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Paul's Hat Works

HungaryTom

One Too Many
Messages
1,204
Location
Hungary
Location, location, location

Personally I view the entire thing like this. I am glad to have internet: this is the only way that a Hungarian living in Budapest –me- could get a superfino Panama hat from Montecristi/Ecuador and that’s how I will get a pure beaver felt from Art Fawcett.
Prices? I think with those two value hatters your money is invested in the HAT, not a brand-name or a brick and mortar store at an expensive location.

Since Art Fawcett lives in Oregon he can’t operate with his location next to rich people - he can only compete with his quality.
The same goes for PanamaBob from Indiana. Gus Miller in Cincinatti is also a master hatter but I assume that his neighborhood in Cincinatti isn’t a particularly well-to-do spot of the US. Gary White in NY is somewhat more expensive – NY seems to be more expensive. But I think all of these hatters are masters of their craft: all of them had rich, famous clients, you name it - stars. So they deliver same/similar quality as Paul’s in SF if you like.

If any of those hatters would decide to set up shop next to Paul’s their price would also necessarily skyrocket – for their very same hats. It is our luck that they did not decide to do so.

The expensive location and the proximity of rich clients make Paul's that expensive - not his character flaw.

Yes there are a few vintage Montecristi out in the world that have a few hundred more wpsi than Bob can supply - think here of Sharpetoys or Marc Chevaliers vintage specimens – maybe that 30k hat is one of their peer. Paul's is in the biz since 1912 maybe he has some vintage bigshot toquilla hat body. It is for the aficionado that can’t wait and risk at e-bay but just has the money. Maybe from the US maybe from Japan?-Who knows.
I don’t care. I have a precious superfino Montecristi from Bob, a second is on its way and I am sure that my beaver hat will be also exquisite from Art Fawcett.
Without internet I could only stick to custom rabbit fur felt hats (50 USD) and imported Cuenca (70 USD) in Budapest. And to my Vass RTW shoes which are also comparable to any famous International name – they fetch one a fraction of those prices – while those are also made of Shell Cordovan or the best French Boxcalf. Only it is cheaper to have shoemakers from Hungary or Transylvania working in the outskirts of Budapest than paying some British colleagues in Northampton, etc.

Location, location, location.
 

iammatt

Familiar Face
Messages
88
Location
CA
To be fair, Paul's is hardly in a "high rent" district of San Francisco. I am not sure how he determines his prices, but they are a bit loony.

I was in there recently and saw for $15,000 a panama that was not as nice as what Optimo sells for $2500. I am not sure what that would go for from Panama Bob, but in my admittedly limited experience, the price/quality ratio at Optimo is superior to anybody else with whom I have dealt and nearly all of that is due to the quality which I have found to be superior to other sources. Again, just my opinion.
 

Bebop

Practically Family
Messages
951
Location
Sausalito, California
Paul's is not in the high rent district at all. Relatively nice but not high class. For all I know, he might own the block he is on and has no rent. He must be selling hats in order to keep the lights on.
 

metropd

One Too Many
Messages
1,764
Location
North America
The only hat I would pay $1300 and up when I make $16 dollars an hour would be a silk plush or beaver top hat exactley how I wanted it. Now If I was making $30 an hour I might save up for Paul's fedoras you know beacuse hats are necessities. Every Man hat A right to food, Shelter, and the persuit of a $1300 hat.:eusa_clap
 
L

Laurence

Guest
Help me find Gus and Gary

HungaryTom said:
Personally I view the entire thing like this. I am glad to have internet: this is the only way that a Hungarian living in Budapest –me- could get a superfino Panama hat from Montecristi/Ecuador and that’s how I will get a pure beaver felt from Art Fawcett.
Prices? I think with those two value hatters your money is invested in the HAT, not a brand-name or a brick and mortar store at an expensive location.

Since Art Fawcett lives in Oregon he can’t operate with his location next to rich people - he can only compete with his quality.
The same goes for PanamaBob from Indiana. Gus Miller in Cincinatti is also a master hatter but I assume that his neighborhood in Cincinatti isn’t a particularly well-to-do spot of the US. Gary White in NY is somewhat more expensive – NY seems to be more expensive. But I think all of these hatters are masters of their craft: all of them had rich, famous clients, you name it - stars. So they deliver same/similar quality as Paul’s in SF if you like.

