Panama Hat articles from the web

[HungaryTom]

This is really comprehensive

Check this out.

http://www.american.edu/TED/panamahat.htm

Some additional features on the panama hat raw material. Botany stuff.
Dated April 2000.

http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/botany/botany_map/articles/article_18.html

I hope this gives more aspects.

Thx for the visitors.

 

[HungaryTom]

Ethnology connection of Montecristis...Manabi province

Faces of Manabi locals, especially young girls resembling the beauties of Tahiti painted by Gaugin…See the girl on the first photo embedded in the text?

http://www.eilecuador.org/paginas/people.php?PHPSESSID=8b55f3c2032ca5d8a7b58daeb85f7191

[/LIST]The (weaving) culture seems to originate from somewhere in Polynesia…
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0210/field_photo4.html

Religious worship...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_mythology

"Stories about a trickster, Māui, are widely known, as are those about a beautiful goddess/ancestress Hina or Sina who shakes her barkcloth to make lightning, provides fish and sharks to fishermen, brings weaving techniques and sails her boat to the moon."

Its crazy...one day ago I put up these speculations and with a few clicks the internet can bring any answer..with photos...Genial.

 

[HungaryTom]

Closing words

There are still quite a few articles that repeat how rare and endangered Panama hats are…With an annual output of 1 million Cuenca hats this is not true. What is true Montecristi finos and superfinos are endangered...and how many famous people did wear them…I will not list these...partly since they are either too short, several years old or their full content is available against payment.
If you want spend money: there are books available on the topic.
I mention only the reference book Panama: A Legendary Hat By: Martine Buchet.

Brent Black said that he plans to make a photo book…Panamabob plans to prepare a documentary film with a professional…I sincerely hope that both projects come true!

I hope from what is featured & discussed here you could get a more detailed info. I tried to give some think starters and find some answers. Besides I didn’t want to talk only about economics but tried to highlight some other aspects.

You can also find a lot of Panama hat information on commercial websites. Visit them. This credit to vendors is merited even if you don’t purchase. Panamabob is one of them. He is also special in his way: half seller half missionary with his school project and child fund. Luckily his prices are also special; they are affordable, which is special in the Montecristi fino special market.
PB openly refers to his competitors webpages too, when being asked. Some websites have articles some not. Reason: some sellers co-operate with journalists and some vendors don’t focus on that so much. This doesn't tell anything about the quality of their merchandise.

Knowledge is power. Arm yourself with that and take your time before you purchase. It is worth doing. I hope this thread could help in this a little.

And once more thank you again for contributing or viewing.

 

[Panamabob]

Panamabob plans to prepare a documentary film with a professional…

Actually, we're donating a portion of all sales to the documentary maker. I'm writing a grant that will allow me to follow a hat from beginning to end and that will be a photo essay.

 

[Panamabob]

Here's a sad story about a man (a face you'll see all over some websites!) and his death.

http://www.montecristi.gov.ec/noticiasleer.php?id=41


This says it all (my interpretations/translation):

“En la funeraria nos dieron facilidades de pagarlo en tres meses, porque nosotros no contamos con los recursos económicos para solventar el costo de la caja”, relató Julia Mero.

"The funeral home is allowing us to make payments for three months because we don't have the money available to pay the cost of the coffin," said Julia Mero
Ironías de la vida, porque don Fausto Mero confeccionó sombreros finos, cuyos precios son elevados, mientras que lo que recibía apenas le sirvió para educar a sus seis hijos.

The ironies of life, because Mister Fausto Mero made fine hats, with very high prices (on the end side), and what he received paid only for the education of his children

Don Fausto nació el 10 de agosto de 1910, tuvo seis hijos, 36 mietos, 24 bisnietos y 2 tataranietos. Su imagen fue difundida a nivel mundial, pero la retribución fue mínima, al punto que la pobreza y sus recuerdos, eran lo que lo acompañaron hasta la última morada. Por cierto, se llevó a la eternidad su cuerpo y su infaltable sombrero.

