Out of the Humidor: Weekly Cigar Corner: Current Discussion: General Smoking 01/26/07

[RedPop4]

Also, keep them at less than 70% humidity, Cubans, I mean. The consensus is that they smoke better a bit drier.

 

[jamespowers]

Also, keep them at less than 70% humidity, Cubans, I mean. The consensus is that they smoke better a bit drier.

Less than 70%? I didn't know that. Thanks, I will lower the humidity a bit.
Nobody tells me these things! :eusa_doh:
Speaking of tobacco, I broke out the corncob pipe last night. Small bowl so short smoke but it was pretty darn good with Argosy Black. No headache or the spins.

 

[luvthatlulu]

I have to disagree with that advice about keeping Cubans below 70% humidity. It really is a matter of personal preference; but I like mine, particularly the larger Double Coronas and Churchills, around 71 or even as much as 72%. I suppose though that you have to take a lot of other things into consideration. Areas of the country with drier climates might need more relative humidity than humid, southern climates, for example.

On the subject of cigar sickness, try placing a little sugar on your tongue when you feel the onset of it. I don't know the exact science behind it, but it works!

 

[RedPop4]

Lulu, in my six years of "avid interest" (read: posting on cigar forums) you're the first person I've ever met who prefers Cubans at higher humidity rather than lower. If you could, would you explain why you do this, I'd really appreciate it.

James, most agree that you shouldn't go lower than 65% and that 66-68% is optimal. Normally higher humidity, above 70% makes the draw tougher on most cigars. The excess moisture usually affects the burn adversely as well. I find this to be the case here, where 90% relative humidity is the norm rather than the exception once out in the weather.

 

[warbird]

Lulu if it works for you great. But, Pop is right, from our experience dealing 90% in most of our polls, shows Habanos smokers favor 65%-68%, and the majority of cigar fans in general even with non Cubans prefer less than 70%.

The reason for this may be varied, for one thing they seem to age far better below 70%. Most of our friends age cigars, keeping thousands at at a time. Another reason is that beetles, the dreaded monsters of cigar smokers, hatch at the 70% and over figure. If cigars are at say 72 degrees and 70% humi they are far more prone to hatch than beetles at 72 degrees and 67%, under about 68% those chances drop significantly. The chances of mold also grow greatly if kept at 70% or more humi.

The old adage of 70/70 is really a generality and for most people it isn't the preference, but it also probably isn't a bad way to go for a desktop humi and short term storage. The worst falacy out there for years was the relative humi and temp balancing myth. It said if cigars are at 72 degrees, they should be 68% or 65% they should be kept at 75 degrees. This was debunked years ago. The important thing is, don't let 'em dry out, and don't let em get moldy. And don't let them get much above 70% humi and 70 degrees. You may never get those dang beetles, but if they are there, they will hatch and if they do, most of your stock may be gone before you notice.

If you do get them, pm Pop or i and we can tell you how to freeze them to kill them. In fact many of our buds freeze every shipment they get, even though Altadis now says they are doing this with the Cuban products.

 

[warbird]

Lulu, in my six years of "avid interest" (read: posting on cigar forums) you're the first person I've ever met who prefers Cubans at higher humidity rather than lower. If you could, would you explain why you do this, I'd really appreciate it.

James, most agree that you shouldn't go lower than 65% and that 66-68% is optimal. Normally higher humidity, above 70% makes the draw tougher on most cigars. The excess moisture usually affects the burn adversely as well. I find this to be the case here, where 90% relative humidity is the norm rather than the exception once out in the weather.

I agree with that. I can't hardly get a good draw on anything 70% much less over.

 

[vonwotan]

I find this discussion of humidity quite intersting and, might offer that I have had inconsistent readings from various hygrometers over the years which migh contribute to the differences of opinion. For most of my cigars the are stored in a large humidor with two separate elements (top and bottom shelves) at roughly 68% humidity. For the cigars we intend to smoke in the near future we move some to a smaller humidor at no more than 65% humidity.

