gcollins
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by the way, what does Graham say about this year's felt composition? Similar to last year: beaver/nutira/hare?
How do we know?
How do we know?
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OPTIMO FALL COLORS 2004
- Thread starter Andykev
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And Art would probably know better than I regarding the term. I know that many old Stetsons were "clear beaver" and "clear nutria". It could just be a term used to describe it as being very good fur.
SHARPETOYS
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I found this on the net
Collecting the Fur
Hat bodies are made of animal fur. Raw fur is primarily accumulated from rabbit and beaver although it may also contain other furs like nutria, mink and chinchilla. Beaver fur is still the most popular fur for felt hats. Pure, undyed beaver fur, known as "clear hair", is some of the better fur on the market. Beaver fur is very dense, holds its shape, has more oil, felts together tighter, and repels water better than blends of rabbit fur felt. By "fur" we refer to the downy under-fur of these animals, not the long, coarse hair commonly known as "fur". Only this under-fur has barb-like projections on the surface of each fiber that will lock the fibers together to make a strong felt. The long hairs are pulled out or sheared off, and the remaining under-fur is chemically treated to raise up the microscopic barbs for better felting. The under-fur is then cut from the skin and separated into grades to be used for different qualities of hats. The length and quality of fur is measured in "rings" with the tip ends usually being discarded because of split ends and the ring closest the skin often being too oily to permit uniform coloration.
Collecting the Fur
Hat bodies are made of animal fur. Raw fur is primarily accumulated from rabbit and beaver although it may also contain other furs like nutria, mink and chinchilla. Beaver fur is still the most popular fur for felt hats. Pure, undyed beaver fur, known as "clear hair", is some of the better fur on the market. Beaver fur is very dense, holds its shape, has more oil, felts together tighter, and repels water better than blends of rabbit fur felt. By "fur" we refer to the downy under-fur of these animals, not the long, coarse hair commonly known as "fur". Only this under-fur has barb-like projections on the surface of each fiber that will lock the fibers together to make a strong felt. The long hairs are pulled out or sheared off, and the remaining under-fur is chemically treated to raise up the microscopic barbs for better felting. The under-fur is then cut from the skin and separated into grades to be used for different qualities of hats. The length and quality of fur is measured in "rings" with the tip ends usually being discarded because of split ends and the ring closest the skin often being too oily to permit uniform coloration.
SHARPETOYS
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Zohar wrote
It's only $50 more than the GH "sterling beaver".
I wasn't planning on getting one, but my Dad offered to get each of us kids something nice with his recent winnings, so that's what I went with.
Wow, thats a real good price!!!!!!!!!!
Have you got your new Optimo yet. I also ordered another hat from this master. These Optimo hats are out of this world aren't they!
It's only $50 more than the GH "sterling beaver".
I wasn't planning on getting one, but my Dad offered to get each of us kids something nice with his recent winnings, so that's what I went with.
Wow, thats a real good price!!!!!!!!!!
Have you got your new Optimo yet. I also ordered another hat from this master. These Optimo hats are out of this world aren't they!
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Not yet. Since they only make 8 hats a day, mine is not due to ship till Nov 20th.
I'm in complete agreement with you. In my opinion, Graham has some of the best felt out there, styles that just aren't found any other place today, and customer service that is top notch.
I'm in complete agreement with you. In my opinion, Graham has some of the best felt out there, styles that just aren't found any other place today, and customer service that is top notch.
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Optimo Arrival
My Midnight Blue Optimo should arrive next week. I just confirmed the crown style and ribbon color yesterday. It likely will ship out today from Chicago. With the holiday tomorrow and the weekend, I expect it won't arrive for a full week.
I will post pics and a review of the hat when it arrives.
My Midnight Blue Optimo should arrive next week. I just confirmed the crown style and ribbon color yesterday. It likely will ship out today from Chicago. With the holiday tomorrow and the weekend, I expect it won't arrive for a full week.
