Panama Hat Thread

[Boomerang]

Well the consumers’ affairs centre were a big help and got me in contact with the credit card people. I still have to give panamahatmall 2-3 more weeks to reply, but I’m in the system now.

Sounds like the most progress you've seen since you placed the order in early March. I feel your pain and encourage your persistence.

 

[Tukwila]

That's nuts. I can file a claim on the credit card website to have a charge removed. It's the same site where i pay my bill.

 

[tropicalbob]

Well the consumers’ affairs centre were a big help and got me in contact with the credit card people. I still have to give panamahatmall 2-3 more weeks to reply, but I’m in the system now.

I've been following this thread and hoping for two results: that you get reimbursed in full and that these bastards get enough bad publicity it puts them out of business. As so often happens these days, something goes wrong on the shipping/communication side and the seller is faced with the choice of truly standing by their word to their customer or not, and in this case the seller's business ethics are found wanting. Anyone who's been following the business of Panama for the last several years has seen this sort of thing over and over again. I especially think of what they did to Art Fawcett, which may or may not be the same people but stinks in exactly the same way. All the best to you.

 

[The Shoe]

That's nuts. I can file a claim on the credit card website to have a charge removed. It's the same site where i pay my bill.

The whole credit card system is different over here. You don’t get your bill and pay it. It’s automatically transferred from your bank account on the due date. You decide at the point of sale whether you’ll pay in full or over (I believe) 36 months. Since I always pay in full, it’s actually usually pretty convenient for me.
But as for chargeback, there is zero information on the website. The regular bank staff have never heard of it and other Japanese websites just said things like apply to the bank/credit card company, which turned out to be much easier said than done.

 

[The Shoe]

I've been following this thread and hoping for two results: that you get reimbursed in full and that these bastards get enough bad publicity it puts them out of business. As so often happens these days, something goes wrong on the shipping/communication side and the seller is faced with the choice of truly standing by their word to their customer or not, and in this case the seller's business ethics are found wanting. Anyone who's been following the business of Panama for the last several years has seen this sort of thing over and over again. I especially think of what they did to Art Fawcett, which may or may not be the same people but stinks in exactly the same way. All the best to you.

Thanks for that, Bob.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I held off on saying much on here and initially didn’t name the company when I first posted (in another thread) that I was having problems with appalling customer service. But every day they failed to respond to my last two emails pushed me closer to (and finally over) the edge.
It’s a fine line, though, isn’t it. If I had ordered a few days earlier, I would have beaten the postage restrictions and probably be sitting here singing their praises. But as you say, it’s when things don’t go smoothly that you see what a company is all about. I’ve dealt with companies before that would have apologised for the problems and footed the FedEx bill themselves.

 

[The Shoe]

I've been following this thread and hoping for two results: that you get reimbursed in full and that these bastards get enough bad publicity it puts them out of business. As so often happens these days, something goes wrong on the shipping/communication side and the seller is faced with the choice of truly standing by their word to their customer or not, and in this case the seller's business ethics are found wanting. Anyone who's been following the business of Panama for the last several years has seen this sort of thing over and over again. I especially think of what they did to Art Fawcett, which may or may not be the same people but stinks in exactly the same way. All the best to you.

BTW what happened to Art Fawcett?

 

[Bill Hughes]

BTW what happened to Art Fawcett?

He has retired. David Gibson (who was Art's apprentice) now has his shop.

 

[The Shoe]

He has retired. David Gibson (who was Art's apprentice) now has his shop.

That’s not what I meant. @tropicalbob said some Panama hat people/Ecuadorians did something underhanded to him. I was wondering what it was.

 

[Tukwila]

That’s not what I meant. @tropicalbob said some Panama hat people/Ecuadorians did something underhanded to him. I was wondering what it was.

Art put in an order for a bunch of straw hat bodies and they jerked Art around for awhile, then finally accused Art of being Panama Bob and said he owed them a bunch of money, etc, etc, and basically stole about, IIRC, $1100 from Art.

