PC vs Mac - Apple looks very attractive right now!!

[Dixon Cannon]

... and I've got a little story about it!

Way back in 1976 I was working in Los Angeles when I read an (very small) article in Time or Newsweek about a (very small) company up in Cupertino that was trying to make and market a personal computer (of all things!). I read that that company called itself Apple.

About eight years earlier in London the Beatles had founded their Apple Corps. Ltd. and enlisted the help of a young Greek named Alexis Mardas to run Apple Electronics. His mission was to create a 'wireless' recording studio in Savile Row and develop various electronic devices for the newly formed Apple empire, in what John Lennon called, "manufacturin' and the like."

When I read of Apple Computer in California, I immediately thought of 'Magic Alex' and his "manufacturin'". I wrote to Apple Computer to inquire about their new company, their connection to the Beatles, 'Magic' Alex Mardas and their, so-called 'personal computer'.

The strange thing is, they never wrote back or gave me any information about their company, which I thought strange for a venture just entering the marketplace.

I've often thought about Apple, Inc. and Apple Corps over the last thirty years as I've read about their squabbles and wondered what they must have thought about my early inquiries about their Apple picking! And I've always wondered what ever happened to 'Magic' Alex Mardas and if he ever wondered, "Gee! I wish I'd thought of manufacturin' that!".

-dixon cannon

 

[Twitch]

Anyone contemplating switching to a Mac from a PC should bug a friend with a Mac and ask them to load the software YOU will be using on a regular basis to see if it is going to work. The hardware is only the 1st investment. It's not just about reliability or friendlyness. If you have to replace your expensive programs that's another thing entirely.

 

[Daisy Buchanan]

The only reason people prefer Macs over PC's is because they cant understand how to use a pc. A PC is far superior to a mac in the lower end range of things. The lower end macs are pieces of junk. Nothing can be upgraded because its all locked up tight in there. You people sound like you are advertising for apple. I've had so much bad experience with macs it blows my mind.

heres a review I posted on another site.

I use a Mac, and I know how to use a PC. I worked for and sold PC's for a while, so I know them inside and out.
As for my choice of Mac. I have 2 iBooks and and iMac, and I haven't looked back since.
Recently, I had to use my dad's dell laptop. I couldn't stand it. It was slow and noisy and crashed on my twice. In all the years that I have been using Mac, I have only had one experience in which I had to reboot because a program wasn't loading.
And by the way, anything lower end is a piece of junk. I guess my iBook is considered lower end, and although Mac is proprietary, it is highly upgradeable. There is nothing on the motherboard that is suadered on. I have actually done a few upgrades, by choice, not because they were necessary. These upgrades were so incredibly easy to do that they made me adore my Mac even more....
I love my Mac, I love all the peripherals that it takes. It's a great system. I can write papers, surf the web, make and edit movies, this little machine does it all. I know how to use a PC, I just chose not too, for the ones that I have encountered have been slow and unreliable.
Hi I'm Daisy and I'm a Mac addict!

 

[scotrace]

*raises hand*



LD

Groovy!

We need to get a Virtual fedora Lounge Event put together somehow.

 

[Phil]

I like PC. But I'll make it clear exactly what I like.
I like....
-Winsows XP- very user friendly (screw Vista), very editable, but comes with a nice basis to work from if you're not a techie (why Linux is annoying as well as the MAC OS and even the new Vista....stupid Vista)

-Gaming compatibility- All games run on PC's. Try going to a LAN gaming event with an Apple, you might as well not go. No good games work on Mac and the compatibility lag is huge.

-Hardware upgrades and new cases- Not able to do easily with a Mac unless you buy a whole new computer.

-Multimedia capability- contrary to the Mac-switch commercials, PC's can do music editing, video editing, and a multitude of other applications just fine.

-DOS command- Not available in Mac computers.

Overall, I think that a computer must reflect the user, something Mac doesn't do. You get a cold white slab of computer. With a PC, it's your computer, you controll it. A Mac is like a hippie. It's a free thinker with it's own agenda and it's own practices. A PC is a burecrat with an imagination, it can do really nice artistic things, but it will do what you tell it to do.

 

[scotrace]

Wow. That's all wrong. start to finish, Phil.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I like PC. But I'll make it clear exactly what I like.
I like....
-Winsows XP- very user friendly (screw Vista), very editable, but comes with a nice basis to work from if you're not a techie (why Linux is annoying as well as the MAC OS and even the new Vista....stupid Vista)


-DOS command- Not available in Mac computers.

Overall, I think that a computer must reflect the user, something Mac doesn't do. You get a cold white slab of computer. With a PC, it's your computer, you controll it. A Mac is like a hippie. It's a free thinker with it's own agenda and it's own practices. A PC is a burecrat with an imagination, it can do really nice artistic things, but it will do what you tell it to do.

For the Average user.....DOS is just as difficult and intractable as linux.....so each one is based on a language that average folks will never use or look at....

As to Macs not reflecting the user....thats individual.

