Oumuamua

[Canuck Panda]

Fear would be my first reaction if an alien showed up right in front of me. That’s for sure. I hope I would have the courage to maintain an open mind as I hope my visitor would, should that ever happen in my life time.

On a side note I do often see unusual cloud trails left by very fast and agile flying vehicles. Very fast vertical drops and then very sharp maneuvers in an almost impossible direction. I’ve been to many air shows, and these jet stream trails are quite a few steps up from those. I. also live by the water and there is a Naval base close by to my knowledge but I’ve always thought it was for search and rescue only, maybe more is going on. But I will also never know and don’t plan to find out.

Space is the final frontier. Yes I’m a Star Trek fan. Not Star Wars. And I do believe we’re heading there generations down the road.

 

[LizzieMaine]

At the very least, the cosmology of the Abrahamic religions, especially sects or factions of an orthodox/fundamentalist bent, would be thrown into chaos. There are exceptions -- and I imagine those whose faith tends to the less literalist wouldn't have too much trouble adjusting to the contradictions. But hard liners of most stripes would suddenly find themselves having to rationalize, backtrack, or completely abandon much of what they believe and teach about the universe and humanity's place in it. What that would do in nations with especially large hard-line contingents, especially the United States and much of the Arab world, would be interesting to consider.

If you've never watched the 1990s TV series "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine," it deals with a similar question in depicting an ancient, religiously-conservative civilization that comes face to face with the reality that not only are their gods real, they are alien beings of a dimensionally-transcendent, non-linear sort that exist inside a wormhole. Suddenly all the preachers and teachers and religious structures that civilization has built must confront the fact that their gods aren't mystic beings at all, but actual, tangible entities you can visit by getting in a ship.

 

[Tiki Tom]

The finer points of orthodox/fundamentalist religion are not my strong suit. I’ve read elsewhere that, if aliens proved to be real, those with strong religious beliefs would go nuts. Admittedly, I have not thought it through or studied any religious texts. But might it also be possible that fundamentalists would quickly expand their dogmas as necessary without breaking a sweat? For example “yes, well, of course god created all of the universe, not just earth… And he no doubt created these flying saucer jockeys too. Therefore, these aliens also worship him, even if they have different traditions about him or even if they now do not believe at all.” They will then scurry to find ways to “prove” this argument. Or am I assuming more flexibility than is warranted? (Although I “get” that there will always be a few numbskulls who will automatically declare the aliens as demons and go straight to the holy war option.) Mind you, I have absolutely no idea if any aliens who might be out there are we-come-in-peace Captain Kirk types, or you-will-be-assimilated Borg types. I kinda like the idea that, when first contact is made, the U.S. President and the U.N. Secretary General will be thumbing through old Star Trek Next Generation scripts to find a way forward.

 

[Tiki Tom]

NASA announces UAP Team.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-announces-unidentified-aerial-phenomena-study-team-members/

 

[Benny Holiday]

You might be right. As with so many things, I’d probably officially call myself an agnostic, meaning I just don’t know. However, I have been closely following the ufo story for about 45 years, with a critical eye. It seems to me that there is something to it. I can rattle off a number of mass sightings and sightings verified by radar with impeccable witnesses. But, at the end of the day, we always seem to be just one step shy of definitive proof. I am happy that the stigma surrounding the topic is starting to fade, and I look forward to the reports that these official organizations are promising. Even if the answer is “swamp gas.” I also have high hopes that additional USAF classified photos and videos will surface. Several good sources say they exist.

I‘ve noticed a trend: several bright/serious observers have been speculating that my standard idea of a ufo might be all wrong. …That they are not just nuts-and-bolts spacecraft from millions of light years away, but might be much stranger. Ideas tossed out there include that such distances might require a type of time travel component, or a consciousness materialization component, or an inter-dimensional aspect. All are high strangeness ideas that are above my pay grade, but it’s always interesting to hear ideas that are outside of the box.