Mister Fausta was born 8-10-1910, had six kids, 36 grandkids, 24 great grandkids, and 2 great-great grandkids. His image was spread around the world, but the payment (reward) was minimal, to the point that the poverty and the resources were the only things that he took to his death (the last purple?) For certain, he's taken his body and his impressionable (something that you shouldn't miss seeing) hats.

 

[Davidson]

I have some specific questions, from the perspective of a potential buyer of one or more Montecristi hats, who may like to see the maximum income go to the weaver:

1. Is making very fine ("fino fino" and up) hats harder (require more skill) or does it just take longer?

2. Do very fine Montecristis last for years, given regular wear and care? What destroys them?

3. What is the "sweet spot" where the very skilled weaver makes the most money for his time - 300 wpi, 500 wpi, 700 wpi, 1000+?

4. Can a lot of weavers make good 300 or 500 wpi hats? Is it easy to learn? (Google's translation of the article said the deceased taught two Frenchmen in 3 months...)

5. Does it take special skills to trim and finish the brim edge of very fine Montecristi hats also?

6. Are there specific identified weavers or families with high skill levels to whom work can be directed?

7. Do any sellers of Montecristis operate transparently enough and have direct enough contacts to ensure and show that a high percentage of the final sales price goes to the weaver?

8. If I buy a fino fino Montechristi, will I get a better leather sweatband (and finishing craftsman) than if I buy a fino Montechristi? A better block?

Thanks!

 

[HungaryTom]

I think in most answers we need PanamaBob.
I give comments only to what I understood…
• Famous weavers: The Espinal family has several famous weavers. During my search I found names mentioned: Martin Lopez Espinal, Cenovio Italo Espinal, Simon Espinal, Marcial Espinal, Idolo Espinal. Juana Isabel, Maria Chlotilde, Simon Abel. Manuel Alarcon is also famous: he is interviewed in 2 articles. His son Mariano Alarcon is mentioned by name as well. I don’t know who is who, who is still alive and “who has left for Panama” as weavers say…or became shrimp packer#915649782/985997/4 somewhere
• Who is the best weaver?...Pile master weavers always say it is a handful of them (numbers vary between 5-20) who are capable to turn out the finest hats…This tone is the result of their mastery… doing any art imperatively develops reverence also for fellow practitioners and masters…I couldn’t find ANYWHERE a quote of them like “I’ma da best 4get da rest...
• I think anyone from the “champions league” can turn out a masterwork if he/she is well paid and does not have to worry about things like paying a coffin…
• In this context I think it is really only their ancient Polynesian/American-Indian hospitability towards strangers, their patience as artisans and practiced Christianity that prevent them from using their machetes or razor-blades to cut other extremities than cogollos or excess straw form hat bodies!!!
Working until 82 (Don Rosendo) or until 97 (Don Fausto Mero),…no retirement…raising generations of descendents, financing their education from these “salaries” needs a similar “risk taking” like starting a catamaran sailboat into the Pacific without a map…
• As with all art forms/at all times/and places there are handful grandmasters, some more masters and even more honourable artisans. Like a pyramid…The same goes for quality they turn out….and the prices asked…and yes you can learn any art form if you really want…achievement depends by 10% on your talent and by 90% your effort invested.
• Polynesians have not too many raw materials when it comes to artisanship…no gold and silver, no ivory, no marble, no granite…mostly fibre plants…quickly overpopulating tiny islands they had to take risks venturing thousands of miles to the Pacific with boats that no other people would dare…, no airliners, no cruiser ships, no GPS…arrived somewhere in South-America …mixed with locals…lost their ancient beliefs, cults…what is left from their origins is their risk taking, relaxed character, their genes expressed in their features…their genius which is expressed in weaving…to which they notoriously hang on…they meet different empire builders…What is left over is Pile, Pampas and a few villages I don’t know…Seeing the genial hats, clever people want to export the culture elsewhere…to Cuenca, to make an industry of that…which region naturally has also talented artists…
• Each of the few thousand Montectristi finos/yr is produced by a few hundred weavers, finished by a handful of hat-finishers…collected by anyone with a minimum sense for the aesthetic…artists, hat industrials, honorary statesmen, and statesmen of the underworld…and everyday people, if they can afford.
• In this context it is strange to read remarks like any Montecristi -if it is a real one– offered by a competitor is crap, bottom-feeder stuff...this insults most probably the makers of their own Montecristis…For such critics it is recommended to surpass either in weaving, or achieve similar sought-after world-class in their profession…both would stop them saying such things.

