Pencil Roll Anyone?

[BigSleep]

Was wondering about the "Pencil Roll".

Are hats that have them made with them or is this a style that is applied to them?
If it is "applied" can it then be "un-applied"?

I see many Stetson Royale Deluxes with and without the pencil roll.
Can it be steamed out and flattened into a snap brim?

A question for our more learned members.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

My Homburgs, a Stetson and a Cavanagh, have them, and I think it's integral with the hat. Woudn't be a Homburg without it, anyway.

 

[skillbilly]

I'd like to post a follow up question to this. What exactly is a pencil roll?
Any pics for the uninformed?

grazie

 

[feltfan]

I'd like to post a follow up question to this. What exactly is a pencil roll?
Any pics for the uninformed?

grazie

Just put "pencil roll hat" in Google.

I'm having Art put one on a Stetson 100 right now.
Adds a certain body to a raw edge brim.

 

[DOUGLAS]

It is my understanding that a pencil roll is a very tight curl that rolls into itself and is about the diameter of a pencil. The curls on homburgs and the type of curl that is open is called a shackle curl. The tools used to make the two are different. I have hats with both and I prefer the shackle curl as it will relax over time especially at the front of the brim.

Please correct me if I am not accurate.

 

[BellyTank]

You're on the money, Douglas.

B
T

 

[mthatter]

erased by mt

 

[Pilgrim]

Douglas, I'll add one more kind of curl called a kettle curl. This is a fuller curl put on the sides only. When any of these curls are put on a hat the felt is being shrunk back on itself but usually can be taken out if desired.

That's interesting and encouraging. I occasionally have seen hats I was interested in, but they had a rolled brim and I wasn't sure I could take the roll out - so I didn't bid.

Another critical piece of info added to the inventory.

 

[mthatter]

erased by mt

 

[Pilgrim]

John, I'm sorry you're so far away from here. Next time I drive from Fort Collins up to Eastern WA, I'll try to stop in Bozeman and say howdy! We usually get through there about once a year.

 

[BigSleep]

So, to get back to the original question:

If a pencil/Shackle roll can be put in, can it be steamed or ironed out?

 

[Pilgrim]

Mthatter said above: "When any of these curls are put on a hat the felt is being shrunk back on itself but usually can be taken out if desired."

I take that as a Yes.

 

[tonyb]

I have successfully fedora-ized an old Homburg. (Lest anybody accuse me of sacrilege, know that it came out well, partly because, unlike many Homburgs I've encountered, the edge binding on this one is of equal width top and bottom.) The conversion involved water, a spray bottle, a clean white towel, an ironing board and an iron.

 

[Visigoth]

In another thread, I'm trying to determine whether a vintage Knox is a homburg or a curled fedora (and whether I could uncurl it). Experts please weigh in:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=10364

 

[mthatter]

erased by mt

 

[tonyb]

Incredible is right, John. My goodness, 88 years old (if your customer is right, and I certainly have no reason to doubt it) and still in fine shape. If only it could talk ...

 

[dr greg]

pencil case

At school we used to block our hats with pencils, to get the streamlined look similar to an exaggerated digger's hat

 

[Visigoth]

John, the hat I have -- would you call it a homburg?

And if I take the curl out and snap it down, will it be proper fedora, or some weird hybrid?

 

[feltfan]

I have successfully fedora-ized an old Homburg. (Lest anybody accuse me of sacrilege, know that it came out well, partly because, unlike many Homburgs I've encountered, the edge binding on this one is of equal width top and bottom.)

I'm not sure I follow the comment about the edge binding.
Equal width top and bottom is hardly a requirement of fedoras.

I have more than one fedora with a bound edge that differs
on top and bottom. It was a style offered by more than one
hat maker. Off the top of my head, I have two Caxton fedoras
that are made that way and have the stitching hidden on top
(for the Brad Bowers among us, it appears to have been stitched
on top, folded over, stretched over the edge, and then stitched
through the bottom), but I'm sure I have others with similarly
asymetrical bindings. The stitching was sometimes used as
further decoration in 40s and 50s hats.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

My latest Royal Deluxe Stetson fedora has a bound edge like that. The binding on the upper edge of the brim is much narrower than on the underside, and there's a row of stitching visible on the upper side of the brim inboard of the grosgrain.