Panama Hats

[Neil]

I'm happy to read people's posts on this thread, or the Panama Canal, or the other one, the title of which slips my mind. I like reading everybody's posts, and I like reading PB engaging with people. Doesn't bother me in the least, I actually find it all interesting. (Except for the posts whinging about it).

 

[tinmanzzz]

I'm happy to read people's posts on this thread, or the Panama Canal, or the other one, the title of which slips my mind. I like reading everybody's posts, and I like reading PB engaging with people. Doesn't bother me in the least, I actually find it all interesting. (Except for the posts whinging about it).

PB engages with everyone who isn't buying one of his hats. All other Panama Hat are overpriced or poorly made

 

[WineGuy]

Sorry I created such a stir

Well the last thing I thought I would do when starting the thread was to create such contention between members. Contrary to Lefty's assertion, I did in fact browse through the existing threads looking for a focus on Panama Hats, I also did a search for Panama Hats and still came up with only generic threads, nothing specific to panama Hats. Maybe i did not dig enough, but in the end no one is being forced to follow this thread and it could easily have been allowed to wither away. I do plan to follow the "Panama Canal" thread now that it's been brought to my attention, and would welcome recommendations on other threads as well.

As for Panamabob, he has been a welcome source of information and he made no sales solicitations to me what so ever, I chose to purchase a hat from him in the end after he graciously gave me a good amount of his time in a recent phone conversation, much like Brent Black did last week. Forum members who are also venders are not a negative to me if they make their expertise available to the rest of the community.

 

[Lefty]

No shot at you was intended.

The repetitive thread issue simply creates problems with anyone seeking information in the future, when this thread does move down the list. I know that this site isn't a wiki, but I'm guessing that fewer than 20 hat threads are started per day, and all but 1 or 2 of them either repeat information or further develop information contained in another thread. So, instead of posting a newly ebay purchased straw Cavanagh homburg in a new thread, the owner could post it in at least 6 different threads to help develop information that's already here (the ebay, what hat are you wearing, new hats, panama canal, homburg nation, & Cavanagh threads). People interested in homburgs learn that Cavanagh made them in straw, people interested in panamas learn that the homburg style is an option, etc.

With so few threads started each day, new, clearly repetitive threads could easily be merged (by bartenders) into existing threads. The member could then decide whether to cross-post the thoughts into other threads.

 

[cookie]

You are right Lefty but the difficulties of retrieving information on the Lounge compared to say the sophisticated system on styleforum.net is a constant source of grief and creates the habit of starting new and unnecessary threads.

 

[carter]

fftopic:
I'd like to congratulate Neil for adding a new word, "whinging", to the lexicon. I take it to mean "Whining while winging it" or, perhaps, "Winging it while whining".
At any rate, 'whine-ging', is now safely ensconced upon the page.

 

[Andykev]

Ad Nauseam

The repetitive thread issue simply creates problems with anyone seeking information in the future, when this thread does move down the list.

With so few threads started each day, new, clearly repetitive threads could easily be merged (by bartenders) into existing threads.

Since I am coming up on 6 years of being on the Lounge, I know about repetitive posts. But, my take on this is:

1. The existing search (advanced) will pull up a LOT of topics based upon key words of your choice.

2. Many new members are happy to have found the Lounge. They should be encouraged to post, even if the same topic was covered last week, month, year, or 6 years ago.

3. You can easily skip any thread you find boring, repetitive, or dull. Right click mouse *poof*.

4. I am NOT going to spend my remaining years going through YEARS of posts here on the LOUNGE just to "combine them" for anyone's convenience.

5. Lastly, I KNOW the same "hat songs" are played over and over on our "radio" here in this section. You may be sick of hearing the song, again and again. You may have visited Disneyland a hundred times, but look over there: it is a small child who is experiencing the magic for the first time. It should be a happy experience.


And boys....PLEASE keep your personal feelings about your fellow members to yourselves. This is a civilized joint. Thanks.

 

[Panamabob]

PB engages with everyone who isn't buying one of his hats. All other Panama Hat are overpriced or poorly made

This is so untrue. I never say anything is poorly made. I have pointed out when things just don't add up. I do believe that my fellow members (brothers) should not be gouged. I believe that the weavers and other people shouldn't be taken advantage of. Take a trip to see the weavers and perhaps you'd understand. Perhaps you wouldn't. If you think I'm getting rich off of lounge members, then you are nuts.

 

[Neil]

With regard to Tinmanzz’s posting:

I have read an awful lot of Panama Bob postings on this lounge, on this thread and elsewhere, and I have never once seen him disparage someone’s else’s product.
In fact, I believe he had complimentary words to say about a Brent Black fedora on one thread, and Robert and Brent Black are known to compete fairly fiercely. Furthermore, I have seen Robert say several times on this lounge that Graham Thompson at Optimo makes a hell of a fine Montecristi. (Having one myself, I concur wholeheartedly).
I have, however, seen Robert mock, express disbelief about, scorn, rebut, point a finger at, and persistently question people who assert that his much-higher-priced competitors offer a much-higher-class of hat than he does.
Having purchased from both Robert and his competitors, I have come to a fairly simple conclusion.
If you are a purist, and have heaps of cash, and want quick gratification, and demand not just a fine weave count but close to flawless consistency, and highly polished, expensive websites from which to browse, PB is not your man. His competitors (as he has also acknowledged) snap up the very best hats in Montecristi and environs and market them very well, marking up to what the market will bear.
If, however, you can wait a few months and are simply looking for a fine hat, PB is your man. If you are looking for value for dollar, PB is definitely your man. My PB purchases have ranged from a $45 beach hat to a 1200 wpsi fino, and all have been excellent hats.
Furthermore, PB has always – always – assured me that if for any reason I do not like what he sends, I can ship it back (cost about $13) and he will refund my money in full.
I’ve never had any reason to take advantage of that offer, but it is comforting. Given all that, I tend to regard the postings that unload on Robert as whinging. (Carter: It’s an old British army term).
And one more thing: Anyone who thinks he can match a PB hat by going to a retailer and buying a brand name like Stetson or Christy’s would believe that thunder curdles milk.
I am delighted that the lounge introduced me to Robert. And I’m glad he’s here.