I will post pics and a review of the hat when it arrives.
SHARPETOYS
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Optimo Arrival
Yet accordig to the Keystone Cop, they are far worse that the GH hats.
Actually, GH is calling Optimo hats pieces of s***!
MY piece of s*** should arrive this week, in Midnight Blue. I will post pics' and you will get an unbiased (biased?) review
Opinions are like Arse Holes.
We all have one, its just some are bigger than others.
I think yours is most likely a normal one, so i'll trust your REVIEW.
Its a sad state when you have to hawk your product by putting every one else down that makes them or even buys the product.
My dad used to say. Some are sicker than others.
You would think the healthy person could help the sick person?
Wrong in real life.
The Sick person makes the healthy person as sick or sicker than they are
They can't be happy unless they cause trouble for others
Whats even
" SICKER IS PEOPLE THAT EDGE THEM OWN AND THEY THINK ITS FUNNY"!!!!!!!!!!.
WELL IT MAY BE FUNNY TO THEM BUT ITS NOT RIGHT TO HURT OTHERS.
Its really true. Sad but true.
Yet accordig to the Keystone Cop, they are far worse that the GH hats.
Actually, GH is calling Optimo hats pieces of s***!
MY piece of s*** should arrive this week, in Midnight Blue. I will post pics' and you will get an unbiased (biased?) review
Opinions are like Arse Holes.
We all have one, its just some are bigger than others.
I think yours is most likely a normal one, so i'll trust your REVIEW.
Its a sad state when you have to hawk your product by putting every one else down that makes them or even buys the product.
My dad used to say. Some are sicker than others.
You would think the healthy person could help the sick person?
Wrong in real life.
The Sick person makes the healthy person as sick or sicker than they are
They can't be happy unless they cause trouble for others
Whats even
" SICKER IS PEOPLE THAT EDGE THEM OWN AND THEY THINK ITS FUNNY"!!!!!!!!!!.
WELL IT MAY BE FUNNY TO THEM BUT ITS NOT RIGHT TO HURT OTHERS.
Its really true. Sad but true.
gcollins
One of the Regulars
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- 270
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- Shanghai, China
Good comments, Shapeytoys. I too find that you can't build your reputation or a good busness by trying to badmouth others' businesses. It catches up with you.
But I'll tell you. I've been working with Charlie Swindall of Gladhatter, and I think I understand him a little now. He just wants to be honest and likes people to be honest too. He is a piece of work on forums--that's for sure. He writes EXACTLY what's on his mind.
But he is just a straighttalking guy--he thinks that Graham is lying about the composition of the Optimo felt, that there may not be any beaver at all in that hat. I don't know. That he suspects that Graham misleads customers pisses off a guy like Charlie. And if we were to find out that we were paying $400 bucks for a rabbit hat, we would not be happy. that's pretty much the point, I think.
And while I would have to work more with Graham on another hat to get to know his customer service better--my first experience with Optimo and the product was only okay--charlie's is unbelievable! He'll hit you with e-mail after e-mail with high quality photos of the hat in progress to get your buy-off on each step. If you tell him that you want 5 photos for every step, the guy does it. I tell EXACTLY what dimensions I want in the hat--he sends me a photo with the hat telling me that the finished hat does not come out to my specs, so he'll re-do the hat. What he referred to was a measurement that I wanted in 2.5 inches came out to 2.4857 inches! You need to talk to him on the phone. He is really a great service guy. So far, Trent Johnson is the best I've experieinced when it comes to a first hat expereince--service and hat. I have worked with 5 so far.
One key element that Graham may be missing. I found that Graham was good on the phone, but I did not get any confirmations or communications on the e-mails I sent them. They did not tell me my hat would be hairy, for example. A simple e-mail asking me in china would have been expected.
I'm going to test that Gladhatter hat soon, and I'd love to feel that next to the clear beaver of Graham's. Charlie's hat is less expensive or about the same price, radical belly beaver, and 100% hand made by him and his wife. We'll see if it lives up to its reputation among owners. I'll report back.