I don't know whether it is just a long held misconception but, it seems from many years of trial and error that long term storage at higher humidity allows the cigars to continue to age, but to improve draw and, IMHO, flavor we allow them to "dry out" a bit before smoking.

I had never really heard the debate of cubans vs. non-cubans and humidity levels.

 

[warbird]

I find this discussion of humidity quite intersting and, might offer that I have had inconsistent readings from various hygrometers over the years which migh contribute to the differences of opinion. For most of my cigars the are stored in a large humidor with two separate elements (top and bottom shelves) at roughly 68% humidity. For the cigars we intend to smoke in the near future we move some to a smaller humidor at no more than 65% humidity.

I don't know whether it is just a long held misconception but, it seems from many years of trial and error that long term storage at higher humidity allows the cigars to continue to age, but to improve draw and, IMHO, flavor we allow them to "dry out" a bit before smoking.

I had never really heard the debate of cubans vs. non-cubans and humidity levels.

I'm not sure there isa huge debate about humi levels with Cubans v. non-Cubans. I keep all of mine the same, if I had any Habanos currently, they are illegal in the US you know.

I think it comes down to the fact that Cuban smokers here in the US tend to be more finicky how their smokes are kept. But some non-Cuban smokers are just as finicky, as to lose a stash of cigars is a nightmare, oh the horror. Typicall most agree with you though, age them at 67-68% and smoke em at 65-67%.

 

[SGB]

Humidity and temp

I've been smoking and storing cigars for over 35 years, and I usually keep all my cigars at 70-72%. I have not had any problems with draw based on the humidity, actually I have problems at lower humidity as they are dry and the wrapper can be a problem.
I had a walk-in humidor when I lived in CA with an average of about 4,500 sticks all the time. Now, living in AZ I only have a big electric humidor that is full with about 1,600 sticks, and I keep it at 72% all the time, the cigars smoke fine. I have boxes of cigars that are over 15 years old, and a number of rare sticks are 20. Ideally I feel they are best smoked at no older than 10 years, but I have too many to keep up.
As for the dreaded beetles, we found in CA that the temp was the issue in their hatching more than the humidity. Humidity at 70% and then temps above 78 degrees got the little buggers hatching, so it was critical to keep the temps lower.

SGB

 

[RedPop4]

Like Warbird said, if it works for you, then that's a good thing. Trial and error, as in all things.

I can't put my hands on a link to it, but if you do a salt test on your hygrometer ,you can then calibrate it for accuracy. And if you can't calibrate it ,you can learn the difference between its reading and 70%. It involves putting your hygrometer in a sealed container or bag with a water and salt solution, and leaving it for a couple days. You let the solution sit ,and it will get to 70%. If your hygro doesn't SAY 70%, you can at least see how much it's off, and then compute the difference once it's in your humidor.

I had a small, but contained outbreak during our evacuation during Katrina, when we were out of the house for 3+weeks. I had no where to keep my coolerdors and humidors, except for in my truck. Luckily it was in a Tupperwaridor, and not in my main coolers or desktop.

 

[SGB]

Like Warbird said, if it works for you, then that's a good thing. Trial and error, as in all things.

I can't put my hands on a link to it, but if you do a salt test on your hygrometer ,you can then calibrate it for accuracy. And if you can't calibrate it ,you can learn the difference between its reading and 70%. It involves putting your hygrometer in a sealed container or bag with a water and salt solution, and leaving it for a couple days. You let the solution sit ,and it will get to 70%. If your hygro doesn't SAY 70%, you can at least see how much it's off, and then compute the difference once it's in your humidor.

I had a small, but contained outbreak during our evacuation during Katrina, when we were out of the house for 3+weeks. I had no where to keep my coolerdors and humidors, except for in my truck. Luckily it was in a Tupperwaridor, and not in my main coolers or desktop.

