of stale archives and stodgy personalities. It is also - importantly for our conglomerate-run media - not cross-promotable, as are the hottest artists of today.

These are the reasons that the only 20s thing left out of Luhrmann's Great Gatsby was the music.

 

[Guttersnipe]

"The Patriot" with Mel Gibson was an interesting film...but I agree. It had several historical inaccuracies. Granted, it wasn't meant to be a "history film" if you know what I mean. But still...

Several inaccuracies? Hmm . . .

 

[Stanley Doble]

Music is felt to "date" much more badly than clothing or even hairstyles. If you consider yourself hip and trend-conscious, old music carries a heavy odor of stale archives and stodgy personalities. It is also - importantly for our conglomerate-run media - not cross-promotable, as are the hottest artists of today.

These are the reasons that the only 20s thing left out of Luhrmann's Great Gatsby was the music.

Really? I thought the only 20s thing in it was the title.

 

[Shangas]

Several inaccuracies? Hmm . . .

If you don't think so, you're welcome to disagree. But there inaccuracies or "dramatic license" or whatever in there. And a fair bit of it.

 

[rjb1]

Mentioning British accents for Romans or Africans reminded me of another movie language problem - WWII movies in which the Germans and Japanese *speak English to each other*. I used to watch those when I was a kid but can't tolerate them at all now.

 

[Guttersnipe]

If you don't think so, you're welcome to disagree. But there inaccuracies or "dramatic license" or whatever in there. And a fair bit of it.

I don't think you caught the sarcasm in my reply. Google "historically inaccurate" movies; The Patriot is on essentially every top 10 list of inaccurate films the Internet has to offer. That film is offensively anachronistic in a number of ways.

 

[The Good]

While not a mistake, but a conscious choice of the director, the inclusion of modern urban music in Quentin Tarantino's 'Inglourious Basterds' completely takes me out of the film. Tarantino is one of my favorite directors, but I wish he would stick to period correct music (or at least something close) for period films.

Modern urban music? Which piece did you mean? I liked the inclusion of Ennio Morricone's music, though, however anachronistic to the '40s it may be. It was supposed to sound somewhat like an Italian western of the '60s and early '70s. Then, more recently, Tarantino finally went and did a real western with more Morricone music, which I'm a fan of.