 

[Lefty]

4. I am NOT going to spend my remaining years going through YEARS of posts here on the LOUNGE just to "combine them" for anyone's convenience.

There's no need to fix yesterday and there's no reason not to make today better.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Since I am coming up on 6 years of being on the Lounge, I know about repetitive posts. But, my take on this is:

1. The existing search (advanced) will pull up a LOT of topics based upon key words of your choice.

2. Many new members are happy to have found the Lounge. They should be encouraged to post, even if the same topic was covered last week, month, year, or 6 years ago.

3. You can easily skip any thread you find boring, repetitive, or dull. Right click mouse *poof*.

And boys....PLEASE keep your personal feelings about your fellow members to yourselves. This is a civilized joint. Thanks.

Well, I'm new to the FL...say, 3 months. It's just one man's opinion...but I guess it's at least TWO men's opinion, because I support 100% what AndyKev says. I don't mind hearing different opinions....that's how we learn and gain knowledge to make our own judgements....but it is so much more pleasant when conducted in a gentlemanly fashion. One of the....ummm...combatants here has done so, IMHO, one has not...I think I'm already learning something.

"Skeet"

 

[carter]

...
If, however, you can wait a few months and are simply looking for a fine hat, PB is your man. If you are looking for value for dollar, PB is definitely your man. My PB purchases have ranged from a $45 beach hat to a 1200 wpsi fino, and all have been excellent hats.
Furthermore, PB has always – always – assured me that if for any reason I do not like what he sends, I can ship it back (cost about $13) and he will refund my money in full.
I’ve never had any reason to take advantage of that offer, but it is comforting. Given all that, I tend to regard the postings that unload on Robert as whinging. (Carter: It’s an old British army term).
...

I agree with most of what Neil has posted.

However, I must point out that one has recourse in buying a very nice Panama, in multiple grades, from at least one other vendor that is not extravagantly priced. I have hats from both PanamaBob and another vendor that are very comparable in both quality and price. I have been happy with both.

My point is that there are more choices [than have been presented] to buyers who will do their homework.

Neil, Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction regarding whinging.

whinging - 2 dictionary results
–verb (used without object), whinged, whinging. British and Australian Informal. to complain; whine.
Origin:
bef. 1150; dial. (Scots, N England), earlier Scots quhynge, OE hwinsian (not recorded in ME); c. OHG winsōn (G winseln); deriv. of Gmc base of whine

Related forms:
whinger, noun

 

[Chinaski]

I'm pleased to hear the bartenders replies to the topic of starting threads where one already exists. It seems they are encouraging of new posters, like myself, and are not in the business of pedantically keeping threads segregated.

FL seems to be as much a conversational forum as a resource for hats. If you want everyone to just add to existing threads, well, it's probably already been said so go look it up in the archives. Let's just all stop posting.

By the way, as a newbie, not being critical, but the search function is not the most advanced. If anyone knows how to search a phrase rather than the individual words in the phrase, please let me know. And thanks!

 

[Neil]

So, Wineguy . . . .

Did you get your money back?

 

[WineGuy]

We'll See

Hi Neil, Ultrafino just signed for the hat a few minutes ago (they are in WA) so the clock is ticking now. I'm not worried about it because they sent an email promising a full unconditional refund and I have the backing of PayPal if they don't. Additionally, the threat of negative feedback on ebay should keep them at their word.

In the mean time I'm expecting a hat from PanamaBob soon and expect I'll like it more than the Ultrafino. As I said earlier, if the Ultrafino was a $30 or $40 hat I just would have kept it, but it was obviously nowhere near the quality level they promised.

 

[WineGuy]

Refund update

So Neil, I got an email from Ultrafino yesterday stating that they will process a refund in two to three weeks, I responded by telling them that if a refund was not received by Tuesday I would post negative feedback on ebay and then start a claim with PayPal...the refund posted to my PayPal account this afternoon.

 

[jpbales]

that sounds perfectly fair- there's absolutely no reason why a refund should take 2-3 weeks. Having sold stuff over e-bay using PayPal myself, that's just absurd. They just wanted to take advantage of you and use your money.

One last thought about the whole "post on old threads" thing- if you want us to use the mainstream threads, just make them sticky. Then you don't have to use the poor search engine and browse through pages of search results that don't even come up with the obvious threads- which I have experienced many times. And it will be obvious to new comers where to post. My two cents.

So Neil, I got an email from Ultrafino yesterday stating that they will process a refund in two to three weeks, I responded by telling them that if a refund was not received by Tuesday I would post negative feedback on ebay and then start a claim with PayPal...the refund posted to my PayPal account this afternoon.

 

[Neil]

Good consumerism. Complaining well is an art. Got the PB yet?
(Although I must say, with all these people finding 10,000-wpsi treasures on EBay, my collection looks suddenly coarse.)

 

[Panamabob]

I sent him one, too big (my mistake!), so we're making another.

 

[scotrace]

Two Searches, Nine Seconds

Threads with "Panama" in the title: 252
Threads with "Montecristi" in the title: 74

The majority seem to be repetitive and combinable.

Everyone gripes about the Search feature at The Fedora Lounge. Scattered information does not make for productive searches.