Regards,
G
But I'll tell you. I've been working with Charlie Swindall of Gladhatter, and I think I understand him a little now. He just wants to be honest and likes people to be honest too. He is a piece of work on forums--that's for sure. He writes EXACTLY what's on his mind.
But he is just a straighttalking guy--he thinks that Graham is lying about the composition of the Optimo felt, that there may not be any beaver at all in that hat. I don't know. That he suspects that Graham misleads customers pisses off a guy like Charlie. And if we were to find out that we were paying $400 bucks for a rabbit hat, we would not be happy. that's pretty much the point, I think.
And while I would have to work more with Graham on another hat to get to know his customer service better--my first experience with Optimo and the product was only okay--charlie's is unbelievable! He'll hit you with e-mail after e-mail with high quality photos of the hat in progress to get your buy-off on each step. If you tell him that you want 5 photos for every step, the guy does it. I tell EXACTLY what dimensions I want in the hat--he sends me a photo with the hat telling me that the finished hat does not come out to my specs, so he'll re-do the hat. What he referred to was a measurement that I wanted in 2.5 inches came out to 2.4857 inches! You need to talk to him on the phone. He is really a great service guy. So far, Trent Johnson is the best I've experieinced when it comes to a first hat expereince--service and hat. I have worked with 5 so far.
One key element that Graham may be missing. I found that Graham was good on the phone, but I did not get any confirmations or communications on the e-mails I sent them. They did not tell me my hat would be hairy, for example. A simple e-mail asking me in china would have been expected.
I'm going to test that Gladhatter hat soon, and I'd love to feel that next to the clear beaver of Graham's. Charlie's hat is less expensive or about the same price, radical belly beaver, and 100% hand made by him and his wife. We'll see if it lives up to its reputation among owners. I'll report back.
Regards,
G
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Not computer people I guess
GCollins wrote "One key element that Graham may be missing. I found that Graham was good on the phone, but I did not get any confirmations or communications on the e-mails I sent them. They did not tell me my hat would be hairy, for example. A simple e-mail asking me in china would have been expected."
I had the same concern when I first became a customer, and asked why they didn't do more on the computer. Simple, they don't operate that way. Not much in emails nor web site. Supposedly they are having their web site updated to include what you mentioned above: pictures, descriptions, ordering information, prices..etc.
They are mostly "word of mouth" and known in the local Chicago area. Also, they have good customer base with some retailers. I assume they are making plenty of hats based upon their scale of operatons. I don't think they want to or can be a mass producer or company like www.millerhats.com type of place.
At least they stand behind their work. But I know how you feel, in China. I cringe every time I send something to them for cleaning or repair or whatever. The postage is about $20 just to get it there! I wish they were close to me, but that is just a pipe dream.
GCollins wrote "One key element that Graham may be missing. I found that Graham was good on the phone, but I did not get any confirmations or communications on the e-mails I sent them. They did not tell me my hat would be hairy, for example. A simple e-mail asking me in china would have been expected."
I had the same concern when I first became a customer, and asked why they didn't do more on the computer. Simple, they don't operate that way. Not much in emails nor web site. Supposedly they are having their web site updated to include what you mentioned above: pictures, descriptions, ordering information, prices..etc.
They are mostly "word of mouth" and known in the local Chicago area. Also, they have good customer base with some retailers. I assume they are making plenty of hats based upon their scale of operatons. I don't think they want to or can be a mass producer or company like www.millerhats.com type of place.
At least they stand behind their work. But I know how you feel, in China. I cringe every time I send something to them for cleaning or repair or whatever. The postage is about $20 just to get it there! I wish they were close to me, but that is just a pipe dream.
SHARPETOYS
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gcollins wrote
Good comments, Shapeytoys. I too find that you can't build your reputation or a good busness by trying to badmouth others' businesses. It catches up with you.