 

[Davidson]

Thank you!

HungaryTom, thank you very much for your lengthy answers. It is certainly an interesting subject, and the information you have found and presented has helped my learning.

Thanks again.

 

[HungaryTom]

Most welcome

Dear Davidson,

Just a few words who I am and why did I start this thread at all. I am 34, w. family, 1 little son. I grin on my avatar, work as freelance interpreter, translator, relocation consultant in Budapest. Interests: besides my family, history, painting http://kéri-tamás.fotopic.net/ excursions, etc...
1 year ago I saw a Montecristi on a guest in Hotel Intercontinental while waiting for a client. That’s it…I instantly knew I found a new obsession. I observed that summer panama hats on a few tourists, a low-grade Cuenca in a downtown milliner showcase and Carludovica palmata in the Botanical garden’s greenhouse.
Budapest is a nice town you find here still a few old-school tailors, shirt-makers, shoemakers, hatters who survived 20th century state terror. I like and wear classic wardrobe, collected several handmade shoes since 2003 (20+ pairs… 5 pairs Vass shoes, at half the US price)…but in respect of Panama hats…it’s “East of Eden”…totally cut off. Before WWII we had Panamas here too, aristocrats, artists, dandies did wear them…early 1900’s novels mention them and some B/W films show them.
I am stubborn and my madness has method. I ordered & read the coffee table book in French original, asked the Ecuadorian embassy, asked Budapest milliners. I got always the answer: “Panama hats? They are rare. Cost thousands of dollars…we don’t have them”. I didn’t give up, searched the internet and decided to take the risk of purchasing there.
In Hungary you find enough wheat straw hats and rice paper hats at Asia Center…It’s no problem to get a generic yard-work hat. But I was looking for the “Full Monty”…without paying $$$$.
This is how I finally got to PanamaBob. I purchased a commissioned hat and he introduced me here at FL. The rest is on this thread.

 

[HungaryTom]

Few more think starters

I sincerely hope that the 50-50 business model will finally reach the shores of Ecuador after floating for centuries in the Pacific in that sealed-off bottle...
One more thing: its not politically correct, but as a buyer I don't have to be in good terms w. the local govt I can say that too.
Really its not only the foreign hatters working with whatever profit rates who should think of saving the Montecristi art!!! The indigenous hat merchants namely offer same low-wage prices. And the situation is not the merchants fault only.
The own government could take some action too...civic initatives&projects of PanamaBob, Casey Dalzell, some German sellers are OK and honorable...but Ecuador itself has rich and influential people. Yes I mean the guys at the Quito bullfights, etc. Ecuador is an independent state with worldwide diplomatic network. None of the merchants -even those w. best Hollywood connections and highest profit rates - has this infrastructure.
Panamabob, we paddle in the same boat and he took my/our „Earl Scheib” hat…BUT fair is fair.
It is really strange that its Brent Black, an ex-marketing man from the US arriving in Montecristi in 1988 who has the idea to create a UN protected cultural status to establish a brand name Montecristi finos (no "Panama hats") trying to push Montecristis –and himself- in National Geographic through his journalist ally and client. You never see an Ecuadorean state financed campaign in articles-all websites would feature that.
A state has not only the function of re-collecting taxes in order to maintain the apparatus.
Some services should be done in return to citizens. The same goes for diplomats. I know Galo Plaza a former President of Ecuador was an "informal" ambassador to the Panama hats. Why did this stop?
Why does Ecuador just roll with the fact that its signature product is mis-labelled?
It took decades of diplomatic work, country marketing and lobbying to get the most beautiful parts of Budapest listed as a UN cultural heritage site. Montecristi fino deserves a similar status. What do you think?