My hygrometers are both accurate, I know how to test and keep my cigars in good smoking condition. My current humidor is made by Vigilant, holds 40 boxes, and comes with a hard-wired electronic hygrometer. I also have a digital one in there as a back-up. For $3500 I suspect my humidor works pretty good. Like I said, I've been doing this for over 35 years and I've never had a problem. I always get compliments on the excellent condition of my cigars whenever I pass some out to friends. And when I moved from CA to AZ I got rid of a few hundred cigars, everybody was real happy with the condition of the smokes I gave away.
Also, all the smokes shops I worked in and visited always kept their humidors at 70-72%, still do today. Seems to work for the pros ok.
But, to each his own, as long as one likes how his cigars smoke, then enjoy.

SGB

 

[RedPop4]

Well, since I know nothing of your background prior to this exchange sorry to insult your intelligence. This isn't a cigar site, so when these threads and discussions occur, we're operating in the blind as it were with regards to others' experience. Sorry, again, to assume too much where you are concerned. Perhaps the salt-test information may be useful to others, even if it insults you, your obviously high-end humis and what have you.

Sounds like you have it made, you're where many of us aspire to be.
I'll leave the field to you.

Feel free to go correct all my misinformation on the RTDA thread as well.

Long ashes to you!!!!

 

[warbird]

My hygrometers are both accurate, I know how to test and keep my cigars in good smoking condition. My current humidor is made by Vigilant, holds 40 boxes, and comes with a hard-wired electronic hygrometer. I also have a digital one in there as a back-up. For $3500 I suspect my humidor works pretty good. Like I said, I've been doing this for over 35 years and I've never had a problem. I always get compliments on the excellent condition of my cigars whenever I pass some out to friends. And when I moved from CA to AZ I got rid of a few hundred cigars, everybody was real happy with the condition of the smokes I gave away.
Also, all the smokes shops I worked in and visited always kept their humidors at 70-72%, still do today. Seems to work for the pros ok.
But, to each his own, as long as one likes how his cigars smoke, then enjoy.

SGB

I think Pop's salt test explanation was aimed at another poster above who questioned whether his hygro was actually correct and how could he find out. As I said a lot of it, is what suits you best. We simply stated what is preferred by te folks we know.

It may also be common with the low humidity in the west to keep them a bit moister in the humi as they dry out faster when out. All of the shops I know of here and most I have been in in the east run them in te upper 60's. Most of the major manufacturers also keep their own humis in that range. In the end it doesn't ater a whole lot as long as it is working for you. If it smokes well, keep it there. This kind of started a number of posts back when advice was being given for things to change because someone's cigars were not smoking properly. If you have no problem then don't change anything.

Beetles are caused by a combination of heat and humidity. When the humidity is above 70%, then beetle outbreaks can occur anytime over 70 degrees, but most often they hatch at spikes of 78-80 or extended periods of 75 or more.

 

[SGB]

Well, since I know nothing of your background prior to this exchange sorry to insult your intelligence. This isn't a cigar site, so when these threads and discussions occur, we're operating in the blind as it were with regards to others' experience. Sorry, again, to assume too much where you are concerned. Perhaps the salt-test information may be useful to others, even if it insults you, your obviously high-end humis and what have you.

Sounds like you have it made, you're where many of us aspire to be.
I'll leave the field to you.

Feel free to go correct all my misinformation on the RTDA thread as well.

Long ashes to you!!!!

Boy, I didn't expect this kind of response. All I was doing was relating my experiences as a dedicated cigar smoker. Perhaps your lecture on hygrometer testing wasn't aimed at me, it just happened right after my post, then my mistake. As for the tone of your post, I don't think I was being insulted, I'm just explaining what I have and how it works for me. You shouldn't feel insulted either. As far as I'm concerned there are no experts here, just people with different experiences, so when I hear that 'aficianados' and other 'experts' say 'this is so', and it is different from what I have learned, then I am suspicious somewhat. Not that I am an expert, far from it, but the advise was different than what my experiences were, and what the shops do where I am from. And yes different areas have different needs, so hydrate as needed.
I am not going to post on this thread again though, as it seems my info was misleading or misinterpreted.
The field is all yours. Have a nice day and enjoy your smokes.