But I'll tell you. I've been working with Charlie Swindall of Gladhatter, and I think I understand him a little now. He just wants to be honest and likes people to be honest too. He is a piece of work on forums--that's for sure. He writes EXACTLY what's on his mind.
G, One business is a retail one is a internet. One has high over head one has low overhead ( works from home).
One wants a local nich market the other wants a (world internet market).
One does business with a store front, yellow pages,cable and newspaper ads and a loyal customer base. Time on pics and email is limited. Has a store to run.
One sets up web sites joins forums and trys to stay center stage by putting down others and competition. In general a trouble maker.( But calls it truth) Has time for tons of emails, phone calls. Works from home.
Calls it customer service . I call it selling.
Since i have control over where i spend my money i can also choose who i want to deal with.
Hat making isn;t rocket science.
The cost of materials is very small compared to the price that most hatters sell them for. You are paying for their skill to make your hat.
It stands to reason if you work from your home you could sell your product at a lesser cost. I haven't seen that on a GH hat.
Price way up there calls it (sterling beaver )
I call it a marketing plan. Has cheaper stock on Ebay. His advertising firm.
If you buy or ask a question he will try to sell you up to a custom hat.
If you ask about another brand or hatter thet are junk or they make junk.
Everybody else makes crap hat and buyers of crap hats are fags, queers, getting a kick back and on and on it goes.
In general just real stupid and he wants to save us from ourselves.
I'm a grown man i don't need saving.
I guess G a hat isn't that important to me. I would rather have several in different styles blends etc. I can change hats offten and if the ole cheap rabbitt wears out i'll just get another.
GH can't understand why anyone would buy from Optimo.
I'll tell you why. They are a CLASS ACT and don't make a living off putting others down.
I guess G i'm one of the dumb ones and the more you put others down the more i will support that company. (Even out of spite)
Do i believe whats he says? No. He will baffle you with bullshit and twist the rest.
I wish you well on your purchase. I won't ever buy from him. Ever.
Good comments, Shapeytoys. I too find that you can't build your reputation or a good busness by trying to badmouth others' businesses. It catches up with you.
But I'll tell you. I've been working with Charlie Swindall of Gladhatter, and I think I understand him a little now. He just wants to be honest and likes people to be honest too. He is a piece of work on forums--that's for sure. He writes EXACTLY what's on his mind.
G, One business is a retail one is a internet. One has high over head one has low overhead ( works from home).
One wants a local nich market the other wants a (world internet market).
One does business with a store front, yellow pages,cable and newspaper ads and a loyal customer base. Time on pics and email is limited. Has a store to run.
One sets up web sites joins forums and trys to stay center stage by putting down others and competition. In general a trouble maker.( But calls it truth) Has time for tons of emails, phone calls. Works from home.
Calls it customer service . I call it selling.
Since i have control over where i spend my money i can also choose who i want to deal with.
Hat making isn;t rocket science.
The cost of materials is very small compared to the price that most hatters sell them for. You are paying for their skill to make your hat.
It stands to reason if you work from your home you could sell your product at a lesser cost. I haven't seen that on a GH hat.
Price way up there calls it (sterling beaver )
I call it a marketing plan. Has cheaper stock on Ebay. His advertising firm.
If you buy or ask a question he will try to sell you up to a custom hat.
If you ask about another brand or hatter thet are junk or they make junk.
Everybody else makes crap hat and buyers of crap hats are fags, queers, getting a kick back and on and on it goes.
In general just real stupid and he wants to save us from ourselves.
I'm a grown man i don't need saving.
I guess G a hat isn't that important to me. I would rather have several in different styles blends etc. I can change hats offten and if the ole cheap rabbitt wears out i'll just get another.
GH can't understand why anyone would buy from Optimo.
I'll tell you why. They are a CLASS ACT and don't make a living off putting others down.
I guess G i'm one of the dumb ones and the more you put others down the more i will support that company. (Even out of spite)
Do i believe whats he says? No. He will baffle you with bullshit and twist the rest.