 

[Panamabob]

1. Is making very fine ("fino fino" and up) hats harder (require more skill) or does it just take longer?

2. Do very fine Montecristis last for years, given regular wear and care? What destroys them?

3. What is the "sweet spot" where the very skilled weaver makes the most money for his time - 300 wpi, 500 wpi, 700 wpi, 1000+?

4. Can a lot of weavers make good 300 or 500 wpi hats? Is it easy to learn? (Google's translation of the article said the deceased taught two Frenchmen in 3 months...)

5. Does it take special skills to trim and finish the brim edge of very fine Montecristi hats also?

6. Are there specific identified weavers or families with high skill levels to whom work can be directed?

7. Do any sellers of Montecristis operate transparently enough and have direct enough contacts to ensure and show that a high percentage of the final sales price goes to the weaver?

8. If I buy a fino fino Montechristi, will I get a better leather sweatband (and finishing craftsman) than if I buy a fino Montechristi? A better block?

#1

I think it requires more skill to keep the weaves straight and true, rather than making the hat finer. The finer they cut the paja, the longer the hat will take, but the more straight and true, the more valuable the hat, no matter how many weaves it has.


#2

Years and years. The pinching of fingers destroys them (oils and pressure?). They get brittle if dried out. Our own Sharpetoys has a 70+ (correct me, please) year old Montecristi that is full of life.

#3

I'm really not sure. I'll have to ask. It seems like once you get past 500 or so the price rises drastically.

#4

Yes, despite popular opinion, there are hundreds of weavers in various villages who can make nice 300-500 hats. It appears to be easy if you have the time, patience, and nimble fingers. I don't know how many years of practice it takes to become precise at making straight rows, because even the elder weavers don't make perfect hats. Unlike some, we buy hats from everyone so we get the good with the less than perfect.

#5

Yes, you need to know how to do the backweave. I only know of one person who can do this. I'm sure there are more, but I only have seen one woman in Montecristi doing this. Many people, like Rosendo, Flerida, Gloria, Pablo, etc., straighten the backweave as much as possible after it has been to the backweaver.


#6

Espinal family, Alarcon family, and many, many others. There are more weavers than you are led to believe. Pile might have a couple of dozen really good weavers, but that is only one very small village. There are at least two other towns with hats as good as Pile, thought you won't hear that in public from most people. The people in Montecristi have often said that the only difference between the Pile finos and the Pampas finos are the way that the pinholes appear in the hat and the prices. There are many small villages that put out good hats.


#7

Yes.

#8

The leather and finishing work varies depending on who finishes the hat. I've seen tremendous hats come from Art Fawcett, Trent Johnson, GrahamThompson, Vince Corvelli, and Gary White. BTW, at least three of the afore mentioned told me that they ahve blocked for Hawaii. I've heard tales of tremendous blocks from Gus Miller (also blocked for Hawaii), Grant Sergot, Peters Bros. (also blocked for Hawaii), Aztex (Also blocked for Hawaii), and Mr. Conley. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. I'll edit and add as I remember.

 

[HungaryTom]

Little less conversation little more action…

Dear all,

Montecristi pictures can tell 1000 times more than all my talk here. This is a description of an idea. More feasible than changing Ecuadorian status quo.