I picked up a bunch of hat bodies from Cuenca one year when we went to visit family, and Art bought almost everything I had. I kept a couple 400 wpsi bodies for myself. Art tried to pay me in advance and I said there was no way I was going to take his money until I had them here in the US and boxed up, ready to ship.

When Panama Bob got ripped off the 2nd time, it was just too much for him to cover, but then that left a bunch of other people without hats or hat bodies, too. I wasn't going to use that failed business model with people I consider friends.

Mike Miller has a pretty good source now in Cuenca and he was sharing with Art for awhile before Art retired. If you're looking for something, you might contact Mike at NW Hat Co.and see what he can come up with. I know @Bill Hughes just got a real cool, unique piece from Mike.

No telling when we'll be able to make it back to Ecuador with this covid 19 and all. Maybe next year sometime.

 

[Visigoth]

Question: has anyone ever experienced this? The Equal Earth hat seems to incorporate two kinds of weave: I've looked closely, and it seems to me that you see BOTH llano and brisa weaves, in alternating rings. The outer edge of the brim is llano, then there's a ring of brisa, then the side of the crown is llano, and the top is brisa. Is that at all common?

 

[Tukwila]

Yes, it's fairly common.

 

[Visigoth]

Is it a sign of quality, or the opposite? It was just pointed out to me by Mr. Enzo that the hatband says "Montecristi" — does that seem accurate, judging from the photo? (I'd assumed Cuenca at this price.)

 

[Robert Heyer]

My Brooks Brothers vintage

.

 

[Tukwila]

Is it a sign of quality, or the opposite? It was just pointed out to me by Mr. Enzo that the hatband says "Montecristi" — does that seem accurate, judging from the photo? (I'd assumed Cuenca at this price.)

I'd need to see more of the hat to tell.

Look, MC v. Cuenca... you can get cheap, or super fine, hats from either place. Price per the amount of evenly woven weaves per square inch (WPSI) is where it's at for me (or a great semi-calado, or open weave pattern). Now if you want a super super duper fino from MC (Pile, to be more correct) for $10,000.... yeah, you'll not find that in Cuenca. But for a hat up to $1,000 or $1,500 you can find those in either place.

When I brought back a nice hat body from Cuenca, 400 WPSI, Mike Miller at NW Hat Co emailed me immediately and asked where I got it because it was quite a bit nicer than his personal MC. In the back rooms and semi-private show rooms of the major hat stores in Cuenca you can find these gems.

IMO, it's more to do with the personal weaver than the place where you buy the hat. Maybe the hat was made in MC. Maybe not. I have seen hundreds of hats being sold on ebay and amazon that claim to be MC hats and they are not. I have seen hats at local markets in Ecuador being sold as MC, and some are clearly cheaper Cuenca hats... and some are "seconds" with flaws. I got a couple nice 2nds for $17/ea at a market where they were asking $40. I gave them to friends when we got home and they wear them to church.

The older vintage hats? I believe what I see on the sweatband or branded into the straw. So, more than likely, your hat is from MC if that's what it says on the sweatband. But from your pic it doesn't look like the hat is a super fine weave, either. So value should be less than $100-$150, IMO.

Brand name can add to value, too. Ecuadorian Super Natural hats demand a premium in my experience, as can old Stetsons, Knox, Dobbs, etc.....

 

[Tukwila]

This is the first hat I ever bought in Ecuador. IIRC, it was $25 at a scary market my wife would only take me to with a bunch of family there surrounding me, lol... It's marked size 63cm, which is totally off. It's more like 59.5 cm in size. I keep meaning to take it to Mike Miller and have him reblock it and put on a new ribbon. Sometimes I actually prefer the cloth sweatband and will leave this one as-is. It makes the hat lighter and on warm days you're less likely to start sweating than if you had leather pasted against your forehead. Now, when it's really hot and you're sweating anyway, leather is preferable because it protects the straw from your salty sweat better than plain cloth or grosgrain.

 

[Visigoth]

The older vintage hats? I believe what I see on the sweatband or branded into the straw. So, more than likely, your hat is from MC if that's what it says on the sweatband. But from your pic it doesn't look like the hat is a super fine weave, either. So value should be less than $100-$150, IMO.

