Painting "Nose Art" on back of A-2

[rocketeer]

Now that jacket looks good...its A2s with nose art on the back i couldnt wear...on an original i kinda get it..on a repo,,nope not for me.

Cheers, this is my only original now. I did have a back painted jacket that I wore outside just as much but that was in the 1980s, I sold it as I needed money and it had a horrible waxy feel to the leather.

 

[rocketeer]

Guess you could never wear this then.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=252
or this
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=266

Ok its not girly nose art but you would have to be a right poser to carry these off.

 

[Sloan1874]

My problem with the ELC paint jobs, especially the second one, is that you see the art and not the jacket - it's too close to fancy dress for my taste. With original ones, time mellows the designs so that they become 'part' of the jacket, and I think it shifts them towards the status of artefacts.

 

[rocketeer]

I never really understood the idea behind these. What if you are somewhere like an airshow and another person is wearing the same? Guess it's hand bags at dawn. I would rather have a repro with my own design, be it girly art or something on an aviation theme.
I would imagine most of these jackets will spend their lives in wardrobes, would you wear it?
And a collectors item? It's a bit like buying a good copy of the Mona Lisa but paying a premium price for it. I have a very good copy of a Picasso's Ma Jolie, but it's a copy, could it be worth a £1000? I paid £25 for it.

 

[splintercellsz]

I plan to get myself an a-2, put my units art work on it, and wear it as much as I can.

 

[Stand By]

I think that these jackets with pre-painted nose/jacket art designs are simply for those people who want the look of a WW2 jacket - but can't paint it themselves or don't want to find an artist either; they just want the look and they have the cash to pay for it and they're done. Fair enough.

I think that it's the same with the people who buy a die-cast model of a plane or tank instead of buying and building the kits and painting them themselves; they want the thing as they like to look at it and they derive whatever pleasure or satisfaction it is they get from having it, but without the need to buy books for research, buy paints, brushes, adhesives, mediums etc and then put in the time and patience and have/develop the skills ...
It's horses for courses at the end of the day and there'll always be people who want them. Me? I'd rather build it and I'd build it better too (only because I've been building kits since I was 6 and I'm a medical artist today), but that's me and many others aren't like that, and that's fine.

But I agree - to bump into someone else wearing exactly the same jacket ... that'd be a bit deflating. Thats why I do my own jacket art and have a name tag on my jacket too - so I can take the satisfaction in knowing that there isn't another jacket like mine anywhere in the world.

 

[Peter Mackin]

Guess you could never wear this then.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=252
or this
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=266

Ok its not girly nose art but you would have to be a right poser to carry these off.

Lol never in a million years...

 

[rocketeer]

I plan to get myself an a-2, put my units art work on it, and wear it as much as I can.

:thumb:

 

[kingken]

This will be my first official post on this Forum! First of all, what an interesting thread this is. As I write this, I have a memorial A2 headed to me that was made to honor my Grandad and the crew of the B-17 he was in during WWII. It wa shot down over France, he was the only survivor becoming a POW in Stalag 17B for almost 2yrs. This is the memorial web page with the story if interested: http://flgrube1.tripod.com/id352.html
I intend to have 'nose art' painted on the back eventually. It's going to be a 'walking memorial' and used as a visual aid when I tell the story of the 'Homesick Angel'. I don't have any hang ups about wearing something like that. I want to get it done as if one of those 18-25 yr old flyboys would have. Lonely and far from home, nothing to look at except other GI's... probably a pin up will appear somewhere; plane or jacket. I'm sure if I do get a pin up art on the back, that's all some people will see, a half naked girl, without really understanding why. I'm sure those people could care less about the story of sacrifice that may be behind it. But the people who are curious about it, will get a great story told to them. Here are some pics of it so far. (patch position approval pictures)

last one is a crew "photo patch" on inside liner. Thanks for being an interesting lot, I'm glad I became a part of this forum.

 

[Big J]

Guess you could never wear this then.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=252
or this
http://www.eastmanleather.com/product_info.php?products_id=266

Ok its not girly nose art but you would have to be a right poser to carry these off.[

I would never spend that kind of money on a high quality jacket with cookie cutter art on the back.
I think it's an extension of the argument I made for patches on flight jackets; it's about personal freedom- some people like patches on their flight jackets, and some don't. That's fine, choice is good. And in the same manner, personalized jacket art is also ok, I that's what you want, I think.
But the point is that it's personal (whether you made a replica of an original jacket with art that you like, or thought up your own 'period' artwork) and not one of a series of identical copies.
Sorry, I'm not much of a wordsmith, but to me it seems strange to express your individuality by buying a jacket with art that is identical to many other jackets.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Here's some guy who painted the classic Lego Space logo on the back of his A-2 jacket. Looks like he did a good job. There's quite a bit of detail about the paints used and stencils, etc.

http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2014/cls-jacket/

 

[bn1966]

I couldn't afford & wouldn't want one of the Eastman painted A2s (again each to their own). In fact I asked them once how the 'Hell's Angels' version was selling & did the buyers intend wearing them out & about.