• PanamaBob listed a ton of US master hatters blocking Montecristis with whom he has good contacts. And who have on their sides hundreds of blocks, different styles. And since they are not blocking machines, each of them has INDIVIDUAL variations in what they do. This is the genial about handwork!!!!!
• PB sells thousands of Montecristis/year…in all classes; museum to workaday. The few pictures on websites can be just appetizers…since there are much more styles available through co-operating hatters.
• The threads of members with hat photos are popular because of their hat PHOTOS. Talking hats is not the same. I saw many pictures which aren’t available anymore when opening the threads.
•Pictures posted in threads are OK but they get lost when the threads get old/archived…plus there are many new threads coming…4700+ threads.
• I think it would be win-win to all to see as many Montecristi photos as possible in a thematically collected and ordered and linked database Call this project the „Panama hatters guild” or whatever title is OK. How this should look like: http://www.danieltv.com/gallery2/main.php
•Seeing Panama (or any hat) photos on a single link with folder/subfolder system like hatters A-Z/workshop photos/actual models AND members A-Z/their own hat photos…Sections like Montecristi superfino, fino, Montecristi/Cuenca comparisons, Making of… special weaves/finish, or vintage peaces could be there. Just outlines of my thoughts….
•Post the unblocked hat bodies and blocked hats after price classes: from e-bay grades up to the commissioned grade …quality differences could be explained w. illustrated comments, wpsi, color, pinholes etc. It would be obvious why the same wpsi can cost more or less w. weave differences. Buyers would know what kind of hats they get for their bucks...owners of hats could compare price/value ratio of their own hats they purchased elsewhere. Any seller doing such a display definitely qualifies as transparent. There are already tons of pictures posted, they could be collected and new ones could be added.
•Explaining by the power of photos. I know this is lengthy but worth doing. Do it once and later anyone with specific questions could be redirected there...
•It is only possible to see the few master hatters from different corners of the US side by side only in the virtual space. Make photos when sending the unblocked hat body from Ecuador. The finished hat could be photographed again in Ecuador or the US before sending it to the buyer...Make close-up photos showing weaving, detailing, putting on smallest coins of EUR, GBP, JPY and USD and a metric inch liner/as you like it, make a still life kind of „portraits” of the beauty from different angles…or ask a professional photographer to do all this. Such photos could be standardized that way. Happy buyers could then also put the hat photos, giving the full history.
•For buyers it would be easier to ask for block styles/ribbons/finishes by simply re-sending a picture of what they exactly want and hatters would get more commissions if they are selling on the same platform. Members could take whatever kind of photos, they are not all professional photographers, although some posts are really A1.
•Lets get not false hypocrisy here…Fedora Lounge/Hats is a forum for future hat owners or collectors…for what else do people come here?
•In medieval times honorable masters of any trade put themselves together in guilds, did ply their trade and sold their produce in a concentrated way. On the same street, side by side. People went there to see, compare, maybe to buy. This was the reason why everybody went there and nobody offended any honorable professional in their own place „Hey what are you lurking here?”
•In Hungary the guilds were dissolved in the 1870’s. However the artisans still maintained apprenticeship (years-long on-the-job training besides a master). Than the to-be master went on wandering, visiting other countries masters/workshops to get a bigger picture. Once doing the master exam by doing a masterpiece „Meisterstück” approved by a board of experienced masters, the training is finished and the new master can open shop and train apprentices. The Artisan Chamber still does master examinations and issues the masters certificate "Meisterbrief" which is proudly posted on the small workshops wall. I don't know whether this ole European tradition exists in the US. If not, it is the masterpiece quality that qualifies a master as such.
•Seeing masterpiece hats could easily answer who are the master hatters and where to get fine hats.
•Fedora Lounge/Hats is an ideal platform for that kind of virtual hatter’s street! Its all too natural to find here Montecristi hatters, blockers, prospective buyers, or just people who want to stair and enjoy the feeling of this at all.


This is a commercial thing I know, but as the prospective guild members (hat body sellers and master hatters) are all Small and Medium Enterprises they must spend their time&money the most effective way. Assembling another coffee-table book or expensive brochures is less effective than this e-presence. But high-quality photos are needed, which would match the high quality of the produce!

 

[HungaryTom]

BUY PANAMAS - ANOTHER REASON BESIDES SUMMER

I just saw this:

http://www.wvi.org/wvi/country_profi...es/ecuador.htm

Quotes from there

Little is known about the people who lived in Ecuador before the Incas conquered the region in the 15th century. The first settlers are believed to have arrived in the region around 12,000 BC from Asia, and later settlers also arrived from Polynesia.