I wish you well on your purchase. I won't ever buy from him. Ever.
gcollins
One of the Regulars
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- Shanghai, China
hi sharpeytoys:
Yep, good points all. Yes, I have also guessed that since Graham is the biggest in the business (or so it seems), he must have a huge word of mouth business. And absolutely a great way to make money in a dying industry, with few custom hatters of quality left. I really applaud that business model.
As Kev wrote, he is also updating his website--that will double his market presence.
But his challenge is: how do you maintain and grow a "custom" business while growing volume and scale? A custom product like a hat is highly personal--you need intense interaction with a customer to make sure the product you get is exactly what the customer wants or figured out he needed.
Charlie I figured out is schitzophrenic. He maintains a very custom hat business, while venturing out into other business models via the web. And that message gets confused sometimes with the e-bay Borsos, and the standard internet stock brands, etc.
But perhaps style is everything--as we hat guys inately understand. Some may not like him, but I generally try to be objective as possible (if possible) while searching for the perfect hat and first hat experieince. I have also told him about the XXX business that I don't like, and yes he is a salesman--he will talk you into upgrading, or getting another hat. But I'm used to that in Asia, and it is fun to negotiate and make deals with him. He is selling himself and his products to make money--if he does it well, makes a great hat that has market and customer satisfaction, then something works well. If not, then he will go out of business or lose money. Time will tell.
But for now, I'll take that black belly beaver, try the product, and review both the customer service and the hat quality. I'll go from there in making future decisions. Expectations are very high for his belly beaver hats--I don't know anyone who does not rave about his high-end hats. They aren't cheap, so they better be great or I'll return it, have him-remake it, or ask for a refund. but I want a great out-of-the-box hat experieince, and high service level upfront so far has set up a strong chance that he will deliver.
We'll see!
Andy, can't wait to see that midnight blue!
G
Yep, good points all. Yes, I have also guessed that since Graham is the biggest in the business (or so it seems), he must have a huge word of mouth business. And absolutely a great way to make money in a dying industry, with few custom hatters of quality left. I really applaud that business model.
As Kev wrote, he is also updating his website--that will double his market presence.
But his challenge is: how do you maintain and grow a "custom" business while growing volume and scale? A custom product like a hat is highly personal--you need intense interaction with a customer to make sure the product you get is exactly what the customer wants or figured out he needed.
Charlie I figured out is schitzophrenic. He maintains a very custom hat business, while venturing out into other business models via the web. And that message gets confused sometimes with the e-bay Borsos, and the standard internet stock brands, etc.
But perhaps style is everything--as we hat guys inately understand. Some may not like him, but I generally try to be objective as possible (if possible) while searching for the perfect hat and first hat experieince. I have also told him about the XXX business that I don't like, and yes he is a salesman--he will talk you into upgrading, or getting another hat. But I'm used to that in Asia, and it is fun to negotiate and make deals with him. He is selling himself and his products to make money--if he does it well, makes a great hat that has market and customer satisfaction, then something works well. If not, then he will go out of business or lose money. Time will tell.
But for now, I'll take that black belly beaver, try the product, and review both the customer service and the hat quality. I'll go from there in making future decisions. Expectations are very high for his belly beaver hats--I don't know anyone who does not rave about his high-end hats. They aren't cheap, so they better be great or I'll return it, have him-remake it, or ask for a refund. but I want a great out-of-the-box hat experieince, and high service level upfront so far has set up a strong chance that he will deliver.
We'll see!
Andy, can't wait to see that midnight blue!
G
SHARPETOYS
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gcollins wrote
Charlie I figured out is "schitzophrenic". He maintains a very custom hat business, while venturing out into other business models via the web. And that message gets confused sometimes with the e-bay Borsos, and the standard internet stock brands, etc.
I have a friend that sold cars. I went to see him one day and he had to me the uglyist color of a car i had ever seen.
I said Andy. Now thats one ugly car!!