If any of those hatters would decide to set up shop next to Paul’s their price would also necessarily skyrocket – for their very same hats. It is our luck that they did not decide to do so.

The expensive location and the proximity of rich clients make Paul's that expensive - not his character flaw.

Yes there are a few vintage Montecristi out in the world that have a few hundred more wpsi than Bob can supply - think here of Sharpetoys or Marc Chevaliers vintage specimens – maybe that 30k hat is one of their peer. Paul's is in the biz since 1912 maybe he has some vintage bigshot toquilla hat body. It is for the aficionado that can’t wait and risk at e-bay but just has the money. Maybe from the US maybe from Japan?-Who knows.
I don’t care. I have a precious superfino Montecristi from Bob, a second is on its way and I am sure that my beaver hat will be also exquisite from Art Fawcett.
Without internet I could only stick to custom rabbit fur felt hats (50 USD) and imported Cuenca (70 USD) in Budapest. And to my Vass RTW shoes which are also comparable to any famous International name – they fetch one a fraction of those prices – while those are also made of Shell Cordovan or the best French Boxcalf. Only it is cheaper to have shoemakers from Hungary or Transylvania working in the outskirts of Budapest than paying some British colleagues in Northampton, etc.

Location, location, location.
Hungary Tom, you mention two hatters, Gus and Gary, please send links, I can not find them on my own.
 

carter

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,921
Location
Corsicana, TX
Originally posted by Hungary Tom
And to my Vass RTW shoes which are also comparable to any famous International name – they fetch one a fraction of those prices – while those are also made of Shell Cordovan or the best French Boxcalf. Only it is cheaper to have shoemakers from Hungary or Transylvania working in the outskirts of Budapest than paying some British colleagues in Northampton, etc.

:eek:fftopic: Tom, I'm intrigued by your reference to, if I read this correctly, custom shoemakers in or near Budapest. Can you tell us more about them?
This might be a topic that needs a new thread. Thanks, Carter

I also appreciated your comments on Custom Hatters. No knowing anything about Paul's, I have to agree with those who wouldn't/couldn't pay exorbitant prices for hats. After all, most of us wear our hats. I can think of many reasons to justify spending big $$$ but my hat isn't one of them. At his prices, Art Fawcett makes as fine a hat as I expect to ever purchase and I'm happy doing just that. :) Carter
 

HungaryTom

One Too Many
Messages
1,204
Location
Hungary
1500 USD on fedoras?

Why not...but just think for a moment

1600-1800 USD gets you 2 commissioned grade Montecristi panama hats from www.panamas.biz
You know the weave grade which is hardly produced by the weavers any more - it must be commanded extra. It is then woven for a few months after it is finished taking other weeks...In the end you have a couple hundreds working hours of masters weavers, finishers, US master hatters for a few hundred dollars in a single hat. It is not easy to get but it is possible- provided no third party abduction happens.
American Artworks? American Dream? American Beauty? - whatever name you like, but the denominations are true!
It is their peerless beauty that lures Venetian and Parisian clients (homelands of hat-making tradition from over the Atlantic) to buy them from America!

1500 USD plus a few bucks gets you 5 (five) pure beaver felts from Art Fawcett - limited edition, rare colours rare vintage ribbons, fascinating designs, custom made hats etc...
The same amount buys similar quantities and qualities from Gary White, Optimo hats in Chicago and Gus Miller in Cincinatti...

You can get a small All-American custom beaver hat collection...vs one hat

Feel free to decide.

Hungarian shoes tread? I will do my best to start one in the near future - I will not hijack this thread;) .
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Paul's prices are based on smart, hype-based marketing.

-He made sure to get his hats into the movies.
-He made sure to market to a base that's affluent enough not to have to shop around. Tell them you're the industry leader, drop a few names, and they'll believe it - their time and their need for prestige is worth more than their money.
 

Thin Man

New in Town
Messages
17
Location
Fremont, California
I purchased a couple of panamas from Paul's about ten years ago. They were Cuencas in the several hundred dollar range and are nice hats. But I've learned since then that I can get Montecristis of considerably better quality for the same price. For those that reside in the SF Bay Area, check out Fino Fino in Palo Alto. (I hope I didn't break any rules just now.)
 