***
Access to health services, particularly among the poor rural communities, is limited. Around 20% of the population has no access to health care at all, and around 28% of women give birth without medical attention.

Poverty is extremely widespread, with nearly 80% of the population considered to be living below the poverty line. Only 25% of people are in full-time employment, while 65% are under employed.

The food situation, already bad due to the state of the economy, has been made worse by El Nino. Around 13.5% of children under five in Ecuador are considered chronically undernourished.

Education is another area in need of improvement. Only half of high school-aged children have access to secondary education.

More and more men are being forced to migrate in search of work. This leaves a particularly heavy burden on women, who have to look after livestock, care for children, and do household duties.

The economic burden also means many children are being forced to work to supplement their parents' incomes. An estimated 2.1 million children between the ages of 10 and 17 are believed to be working, while one in four girls are domestic servants. "[/I]

Seeing this all,
It doesn't matter whether the Montecristi weavers arrived from Asia/Polynesia
It doesn't matter what the weaving's origins are -Moon goddess worship/Batwinghats –now it is an act of survival
It doesn't matter whether the Ecuadorian govt. organizes that campaign against Panama misnomer
It doesn't matter whether your toquilla hat will be a Cuenca/Montecristi.
It doesn't matter whether you order yr toquilla machine-blocked/hand blocked
It doesn't matter whether you like the Fedora/Optimo block
It doesn't matter whether you like wide/short brim
It doesn't matter whether you like high/low crown
It doesn't matter whether you like it with wide/thin - vintage/new ribbon

It doesn’t even matter form which seller/price range you buy - your money,common sense, info level decide.

Just buy Panama hats and help.

HELP.

 

[HungaryTom]

Price info from third party: Montecristi superfino at 500 USD

The Article

Ecuador
Ein Land unter dem Panamahut
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/reise/artikel/668/95573/
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/reise/artikel/668/95573/4/


The relevant part of this interview was made in Pampas – the other weaver village w. name.
Executive summary (my translation) with just the new info:

• Cesar Alonza, the interviewed montubio cuts here 12 cogollos for a toquilla hat.
• Jolanda Alonza, his wife, a weaver does 12 superfinos/yr. (2 new names)
• 1 „Superfino“ gets the family the sum of 50 USD = 40 EUR
• “Hatmaking therefore is only a secondary job, nobody can survive off this on a full-time basis” tells Cesar.
• Middlemen, "graze" the weaver villages and get the unfinished hats for manufactures in Montecristi and Cuenca at high profit.
• Current price for a finished Superfino is 500 USD = 393 EUR.
• Factory visit: „La Casa del Sombrero“ and Homero Ortega factory- both in Cuenca.

Süddeutsche Zeitung:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Süddeutsche_Zeitung
Publised since 1949. No interests in the Panama hats business,they aren't hat seller shills.

Just watch yr. pockets in the summer, while helping.
http://www.danieltv.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=3729;


What a small&networked world…

Now we have the concise comparison of Montecristi finos/from arcticles compiled at this thread:

Weaver family/Provenance/workload per hat/price

Espinal family/Pile/3 months weaving/900 USD
Alarcon family/Pile/6 weeks of weaving/800 USD
Alonza family/Pampas/1 month of weaving/500 USD

Now you see the "top of the pyramid" of fine toquillas;

The further increase in quality (more wpsi combined with even and fine weave) above a certain point is not linear, neither is it in money nor in time and that the little difference commands walking long extra miles, i.e. many times more work...Superfino experts correct please.

 

[HungaryTom]

Fable time-Panamas

Dear Loungers,

weekend is coming...
http://www.danieltv.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=3513

P1050975.JPG? - That was the name of that dog? Really?

Please don’t leave it that way and give it a nice name please...

#Aesop
#Lafontaine
#25k
#???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fable... I loved them as a child and still like them.

What is the moral of this one?

The polls have opened...let your fantasy work.

Anyone-anyone?

 

[cookie]

La Vida Continua

Thanks Tom for the snaps. They remind me of travelling in Latin America in 1977 when everything was original and somewhat untouched like these places.