Finally, I wonder how our civilization would react if, one of these days, a government were to cough up incontrovertible hard proof that your version of the story is indeed correct. Given all our new technology, experts are predicting that we will see evidence of life elsewhere within the next twenty or thirty years. I guess that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. And intelligent life is a whole different kettle of fish. But still, how would humanity react if the aliens-are-real hypothesis was definitively proven correct? Chaos or kumbaya?

The best book I've read on the subject is Alien Intrusion by Gary Bates. His research gleaned from working with a network of UFOlogists, reports and eyewitness accounts is that there's an oddly spiritual facet to the phenomenon. That purportedly interstellar craft, or objects, maneuver through the sky, or even under the sea, at dizzying speeds without any sign of what we would understand to be a propulsion system, for instance; that they can change direction or even disappear, defying the physics of our three-dimensional world, indicates an origin outside of the dimensions we are beholden to.

His research also looked into the demographics of people who have reported abductions by 'ETs'. Russians? check. Australians? check? British? yep. All over the world, everywhere, from Israel to Brazil. What about by religion? Muslims? check. Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists? yep. Evangelical Christians? No. Rather interesting.

Most common amongst abductees are stories of being subjected to physical and sexual experimentation, with the 'ETs' insistent that they are helping humankind to 'evolve' to the next level, that we may become our 'own gods'.

An interesting and scary read, showing there's a lot more to the UFO phenomenon than little green men and flying saucers.

 

[Zombie_61]

...Most common amongst abductees are stories of being subjected to physical and sexual experimentation, with the 'ETs' insistent that they are helping humankind to 'evolve' to the next level, that we may become our 'own gods'...

This is a popular belief among those who believe in Metaphysics, and it's not exactly new. Albert Einstein, for example, "channeled" most (if not all) of his theories, some of which we're only just beginning to sort out and understand. Elon Musk used technology from his "planet of origin" to help create his Tesla electric cars. And so on. Yet most of us humans stubbornly hold onto religious and other superstitious beliefs that have been around for centuries out of fear and/or having nothing else to believe in when our "leaders" fail us yet again. We are, in fact, the lowest rung of the evolutionary food chain in our universe; the bottom feeders, the morons, the dumbest of the dumb, and will continue to be so until we learn to no longer fear new concepts and beliefs and learn to adapt to new things.

 

[Canuck Panda]

What if there is no us (humans) or them (aliens not from this space time)...

And just beings from different space time.

I find there are a lot of similarities in both science and religion. Both are just trying to explain our existence, our perception, and the way we view the world around us. And while we have zero control over what goes on around us, we have absolute control over our own choices, how we react to them.

In this very present moment, I am just sitting in my desk chair, smashing keys on my keyboard and breathing at the same time. Everything else is just thoughts. Some are heavily influenced by my current mood and hunger is driving it because it's lunch time here. But if I just sink down the the core of this very moment, there isn't a lot going on. This may sound boring, but I find it soothing. For that there are unlimited uncertainties that I have zero answers for. But in this very moment, there is just my breathing, and the speed of light is still very constant at just under 300k km/s.

From a statistic / scientific point of view, about aliens, we haven't had an alien invasion for thousands of years, so why now? Why not when we were still in the stone age or when wars ravaged our lands. Why now or soon from now?

From a faith / religious point of view, about aliens, the world was created for living. Throughout the countless wars in history, the "good" have won, everytime. At great cost, but we are still here. Hitler didn't end the world, neither did any of the blood thirsty conquerers in history. Should there be an alien invasion now, I do believe God is on our side. We ain't saints but definitely not the "bad" guys either.

We as humans simply fear the unknown and that's why we are humans. But we also have the ability to chose to be curious. Great things can come from being curious.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Thanks, Al . . . Having heard the term metaphysics plenty of times, I decided to actually look it up and man, ain't that a rabbit hole to go down. Time to head back to the hats and leather jackets forums before my head hurts!

 

[Zombie_61]

Thanks, Al . . . Having heard the term metaphysics plenty of times, I decided to actually look it up and man, ain't that a rabbit hole to go down. Time to head back to the hats and leather jackets forums before my head hurts!

