Panama Hat Thread

[Carlisle Blues]

This is his return policy....



No Returns Accepted

 

[Panamabob]

My ebay return policy is the same. I guarantee you'll get the hat that you won the bid on. If I make a mistake, I pay for it. I even do this on the website. Once you answer about 40-50 emails, spend hours on a custom hat, and send what the customer ordered, the contract is complete in my book.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

My return policy is the same. I guarantee you'll get the hat that you ordered. If I make a mistake, I pay for it. I even do this on the website. Once you answer about 40-50 emails, spend hours on a custom hat, and send what the customer ordered, the contract is complete in my book.

Bob the difference is that you have a very very positive history here and an excellent reputation.


Perhaps with time premierpanamahats will garner the same reputation once he gets known on The Fedora Lounge.

 

[Panamabob]

I've got some detractors here, too, so don't go thinking it's all peaches and cream. These hats are hand made items and there are a lot of perfectionists here and in the world in general.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I've got some detractors here, too, so don't go thinking it's all peaches and cream. These hats are hand made items and there are a lot of perfectionists here and in the world in general.

I am very well aware of your "detractors" lol However, I trust my judgment. Further, "Hand Made" connotes ... not perfect; more like a work art of. Human touch carries imperfections.

If I go into buying a Montecristi with that attitude I will be a very happy customer, if not then I should have bought a plastic hat.

 

[Panamabob]

I took a day off and I'm NOT supposed to be on the computer!fftopic:

 

[daizawaguy]

Last years hat, but better photos. My classic PanamaBob/Art Fawcett panama, 1 7/8" brim

 

[winston]

^ Looks good. I think I will end up getting a brim on the narrower side. Could you tell me the fineness specs for that hat? It would really help me decide what grade I should go for.

 

[daizawaguy]

You have caught me there - I mean I guess I put a ruler against it, count and multiply by the same number - think I get 19....but I believe there is more to enjoyment in the hat than a number....any thoughts anyone??!!

 

[winston]

Oh, there's certainly more to a hat than weave count, but I want to know what various grades actually look like before I decide how high I should go, and your photos are good enough to make a judgement from.
It's got to be more than 19.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

You have caught me there - I mean I guess I put a ruler against it, count and multiply by the same number - think I get 19....but I believe there is more to enjoyment in the hat than a number....any thoughts anyone??!!

Of course there is!!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap When I am driving my little tractor around I do not wear my Montecristi......I wear a beater that was made specifically to drive a tractor in.

When I go out for drinks then my Montecristi.

I will be down in Florida in a suit in a coupe of weeks ....no Montecristi just my Cuenca. If it gets wet, oh well.

My point is: The better grades do not get as much "action" as my lower grades because of the wear and tear factor.

 

[Panamabob]

Does anyone have experience with the ebay seller premierpanamahats? Their hats look pretty decent. These photos are from a current auction, so I'm not going to post a link, but this hat starts at $95 with a BIN of $165. I'm not planning to buy it, I'm just looking for opinions.

Hey, it sold! Must have have been the finishing on it!

 

[HungaryTom]

Oh, and HT, thanks for helping us focus on the hats. I didn't answer all your questions. No, the fedora pictured is not the one advertised by Brent as the 5 month hat. Mine is reported to have been a 3-4 month hat. I think the 5 month hat is actually quite a bit more finely woven. Good question, though, whether something like that would ever have been a commercially viable undertaking. I don't think that one is for sale, but I'm not entirely sure.

The info is finally there about the 5 months hat:
http://brentblack.com/pages/best_06.html
Making a 8-9-12 months hat would mean that the weaver has to do it over 2 dry seasons (2 years) since precision work with even finer fibers can be done when it is dry.

Removing the best weaver from moneymaking i.e. weaving his standard hats for 2 seasons is too much (existentially risky) both for the artist and his dealer. Such undertaking is only possible if it is commissioned and paid in advance. By the Client. Who is ready to wait two dry seasons. Maybe once upon a time in a distant galaxy...

Julius II urging Buonarotti to finally finish the Sistine frescos comes in mind.

 

[TES]

As to commercial viability of really finely woven hats, I think you've identified something I haven't thought about yet, as we think of how good these things could really have been. Seems to me you have 3 issues: 1) the limits of the person weaving the hat; 2) the limits of the material; and 3) ( now that you've chimed in on this) time. I'm not sure that No. 3 isn't at least as important as those other components for reasons that you mention. A virtuoso could not weave more than two ( maybe ) hats a year at levels suggested by the lore about how much better they may have been fifty years ago. Sr. Espinal must be really good at it, and I bet we could all agree on that, but now we're getting a better idea about what the limit may have been, I think, even assuming there were far more virtuosi in, say, 1920. Not too many more, I bet.

I think, without little more than surmise from what I hear, that surely there are no more than 15 -20 hats a year that might be woven to more than, say, 1200 wpsi, and done so well. Bob might know better, don't know. But among those that are well woven and finer than something like even 1800-2000, it's hard to imagine there could possibly be more than a small handful.

Of course, as is so often pointed out, particularly during heated discussions about the Montecristi on this site, it really isn't math, it really is art, they all differ. My favorite Panamas are not necessarily the finest woven or the most expensive.

As you say, you can't hurry Michaelangelo.

 

[Panamabob]

1200 is not as scarce as you think. Yes, several guys go in and swoop them up to make them scarce, but if you want, you can go down and get 20-30 every few weeks. There are other villages that weave, not just pile.

 

[TES]

Bob, no kidding, you think you could swipe as many as 200-300 hats like that in a year ? Good ones ? Pile, I recognize, would be the best place to go, but you think you get just as good elsewhere ? I'm just learning.

 

[Panamabob]

lol

 

[TES]

I'm guessing the happy smiley face thing means that you could do that? How much would we have to pay to get all of them? Are you selling that many? If so, that certainly sheds some light on the predatory pricing of your competitors. If those aren't all being purchased by someone, on the other hand, what happens to them? Sure sounds like a lot of wonderful hats.

What about the hats at 2000wpsi and above, what do you estimate in that range in a given year ? I thought I'd read elsewhere on the forum where you'd never seen them before, but that may be some time back, by now? Maybe things in your view are actually improving, in terms of production, or maybe we were all mislead about the rarity of the things?

 

[AlanC]

New Art Fawcett Montecristi:

Group shot of my VS blocked Montecristis:

 

[jonbuilder]

New Art Fawcett Montecristi:

Group shot of my VS blocked Montecristis:

alan your hats are gems, Art certainly knows his bussiness