 

[Panamabob]

We buy Pampas hats, too. The finest Pampas hat might be $50.00 to $100.00 cheaper than the finest Pile hats...and just as good!

 

[HungaryTom]

Milestone celebration: 1600 vpsi

​

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you for developing this thread into „super-fino” 1600 views per square inch….new measurement unit.:eusa_clap
Even if we deduct my 50% share of viewings in the spirit of 50-50 I always promote here.

Another summary (as a thank you): ​

• Panama hats weaving is an art, thus can not be measured exactly…Think of the movie Dead Poets Society: beauty is not measurable. Period.

Who can decide that a hat is woven by the Alarcon or Espinal family, in other words it is superfino? Some 100% safe solutions

1. Members of the Alarcon and Espinal family- Costs: only the toquilla and your time: you weave the hat– irony: you will be always to poor to afford it, you will live the misery of „Sad Tropics”
2. Don Rosendo & co.: Professional buyers, finishers etc. who are embedded in the Montecristi fino chain. Costs: your entire life - you must spend w. toquilla hats.
3. Those who do the Pilgrimage to Pile/Manabi/Ecuador and arrive just in time to buy an unfinished hat body that must be just backwoven. Than those must go and find a hat finisher workshop (i.e. Don Rosendo) who finish that specimen. Also here: you must be there all the time otherwise the hat disappears and another may appear in its place. Costs: some $$$+ a few months walking in their shoes
4. US President at the inauguration, when they receive their superfine toquilla hat as a state gift from the Ecuadorian State Department… in this case the guys of the very secret 3 letters organizations make sure that nobody messes around with the President’s hat. Also: all artists involved in the production consider such commissions as the peak of their career. In other times this meant becoming 'royal warrants'...Costs of the election campaign included…
5. Those who apply the Al Capone model: send their people to “make them a proposal they can not refuse” and import an Espinal, Alarcon or any master-weaver+ into their “family” together with some expert hat finishers. ... I don’t think “Capone’s weaver”- if he/she existed at all- did live in a bamboo shack in Chicago…This traditional paternalistic way takes however also “grandezza” when “weaving” these master weaver in your “family”…Costs: getting to the top of the underworld hierarchy and you must take care of those members forever.

ANYTHING ELSE IS NOT 100% safe.​

If you buy at hat sellers: you must simply trust them. Period. Brandnames are different, profit rates are also. 30k hat costs even 30k. Those are most probably vintage hats of an era that is gone. Remember: 9-12 months work results in a different (higher) output than the current maximum of 3 months. Those specimens must be 70-80 years old hats, or hats from late weavers whom Brent Black or Milton Johnson, etc. have met earlier in their decades old careers. Those up-market hatters also LOVE their subject (they couldn’t be successful by doing something they HATE) and put prohibitive prices on those one-off flagships. There is enough money to be spent/wasted/loundered worldwide and if one of those bigshot buyers wants to snap their (toquilla) “crown jewels” must pay the price. Those who pay the amount want to get something unique and can kill for a price difference of 24000-29000 dollars…
I believe that even those up market sellers make the most money from selling most hats at their 1000-2000 range, much lesser hats at 5000 USD, and just a handful of the highest priced toquillas. Also like w. a pyramid.

Common sense​

If you are looking for a decent toquilla have the local „superfino” price of some 500 USD in mind. Locals call any hat a superfino where the weaver is experienced, takes a lot of time (1 month) and effort to weave a decent hat. A weaver calls those hats his/her superfino, the lesser lucky hats with less time/effort invested:extrafino and the so-so hats just a fino…

Question:​

I only would like to ask what is the common wpsi for everyday Panama hats (should they be Montecristi? Cuenca?) where the hat must not be treated like a piece of silk, but can be used as a piece of gear to shade your head.

Your opinions please.