I'm not yet convinced that all aspects of metaphysics are valid, but over the years I've experienced a few things that have opened my mind a little so I'm hoping it's a case of becoming a bit more open-minded as I've grown older and not me being just another lemming drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[Who?]

In short, religious loonies will lose it!

After centuries of teaching (and believing) their “literal truth“ they will not be able to cope with finding out that it was baloney from the beginning.

(just my opinion)

 

[Benny Holiday]

In short, religious loonies will lose it!

After centuries of teaching (and believing) their “literal truth“ they will not be able to cope with finding out that it was baloney from the beginning.

(just my opinion)

Well, whether you're an apparent "religious loony" like me or someone who believes all matter magically popped out of nothing spontaneously supposed billions of years ago, whatever your beliefs on origins they must be taken as a matter of faith. As the physicist Hubert P Yockey wrote in Information Theory and Molecular Biology in 1992, "The belief that life on earth arose spontaneously from non-living matter, is simply a matter of faith in strict reductionism and is based entirely on ideology."

Unlike operational science, historical science can't be proven experimentally in a lab. We can only look at the world around us and derive a framework for a concept of origins from what we see as evidence. For instance, within each living cell are thousands of what can be called ‘biochemical machines.’ All of their parts have to be in place simultaneously or the cell can’t function. Things which were thought to be simple mechanisms, such as being able to sense light and turn it into electrical impulses, are in fact highly complicated.

Since life is built on these ‘machines,’ the idea that natural processes could have made a living system is untenable. Biochemist Dr Michael Behe uses the term ‘irreducible complexity’ in describing such biochemical ‘machines.’

‘… systems of horrendous, irreducible complexity inhabit the cell. The resulting realization that life was designed by an intelligence is a shock to us in the twentieth century who have gotten used to thinking of life as the result of simple natural laws. But other centuries have had their shocks, and there is no reason to suppose that we should escape them.’ Darwin's Black Box, 1996.

Richard Dawkins recognizes this problem of needing ‘machinery’ to start with when he states:

‘The theory of the blind watchmaker is extremely powerful given that we are allowed to assume replication and hence cumulative selection. But if replication needs complex machinery, since the only way we know for complex machinery ultimately to come into existence is cumulative selection, we have a problem.’ The Blind Watchmaker, 1987.

And yet Dawkins, as is his right, still believes in, that is he has faith in, the idea that somehow blind physics has led to such complex biological design. I wouldn't call him a loony, though I don't see the logic in his belief.

Just my opinion.

 

[Who?]

Well, whether you're an apparent "religious loony" like me or someone who believes all matter magically popped out of nothing spontaneously supposed billions of years ago, whatever your beliefs on origins they must be taken as a matter of faith. As the physicist Hubert P Yockey wrote in Information Theory and Molecular Biology in 1992, "The belief that life on earth arose spontaneously from non-living matter, is simply a matter of faith in strict reductionism and is based entirely on ideology."

Unlike operational science, historical science can't be proven experimentally in a lab. We can only look at the world around us and derive a framework for a concept of origins from what we see as evidence. For instance, within each living cell are thousands of what can be called ‘biochemical machines.’ All of their parts have to be in place simultaneously or the cell can’t function. Things which were thought to be simple mechanisms, such as being able to sense light and turn it into electrical impulses, are in fact highly complicated.

Since life is built on these ‘machines,’ the idea that natural processes could have made a living system is untenable. Biochemist Dr Michael Behe uses the term ‘irreducible complexity’ in describing such biochemical ‘machines.’


Richard Dawkins recognizes this problem of needing ‘machinery’ to start with when he states:



And yet Dawkins, as is his right, still believes in, that is he has faith in, the idea that somehow blind physics has led to such complex biological design. I wouldn't call him a loony, though I don't see the logic in his belief.

Just my opinion.

Like most of us, you believe what you choose to believe.

 

[Tiki Tom]

So, the FL consensus seems to be that, yes, proof/announcement of the existence of aliens would seriously undermine religious views worldwide, thus causing instability AND shaking up downstream assumptions about reality and everything else, including society. Not sure I’m 100% convinced, but I guess I can go along with that view. This argument is usually coupled with a military secrecy argument that more-or-less says: it’s a race to figure out advanced alien technology; and we don’t want to concede ANY information about it to our earthly adversaries. Combine those two arguments and you have, supposedly, the reason why the government is hiding UFO secrets.