Undertow

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,126
Location
Des Moines, IA, US
Laurence said:
Is this company worth the money, what could the difference be between this hat and other custom made hats, that are $300.

I think with all the knowledge heaped on this board, as well as all the experiences, recommendations and differing interests, you should have a fairly certain answer regarding $1500 hats. It's along the same lines as this: would you pay $275 at a tourist shop in Italy to get a magnifying glass or would you drop down to Walmart and pay $3.50 for the same thing? Sure, you'll have a swell story to tell but do you really wanna be raked over the coals?

But if you wanna shell out $1500 to get a hat worth $400, hey, send me $1500 - I'll have Art make you a fantastic hat, I'll tip him well, and I'll buy myself a nice cigar to go along with dinner, all on your buck. Then you can tell everybody you spent $1500 on a custom made hat that looks and feels better than anything else you can get your hands on.
 
L

Laurence

Guest
Thanks

HungaryTom said:
Why not...but just think for a moment

1600-1800 USD gets you 2 commissioned grade Montecristi panama hats from www.panamas.biz
You know the weave grade which is hardly produced by the weavers any more - it must be commanded extra. It is then woven for a few months after it is finished taking other weeks...In the end you have a couple hundreds working hours of masters weavers, finishers, US master hatters for a few hundred dollars in a single hat. It is not easy to get but it is possible- provided no third party abduction happens.
American Artworks? American Dream? American Beauty? - whatever name you like, but the denominations are true!
It is their peerless beauty that lures Venetian and Parisian clients (homelands of hat-making tradition from over the Atlantic) to buy them from America!

1500 USD plus a few bucks gets you 5 (five) pure beaver felts from Art Fawcett - limited edition, rare colours rare vintage ribbons, fascinating designs, custom made hats etc...
The same amount buys similar quantities and qualities from Gary White, Optimo hats in Chicago and Gus Miller in Cincinatti...

You can get a small All-American custom beaver hat collection...vs one hat

Feel free to decide.

Hungarian shoes tread? I will do my best to start one in the near future - I will not hijack this thread;) .
Thank you everybody, I just ordered a hat from Vintage Silhouettes. HungaryTom, you had the comment that really helped, "You can get a small All-American custom beaver hat collection...vs one hat"
 

stinker

New in Town
Messages
15
Location
Dallas, Texas
Going to Pauls on Geary

Making my annual hat pilgrimage to San Francisco next week and I'll stop by Paul's... it is always stimulating to see Michael's fine Panamas and talk hats with him. I have been fortunate to visit with him several times over the past 12 years including one time on a Sunday <he's normally closed on Sunday> when he was out on the sidewalk watching contractors replace his glass display windows. So here I am, driving down Geary after a fine Sunday brunch and I end up spending a beautiful, sunny afternoon casually visiting with a master hatter for over two hours. WOW! What a day!

Is he full of himself??? Probably, but, in a pleasant sort of way. Just take some of his BS with a grain of salt. A visit there can be a learning experience and stimulating, none the less. The key is to get him comfortable and get him talking.

He is the sole proprietor and frequently works the counter. Not knowing the hat-quotient of those walking in, he may not open up until you qualify yourself as having knowledge and appreciation of fine hats.

The tight, fine weave, texture and symmetry of the pattern in his $30k Panamas must be seen to be appreciated. Exquisite. I was fortunate to be allowed to handle them and try them on. Breathtaking. $30k for a nice hat is chump-change to the people who buy them. Not me. I would be proud to have his $700 starter model some day.

Woo-Hoo!!! Halloween in San Francisco!
 

stinker

New in Town
Messages
15
Location
Dallas, Texas
Now you've got me excited, Jimmy!

Done a lot of looking around the Dallas area and I had not heard of your shop before, Jimmy. I look forward to meeting you after I return from San Francisco!

Stinker
 

fatwoul

Practically Family
Messages
923
Location
UK
Laurence said:
When people pay $1500, there has to be a difference, what is it.

Gullibility.

Unless the hat is made from the fur taken from a genetically recreated wooly mammoth, has a liner made from Queen Victoria's wedding dress, and has its sweatband embossed with gold leaf, there is no reason for a hat to be $1500 other than for someone to be able to tell his equally-wealthy friends how much his hat cost him.

Remember when I mentioned rich know-nothings?
 

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