And to be honest, Macs do what you tell them to....just like Win boxes do....IF you know what to tell them and how to tell them. Its like talking to your spanish freind in french......it might work part of the time....but you wont get 100% sucesss....but if you speak Spanish....life is great.

Don't mistake a different approach suitable for different people.....as it being a 'free spirited and uncontrollable OS'.....merely because you prefer a different and more rigidly structured system.


Denise
Msc Information Technology

 

[Daisy Buchanan]

Wow. That's all wrong. start to finish, Phil.

Yup, I completely agree with you here Scotrace

My mac does what I want it to do, when I want or need it to. It never fails, never crashes, is really fast. Come to think of it, I can't even remember the last time I shut it down. All of my Mac equipment is top notch. I know PC's inside and out, and I don't like them at all. They are too temperamental and unreliable. When I had one, it always seemed to crash at the most inopportune moments.

I think there is a reason why companies like Dell and Gateway offer such long and extensive warranties, they have to. I have warranties on all my Mac's, just as a safety thing, and in the 7 years I've been using them, I've only had to call tech support once. My router wasn't working, and it turned out it wasn't even Mac's fault, but the cable companies!

 

[Salv]

I thought Phil's poorly though out argument was familiar, and I realised he made pretty much the same points on matei's Making the switch to Mac! thread. For some reason he didn't stick around to argue his case when all his points were refuted on that thread - see Phil's post #47 and my reply #49.

 

[Twitch]

As you mentioned Phil there are no decent entertainment titles that work on Mac. When I wrote for Combatsim.com a lot every combat simulation title and game was PC. So if gaming is a big deal in anyone's life it's PC.

It's been a while since I've seen the inside of a Mac but at the professional level in graphics related to film output for the color printing industry the machines used were as easy as PC to swich out graphics card, CPUs, RAM and such. The personal Macs now I have no idea.

I've run XP for years and have had only about 5 freeze ups in as many years. Any machine including Mac will balk when asked to do too much. We had freeze ups with our Macs even with $3000 graphics cards and beacoup RAM. Nothing serious but it wasn't unknown. Certainly the cost of Mac RAM, CPUs and normal graphics cards is more than PC. But they seem to be compatible longer than PC where people regularly upgrade their systems.

There are some of us who like the computer as a hobby too and enjoy the challenge of fine tuning it. I went through DOS 1.0 up to now and actually had fun with doing things that most would be afraid of doing command-wise. Most people seem a problem or modification in a negative light where some of us enjoy the fun of solving and improving things.[huh]

The whole thing now is, even with Windoze is that they're attempting to make it idiot proof. No one wants to tune their machine with verbiage commands or anything else. They want to plug it in a run it. Mac scores better there.

One thing is in my years of reviewing software titles is the fact that people with virtually identical machines have different little problems with identical software titles. It has to do with fine tuning and interfacing with your machine. Sometimes it has to do with all the TSRs Windoze has running all the danged time. But there are utilities that solve that with 2 keystrokes.

There are ways to edit your memory usage for better performance. I can't imagine a one size fits setup all that tunes a machine for optimum results for all users.

Unix has even more capability than old DOS to create an infinite variety of very specific and detailed commands for the OS like nothing can- Mac or Windoze! It still can be difficult to get PC software to interface with the OS. But Macs emulating Windoze is the same thing. Any time you are attempting to trick an OS and its related hardware to think it is doing something normal when it actually doing something alien it creates problems.

If you are planning to switch to the Mac platform you may have a few thousand bucks in PC software that may not all work. There is a reason they produce separate versions of, say, PhotoShop at $700+ a pop for Mac and PC. Will your $500 dollar Office XP with Frontpage, Excel and Powerpoint work on a Mac? Will your $450 Adobe Acrobat work? How about your $400software for movie editing? And those 50 odd games you have?

You need to address your software situation before changing platforms. Otherwise its like buying $3000 in Snap-On tools in SAE to find your new car is all metric!

 

[Phil]

Thank you Twitch. That is esactly what I'm trying to get at. For people like me, who like to make the computer more personal. I love being able to make the computer I use my very own. I love to play in DOS and configure every little detail. I can't stand Macs. My friends who have Macs are always asking me to fix something on their computer. Normally, if it was on a PC, I could go exactly where I need to, and fix the problem. As my best example, two friends. One with a Mac and the other with a PC.
My friend with the Mac, Angela, accidentally deleted all her pictures, so she called me to see if I could do a deleted file retrival. I said I'd try, but made no promises as to what I could do. I spent a good 5 hours looking around her computer, I couldn't find any way of getting those files back. After a few more hours of searching and yelling at the computer, I gave up and called tech support. When I called tech supprt, they were very rude to me.
"Yeah, whadda you want? No, deleted files are gone for good, there is nothing you or I can do to get them back. Yes I'm sure. Look, I have another call on the line, too bad about your photos."
Now, my friend with the PC, Erica, accidentally formatted one of her 3 hard drives. This particular one had all her music on it. It took me about an hour and a half total to get every single file back using the DOS commands.
For all those who oppose me, I'm not making blind claims. I've dealt with Macs from 3rd to 8th grade. My family owned a mac in 1997, I work with Angela's Mac to this day. I also work with my own PC. I prefer PC's for their user friendliness. If anyone wants me to support or defend a claim I have made, let me know, and I'll tell you exactly what happened for me to reach what I believe.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Who could argue with some one who worked with Macs from 3rd to 8th grade.