My personal attitude towards paint n patches on jackets is 'less is more'...just my personal preference. My A2 has a hand painted USAF decal & my M422A an 'invented' painted patch at the breast (all other leathers are plain). I prefer my nylon jackets totally unpatched and without decals.

 

[kingken]

"Sorry, I'm not much of a wordsmith, but to me it seems strange to express your individuality by buying a jacket with art that is identical to many other jackets."

I think that was perfectly said, Big J. Since 'nose art' for the plane My Grandad was in is unknown, I'll try and put something that may have been in the style of the day. Even though I love Vargas girl type pin ups, I'd want something unique but following the period. Like you stated, a cookie cutter jacket is no 'bueno'. The flyboys of the day personalized their jackets; even if they were with the same squadron or even on the same plane, each jacket was different according to taste. No 2 alike. I've come to learn less is more; too much going on, and it's going to look like a gaudy eye-sore. I think the reason a person wears one is important, also. Are they honoring the men or plane of the period or trying to make a 'fashion' statement. If it's the latter... they can pi$$ off!

Gosh, I hope a person isn't required to be a 'wordsmith' on this forum or I'm gonna get booted for sure!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hmm..I've seen many photos of painted original A2s exactly alike (except for the nametag) of those in the same WW2 BG or BS...[huh]
HD

 

[Matt Crunk]

"Sorry, I'm not much of a wordsmith, but to me it seems strange to express your individuality by buying a jacket with art that is identical to many other jackets."

I think that was perfectly said, Big J. Since 'nose art' for the plane My Grandad was in is unknown, I'll try and put something that may have been in the style of the day. Even though I love Vargas girl type pin ups, I'd want something unique but following the period. Like you stated, a cookie cutter jacket is no 'bueno'. The flyboys of the day personalized their jackets; even if they were with the same squadron or even on the same plane, each jacket was different according to taste. No 2 alike. I've come to learn less is more; too much going on, and it's going to look like a gaudy eye-sore. I think the reason a person wears one is important, also. Are they honoring the men or plane of the period or trying to make a 'fashion' statement. If it's the latter... they can pi$$ off!

Gosh, I hope a person isn't required to be a 'wordsmith' on this forum or I'm gonna get booted for sure!

For the record, Big J, I too find nothing at all lacking in your "wordsmithery".

Now to the subject at hand, I understand and agree 100% on pre-painted jackets. What's the point? Sure squadrons no doubt painted matching designs on their jackets, but 70 years later I hardly see the point in wearing a custom painted jacket that matches someone elses. I've never understood assembly-line "custom" at all. Seems to me to be a dichotomy in terms. I've never been much of one for patches and graphics on clothing at all (which may seem odd considering I'm a professional artist who for many years airbrushed and designed imprints for screen printed apparel), but if I were going to wear a painted flight jacket, it would surely be a one-of-a-kind piece. Of course in my case, I'd probably paint it myself.

 

[Edward]

Plenty of reasons why folks might want to wear a pre-painted jacket that replicates an original - a specific flying ace, or a famous plane (I'm sure the film helped shift loads of Memphis Belle themed jackets)... Can't honestly say I can see much point in getting worked up about it. I'm planning an AVG jacket... always liked those and I'm interested in the political nature of that outfit and its story... but the bombing decals give me the willies a bit. Each to his own (wasn't that the point of fighting fascism?). I suppsoe it depends what people want - I can imagine some folks, for example, valuing a less unique but accurate copy of a historical original over a "made-up" jacket with a fictional plane ./ aircrew/ whatever on it, whereas others will feel the latter more in keeping with the vibe of the time.

I couldn't afford & wouldn't want one of the Eastman painted A2s (again each to their own). In fact I asked them once how the 'Hell's Angels' version was selling & did the buyers intend wearing them out & about.

Did you get any response? I've always been curious as to whether the later association of the name with the motorcycle club puts a lot of people off.

My personal attitude towards paint n patches on jackets is 'less is more'...just my personal preference. My A2 has a hand painted USAF decal & my M422A an 'invented' painted patch at the breast (all other leathers are plain). I prefer my nylon jackets totally unpatched and without decals.

I'm the same - I really appreciate well done artwork on a jacket, but it's not for me. Both my A2s have the AAF decal (my nylons the USAF equivalent), and the Aero goat has the 77th Fighter Squadron patch on the front - there when I bought it (it's a version of the goatskin model Aero that they did for a while, the red silk lining and that patch). I like it, but it's not one I'd wear everywhere. I tend to the view that the more artwork you put on a jacket, the less often it will be 'wearable'.... bearing in mind that I work in an office environment which is pretty casual, and so for much of the Spring and Autumn I'm in a collar and tie / trousers / waistcoat under a leather jacket. A painted jacket wouldn't be appropriate there (even on a rare jeans day, it'd be like wearing a Perfecto to work... nobody else would care, but for me it's just not a fit). I'm planning an AVG themed jacket currently, but I know it'll not see anythingl ike as much wear as my plain jackets.