So, what has changed? Why the sudden creation of several official bodies to investigate and report on the issue? (Next report to Congress is next Monday, Halloween.) Why the new law to create protections for UFO whistle-blowers? Seems odd. The turning point seems to have been the Dec 2017 NYTimes article that revealed that the gov still had a secret program to study UFOs, revealed the USS Nimitz “tic-tac UFO” footage, and hinted that we might possess some otherworldly “alloys”. What’s going on? Why now?

 

[Tiki Tom]

The topic is a tangled maze of rumors, solid information, and what is (presumably) fantasy. Sorting through it, it is easy to indulge the fun vanity that we are doing research on Cutting-edge subject matter of great importance. And MAYBE that is exactly what we are doing. (!! !!)

Where do you stand on the “Eric Davis/Admiral Wilson Memo”? As you can see, it is included in the official congressional record:

https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-20220517-SD001.pdf

background: Ph.d and Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was also a keen ufo researcher. After he died, someone was going through his mountains of ufo research and discovered the Davis/Wilson Memo. The memo is, supposedly, notes taken by Davis about a 2002 meeting He had had with Admiral Wilson who was then Director of the DIA. In short, the memo says that Wilson complained about trying to gain entry to a top secret SAP (Special Access Program) about UFOs and was DENIED access. The memo makes clear that, specifically, the SAP was about an ongoing attempt to back-engineer a crashed ufo that the government has in its possession.

In the time since the memo was leaked, Wilson has denied its authenticity (of course). Davis has said “no comment.” Detractors have said the memo is a fake. Other researchers have said they have verified a lot of the other information that the memo contains.

At the last UAP briefing to Congress, a congressman asked about the memo. The DOD presenter responded that he wasn’t aware of the memo. Please look into it.

How is this NOT more fun than a barrel of monkeys? Am looking forward to the next installment next Monday.

 

[Canuck Panda]

 

[Who?]

It is my belief that a train of impeccable logic can lead to a conclusion which is not only wrong but absurd.

Internal consistency does not creat truth, and if the fundamental premise is faulty, all else from that point on is nonsense.

Experimental results or physical evidence outweigh the most erudite argument.

 

[Tiki Tom]

Man’s house possibly destroyed by a meteorite.
somebody needs to check this guys karma level.
I guess when your number is up, your number is up.

https://www.kcra.com/article/nevada...eteorite-destroyed-california-house/41877019#

 

[Tiki Tom]

It turns out that —contrary to what we were taught in school— our sun is NOT a typical, average, nondescript star. There are two sextillion stars in the observable universe. Our sun is in the 90th percentile in a lot of important ways. This news slightly tweaks the way I look at the universe.

https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/sun-typical-star/

 

[Tiki Tom]

Energized by the success of the latest orbital telescope, the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), NASA has announced the early planning phase of “The Habitable Worlds Observatory (HWO)”. As it’s name suggests, it’s mission will be to closely examine all those earth-like planets located in Goldilocks zones in distant galaxies. The new orbital telescope will cost billions and won’t be ready until the 2040s. The search for life in distant solar systems continues …it seems to be building steam in fact.

https://www.science.org/content/art...llion-dollar-telescope-find-life-alien-worlds

 

[Tiki Tom]

So —-getting back to an earlier topic— how reliable is this source? What degree of reliability should we assign to this? On the one hand, Washington leaks like a sieve, and these leaks (toward the end of the article) are vague enough to be plausible. Specifically, the source claims that, in response to the new law, whistleblowers are indeed coming forward, that the military is sitting on several clear images of UAPs, and that, yes, the fabled back-engineering special access program does in fact exist. On the other hand, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. By that standard, this article again falls short. Still, for what it is worth, a leak is a leak.

https://www.liberationtimes.com/hom...nologies-that-seem-to-defy-the-law-of-physics