I work with both currently. I actually like them both. My MAC however is so much more reliable than my PC, which crashes at least once per day due to the incompatible software. My iBook has never crashed, ever. The lack of integration on the Microsoft operating system astounds me: no uniform commands, no universal drag and drop, and the early reviews of Vista are not encouraging.

Personally, I have been able to customize my Apple to anything I wanted. Criticizing an Apple for not running DOS is like criticizing HD TV because you cannot send Morse Code!

Some of us appreciate the fact that with Secure Empty Trash your files are gone forever. That is security, my friend and the prudent among us back up our files.

 

[Salv]

If anyone wants me to support or defend a claim I have made, let me know, and I'll tell you exactly what happened for me to reach what I believe.

Can you tell us how you tried to, but couldn't, customise the UI on a Mac? What did you try doing to change the startup screen? What else did you try to change, but were unable to?

What happpened when you tried to upgade the RAM, video card, processor or hard drive on a Mac? And which model of Mac was it? Admittedly some consumer models can be quite tricky and PowerPC processors weren't always available for them, but all Pro desktop models are easily upgaded.

How did the Unix Command-line Environment (a.k.a. the Terminal) on a Mac compare to a DOS command line on a PC? Do they do the same job, and if so how is the Terminal inferior?

Regarding the lost photo files on Angela's Mac - if she trashed them then emptied the trash using Empty Trash it might be possible to retrieve the files using a third party app such as Data Rescue - there is a free demo available. Rather than spending 5 hours wandering around a system you don't understand, you could have spent 5 mintues googling for retrieve trashed mac files. But as Hemingway said if she trashed them then emptied the trash using Secure Empty Trash they are gone for good, but that's the point of Secure Empty Trash.

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I use both a Mac and a PC now and I don't really have any preference either way. I read this article yesterday and it made me smile, even though it's completely misinformed. As a "smug" Mac user I especially found the very last sentence amusing. His first comment is funny too! http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

 

[Salv]

I use both a Mac and a PC now and I don't really have any preference either way. I read this article yesterday and it made me smile, even though it's completely misinformed. As a "smug" Mac user I especially found the very last sentence amusing. His first comment is funny too! http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

I liked that article too, but then I like Charlie Brooker anyway. And he's right about the Apple adverts - every time I watch one I cringe. Even having Mitchell and Webb in the UK versions doesn't make them any less cringe-worthy...

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I liked that article too, but then I like Charlie Brooker anyway. And he's right about the Apple adverts - every time I watch one I cringe. Even having Mitchell and Webb in the UK versions doesn't make them any less cringe-worthy...

Ah, see, I love Mitchell and Webb, so I do like the adverts. Well, more than the US ones ones anyway.

 

[Phil]

Jeez Salv, I already have enough essays to write.
First off, I had an iMac. One of the ones with the handle and the built in speakers and he circle mouse. Worst computer I've ever owned and I once owned an eMachine.
I rember going through the setup of the iMac, not too terrible. It was when I had it started up that I started to have some trouble. First, I wanted to change the background. Very simple, right? WRONG! I went into the desktop properties and changed the background to a gijoe image (I was 8 mind you) and clicked ok. It didn't change. I went back into the setup and changed the image back and clicked apply, the image stayed on screen and was there for the rest of the night. I turned off the computer later on and went to sleep. THe next day wen I booted up the computer, it was back to the default background. That's one distinct thing that happened. I know there were some other bugs, but I've forgotten a lot of it.
I rember though that there was some error with the RAM. I don't rember if it was corroupt or something, but it had an error and it needed to be replaced. My parents and I went to Best Buy, bought the exact same RAM, and yes, the package said it was iMac compatable. We tried putting it in and it gave us errors. We went through 7 seperate sticks from different companies and nothing worked. Essentially, we had a pile a circuits that were unsellable. No one would buy it and the warranty said that if we encountered some hardware problem and didn't inform Apple about it, warranty was void. Essentially we had nothing to do but hang it from a tree and hope Johnny Retardseed would come pick it.
As for the Unix Command-line Environment, it seems to me like it's just a little toy for people who want to feel like they're smart. "Ooh, I'm using a command line, I'm so smart, I'm a leet haxor" NO YOU'RE NOT! DOS is an actual command line that works through the computer itself. Your Unix crap is basically typing a mouse command. I have attempted commands that are useable in DOS and didn't do jack squat in Unix. To me, Unix is just another little toy program.

 

[Barry]

:whistling

 

[Nathan Flowers]

lol

:eusa_doh:

 

[Lonn]

toy?

find . -name * | xargs fgrep -l wtf