One other thought that occurs regarding the "historical accuracy" bit... We've got plenty of photos of aircrew in their own painted jackets (I always loved the shots of the boys in the Snow White themed plane, each with their own dwarf), but really how representative were they of the standard A2 of the period? Of surviving jackets I've seen, most didn't have back-artwork. Is this the spearpoint collar of the A2 world? The other thing I've always wondered was what really killed the jacket artwork... was it the official crackdown after the noise Goebbels made of the "Murder Inc" boys, or was it that the cloth jackets, and later nylon, just didn't take a field paint job so easily?

 

[Big J]

Edward, I love AVG jackets too.
They have great looks, and speak to an interesting (although admittedly short) era in the war, and the characters who volunteered (and should be remembered).
I wore my 23rd FG patched A-2 when I was in China researching Japanese imperialism a few years back. It was a great conversation starter, and despite all the history between the US and China from the cold war until the present, the 'Flying Tigers' seem to be honestly well remembered and warmly regarded in modern China.

 

[Edward]

Edward, I love AVG jackets too.
They have great looks, and speak to an interesting (although admittedly short) era in the war, and the characters who volunteered (and should be remembered).
I wore my 23rd FG patched A-2 when I was in China researching Japanese imperialism a few years back. It was a great conversation starter, and despite all the history between the US and China from the cold war until the present, the 'Flying Tigers' seem to be honestly well remembered and warmly regarded in modern China.

It's interesting certainly that the AVG are remembered in Chinese folk history as liberators against the Japanese. It's the wheels within wheels side of things that is a big part of the fadcination. I make about four trips a year to Beijing... I'm keen at some point to make a visit to the AVG field (I can add a week's holiday easily enough, so from there's it's jut a matter of booking the internal trip). Given the blood chit I plan, I'd be slightly wary of wearing something bearing the ROC flag, but that said given the way things seem to be on the thaw between Taiwan and the Mainland, in a few years' time that might not be so big a deal any more. (Interestingly, no mention I saw of the AVG in the Beijing Military Museum - worth a visit as much for the narrative it presents as the artefacts!).

 

[Horace Debussy Jones]

Most of the original Flying Tigers wore the M422 jacket if I'm not mistaken? Being Marine Corps or US Navy pilots. I've got a decent copy that I intend to paint up in a Flying Tigers theme. I love the later 14th air force tiger logo though. The earlier Disney logo just looks too cartoonish to me somehow, probably the tiny little wings on the tiger.
I'll paint it for sale to a history buff, so perhaps I will paint the first logo on the back anyway? I'm guessing that it might sell easier.

 

[Edward]

Most of the original Flying Tigers wore the M422 jacket if I'm not mistaken? Being Marine Corps or US Navy pilots.

They did - though from what I read, most of them wore the USN jacket because the USN supplied a load of them to the Chinese Air Force (off the record, I think, since the official narrative was that the US Government were not involved at all with the AVG, that the pilots were all mercenaries who had resigned from the AAF). Some of those USN jackets went on to be worn by ex-AVG when they officially rejoined the AAF after the declaration of war on Japan by the US. Only a very few took A2s with them, and others wore whatever they could get their hands on in the field. I'm sure I have, somewhere, seen a photo of a cloth jacket of some sort - like the Summer issue, cotton version of the USN jacket - being worn with the AVG.

I've got a decent copy that I intend to paint up in a Flying Tigers theme. I love the later 14th air force tiger logo though. The earlier Disney logo just looks too cartoonish to me somehow, probably the tiny little wings on the tiger.
I'll paint it for sale to a history buff, so perhaps I will paint the first logo on the back anyway? I'm guessing that it might sell easier.

I've always liked the Disney one... at this distance, and in a very different age, it's difficult to imagine being in a social climate where commercial brands just got on board with the propaganda (in its technical sense, no value judgement implied) like that. Fascinating historical quirk. If you're painting it up to sell, unless you're going to badge it up as if worn with the later fighter group into which the AVG was subsumed, I'd stick with the original. Worth having a look at some original images, if you want to go hardcore with it. I'm going to have mine done with period-looking multiple-layer leather patches and the full-on leather bloodchit, though in reality it seems to me that the real AVG jackets weren't much decorated beyond the odd patch here and there. Bearing in mind they were only actually in action against the Japanese for a few short weeks before the US entered the war officially and the AVG was disbanded... I'm not sure where the image we have of the AVG jackets fully decked out comes from.... maybe later additions to a jacket still worn in the field? Still, for my money they remain the best-lloking of the fully-decked-out jackets of the period, even if they are atypical.