 

[HungaryTom]

Museum quality

Some superfino toquillas

Truman’s hat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PanamaHatHarryTruman.jpg

FDR’s hat
http://www.telegram.com/static/reprints/fdroct14.html

Collection a lifetime pursuit
Exhaustive FDR collection may give birth to museum

‘A Panama hat FDR wore at the Tehran Conference in November and December 1943 is on display, along with a straw hat the president donned for a baseball game. ‘

The FDR museum project came true: :eusa_clap

http://www.fdrheritage.org/fdr_museum_preview.htm

The relevant part:

“A wonderful, unique, and historical personal item belonging to FDR, the hat he wore at the 1943 Teheran Conference during World War II where the three leaders of the principal Allied powers, the United States, United Kingdom, and Soviet Union, met and conferred on Allied war strategy for the first time. FDR’s straw-colored, linen Panama hat with black band was manufactured by C.A. Arcentales, Ecuador, and is in pristine condition, with “Franklin D. Roosevelt” embossed in gold letters on the interior sweatband of this hat worn by FDR at the historic 1943 Teheran Conference.

FDR’s famous hat is accompanied by notarized provenance from Gary Entrup, State Highway Patrolman, and son of Lester and Marge Entrup, Eleanor Roosevelt’s Hyde Park, New York housekeepers, attesting to the hat’s authenticity and historic association. Mr. Entrup’s notarized signed statement, dated March 10, 1997 reads: “This is to certify that I, Gary Entrup, am the son of Mr. And Mrs. Lester Entrup who served as Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt’s handymen, cooks, and housekeepers for approximately fifteen years at her residence Val-Kill, in Hyde Park, New York. I personally spent many hours at Val-Kill assisting my mother at parties, in painting, and in other household chores. My parents and I obviously knew Mrs. Roosevelt very well, and over the years my parents were given by Mrs. Roosevelt many of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s personal possessions. Upon the death of my parents, I inherited many of these items, including a straw-colored linen Panama hat with black band made by C. A. Arcentales, Ecuador, with his name “Franklin D. Roosevelt” embossed in gold letters on the interior sweat band. I was told by my mother that Mrs. Roosevelt had told her that this particular hat had been worn by Franklin Roosevelt at the Teheran Conference in 1943. It has been one of my favorite souvenirs of Mr. Roosevelt./ Gary Entrup/ March 10, 1997/ Kristen B. Hummel/ Notary Public/ My Commission Expires Dec. 31, 2001/ Notary Stamp.” A wonderful letter of provenance attesting to the authenticity of FDR’s hat worn at the historic Teheran Conference during World War II. Further, included are copies of two letters from John A. Roosevelt, the youngest child of FDR and ER, plus a copy of the first two pages of ER’s Probate Notice of her Last Will and Testament wherein Lester and Marge Entrup are included as beneficiaries, demonstrating the legitimacy of the Entrup’s intimate association with the Roosevelts. A wonderfully unique and historically important FDR relic with outstanding provenance.”

Priceless treasures, no doubt.

How much wpsi and vueltas those museum hats might have?

Could it be possible that FL members ask those questions?

Maybe some enthusiast did that already...

It could go easier from the US—to get the museums to reveal dates like weaves per square inches or vueltas?

You most probably all know the toquilla photos of other historic people: Al Capone, Bonaparte Napoleon, Churchill, Hirohito, Prince of Wales.

I don't know whether those superfinos are exhibited somewhere or just their photos exist.

But these two US superfino toquilla specimens with provenance are definitely exhibited.

This invites to a possible "research" project since FL is international. (It was proven already with another 'exotic' thread.)

Just to get a clear picture at FL about what is really high end in terms of beauty, and to make sure nobody gets carried away by sheer wpsi or vuelta number fetishism.

Bonus track for all the kind visitors: a Borsalino article w. brief mentioning of Montecristi hats
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070530/lf_nm/fashion_borsalino_dc

 

[HungaryTom]

Superfino case study

The article is not neutral - I post it because of the nice close-up Montecristi C-crown Fedora.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/node/1007

"a toquillo straw “thread” count of 1600 threads per square inch."

What is your opinion on this one?

Is this a current or ‘vintage’ specimen?

Price/value ratio?