SGB

 

[luvthatlulu]

Lulu, in my six years of "avid interest" (read: posting on cigar forums) you're the first person I've ever met who prefers Cubans at higher humidity rather than lower. If you could, would you explain why you do this, I'd really appreciate it.

James, most agree that you shouldn't go lower than 65% and that 66-68% is optimal. Normally higher humidity, above 70% makes the draw tougher on most cigars. The excess moisture usually affects the burn adversely as well. I find this to be the case here, where 90% relative humidity is the norm rather than the exception once out in the weather.

Hello, RedPop4:

It's just my preference I guess. Where you are located, a lower humidity level might work better for you. New Orleans is a natural humidor in and of itself most of the year! Here in East Tennessee, on the other hand, we've been having temps in the high 90s and low 100 range and very dry. When I started upping the RH to compensate, I noticed that my Partagas Lusitanias, Cohiba Esplendidos, and particularly the Montecristo No. 2s just came to life flavorwise! No draw problems that I can tell. Even seem to burn more evenly. I have tested my digital hygrometer several times for accuracy and it is right on by the salt test, too.

Not the Lulu

 

[warbird]

Hello, RedPop4:

It's just my preference I guess. Where you are located, a lower humidity level might work better for you. New Orleans is a natural humidor in and of itself most of the year! Here in East Tennessee, on the other hand, we've been having temps in the high 90s and low 100 range and very dry. When I started upping the RH to compensate, I noticed that my Partagas Lusitanias, Cohiba Esplendidos, and particularly the Montecristo No. 2s just came to life flavorwise! No draw problems that I can tell. Even seem to burn more evenly. I have tested my digital hygrometer several times for accuracy and it is right on by the salt test, too.

Not the Lulu

What is your system for hydration. I prefer drymistat tubes and silica engineered beads. Avallo is here in Nashville. They make one of the best cabinet humis and active systems available. Even still find a $50 cooler and beads works better than most evrerything else I have seen.

 

[luvthatlulu]

What is your system for hydration. I prefer drymistat tubes and silica engineered beads. Avallo is here in Nashville. They make one of the best cabinet humis and active systems available. Even still find a $50 cooler and beads works better than most evrerything else I have seen.

Vigilant Guardian 1500 for long-term storage. Cigar Oasis XL in my desktop.

Not the Lulu

 

[vonwotan]

Do any of you have contact information or links for Vigilant? Our club is looking for a large humidor, preferably with several separate compartments to hold member and club cigars. There used to be a cabinet maker in Long Island who specialized in built-in wine cellars and humidors. Unfortunately, he has retired to Florida and will not travel for new projects...

 

[luvthatlulu]

www.vigilantinc.com

 

[KL15]

Hello fellow loungers, well as mnay of you out there know I am a huge cigar aficionado and I got to thinking today, I spend a lot of time out on my back deck enjoying a fine cigar and hanging out at the lounge. I thought to myself, what else could I do at the lounge to keep contributing more and more. Well here it is, "Out of the Humidor" will be a weekly posting, like an online magazine, with pictures, cigar ratings, and more for all of you fellow cigar lovers. Every week, during my Sunday evening smokes I will be bringing you cigar news I have gathered during the week, I will rate a new cigar, and bring up interesting cigar related products and much more. So sit back, light up a smoke and let your cares drift away for the first edition of "Out of the Humidor"!

I look forward to all future posts. My personal favorites are Romeo Y Julieta 1875 Churchill, Montecristo White Label, and La Flor Dominnicana Double Ligero Chisel.