Yes, this was an inexpensive hat. Not vintage. As I pointed out above, it was 55 euro, shipped from Amazon. Seems as if the price was about right, or a bit low.

 

[Tukwila]

Yes, this was an inexpensive hat. Not vintage. As I pointed out above, it was 55 euro, shipped from Amazon. Seems as if the price was about right, or a bit low.

Sorry, I forgot that part or missed it with the first read through... too many things running through this old brain I guess. $55 does sound like a decent price to me. Good job. Keep in mind that prices at a market buying 2nds like I posted about is for someone on the ground in Ecuador... not taking into account shipping and other expenses and the cost of a factory first vs. a factory second. So yeah, $55 is a good buy.

Enjoy the hat! Your posts made me go pull my straws out and wear my first Panama hat again for a few hours. I forgot how much I like this hat.

 

[Guardian Enzo]

I'd need to see more of the hat to tell.

Look, MC v. Cuenca... you can get cheap, or super fine, hats from either place. Price per the amount of evenly woven weaves per square inch (WPSI) is where it's at for me (or a great semi-calado, or open weave pattern). Now if you want a super super duper fino from MC (Pile, to be more correct) for $10,000.... yeah, you'll not find that in Cuenca. But for a hat up to $1,000 or $1,500 you can find those in either place.

When I brought back a nice hat body from Cuenca, 400 WPSI, Mike Miller at NW Hat Co emailed me immediately and asked where I got it because it was quite a bit nicer than his personal MC. In the back rooms and semi-private show rooms of the major hat stores in Cuenca you can find these gems.

IMO, it's more to do with the personal weaver than the place where you buy the hat. Maybe the hat was made in MC. Maybe not. I have seen hundreds of hats being sold on ebay and amazon that claim to be MC hats and they are not. I have seen hats at local markets in Ecuador being sold as MC, and some are clearly cheaper Cuenca hats... and some are "seconds" with flaws. I got a couple nice 2nds for $17/ea at a market where they were asking $40. I gave them to friends when we got home and they wear them to church.

The older vintage hats? I believe what I see on the sweatband or branded into the straw. So, more than likely, your hat is from MC if that's what it says on the sweatband. But from your pic it doesn't look like the hat is a super fine weave, either. So value should be less than $100-$150, IMO.

Brand name can add to value, too. Ecuadorian Super Natural hats demand a premium in my experience, as can old Stetsons, Knox, Dobbs, etc.....

Tukwila, are we still at the point where "What's the best value in a $100 Panama?" is a meaningless question? If you want something better than an entry-level Cuenca, you pretty much have to look at a Montecristi at $200 and up?

 

[Tukwila]

You know, there are so many places out there. I like what Mike at NW Hats does with his Panama hats.... blocked in a style you see in vintage fedoras, with a leather sweatband and a fancy ribbon treatment. But I think most of his start closer to $185 or thereabout for a grade 8 Panama.

I have heard several people say good things about Panama Hats Direct and for $100 I'd say you'd be hard pressed to get a better hat.

There are other places I've seen on Instagram that have some nice stuff, and there's a guy from Ecuador that posts here once on awhile you can check with. I have not done business with them but they all seem more reputable than most of the places I see on ebay or amazon.

I've talked to this guy about a $750 MC recently:

https://montecuadorhats.com/

I keep trying to get in with some actual weavers in Cuenca, but family commitments often use up my time when we visit there.

There is a shop not far from Homero Ortega in Cuenca that had some nice hats, but they wouldn't deal with me and instead gave me a number of their US distributor in FL... which I checked out and found wanting, to be honest, so I never did business with them.

Last time I bought a hat straight from Ecuador, it was shipped via DHL and was $40 to ship the one hat.

 

[Guardian Enzo]

Thanks much. Ever hear any feedback on La Marqueza or Ecualama?

I've talked to this guy about a $750 MC recently:

https://montecuadorhats.com/

Those don't look bad at all, and his lower-grade Montecristis are quite reasonable. You don't know what grade is in the photos, of course...