He said Roger their is A ass for every seat.
Charlie I figured out is "schitzophrenic". He maintains a very custom hat business, while venturing out into other business models via the web. And that message gets confused sometimes with the e-bay Borsos, and the standard internet stock brands, etc.
I have a friend that sold cars. I went to see him one day and he had to me the uglyist color of a car i had ever seen.
I said Andy. Now thats one ugly car!!
He said Roger their is A ass for every seat.
gcollins
One of the Regulars
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- 270
- Location
- Shanghai, China
You guys crack me up! Has Charlie offended you so deeply? I don't get it, he usually just trashes Optimo. You can't just hate him because he trashes your favorite hat guy. Must be more than that.
What do you think of his hats? At least from the photos. Frankly, I've been driving him to make a nice 40s crown hat and some of his hats lately are some of the best I've seen from him. More vintage fedora than some of the western-inspired hats of a few months ago. the one he made for myron out of the vintage mercury felt is fine fine fine.
All hand-formed mind you, no crown blocks. Take a look at this baby!
What do you think of his hats? At least from the photos. Frankly, I've been driving him to make a nice 40s crown hat and some of his hats lately are some of the best I've seen from him. More vintage fedora than some of the western-inspired hats of a few months ago. the one he made for myron out of the vintage mercury felt is fine fine fine.
All hand-formed mind you, no crown blocks. Take a look at this baby!
SHARPETOYS
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gcollins wrote
You guys crack me up! Has Charlie offended you so deeply? I don't get it, he usually just trashes Optimo. You can't just hate him because he trashes your favorite hat guy. Must be more than that.
What do you think of his hats? At least from the photos. Frankly, I've been driving him to make a nice 40s crown hat and some of his hats lately are some of the best I've seen from him. More vintage fedora than some of the western-inspired hats of a few months ago. the one he made for myron out of the vintage mercury felt is fine fine fine.
All hand-formed mind you, no crown blocks. Take a look at this baby!
Yes sir, much more than that.
Do i hate him? Thats to strong of a word.
Loathe,despise,detest and
dislike might fit better.
I think he's a ego maniac with a inferiority complex.
G.
I thought you knew hats? You are kidding right ? You wrote all hand-formed no crown blocks.
Thats just not true. You have to use a block. Do you think he used his knee? I guess you have fell for his hype.
They say a sucker is born every day.
As far as hats or hatters i truly believe Art and Steve can make just as nice a hat. How do i know . I have them right here.
Did i spend $600 to $800? No under $250.
Just because something cost alot doesn't make it the best.
Enough said
You guys crack me up! Has Charlie offended you so deeply? I don't get it, he usually just trashes Optimo. You can't just hate him because he trashes your favorite hat guy. Must be more than that.
What do you think of his hats? At least from the photos. Frankly, I've been driving him to make a nice 40s crown hat and some of his hats lately are some of the best I've seen from him. More vintage fedora than some of the western-inspired hats of a few months ago. the one he made for myron out of the vintage mercury felt is fine fine fine.
All hand-formed mind you, no crown blocks. Take a look at this baby!
Yes sir, much more than that.
Do i hate him? Thats to strong of a word.
Loathe,despise,detest and
dislike might fit better.
I think he's a ego maniac with a inferiority complex.
G.
I thought you knew hats? You are kidding right ? You wrote all hand-formed no crown blocks.
Thats just not true. You have to use a block. Do you think he used his knee? I guess you have fell for his hype.
They say a sucker is born every day.
As far as hats or hatters i truly believe Art and Steve can make just as nice a hat. How do i know . I have them right here.
Did i spend $600 to $800? No under $250.
Just because something cost alot doesn't make it the best.
Enough said
gcollins
One of the Regulars
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Hi Sharpey:
Sorry to set you off, brother! The more I live the more I realize how little I know. I don't know much. But I know a great hat when I wear one or hold one...and a little something about hat materials, and mostly I enjoy the journey with you and others.
I do indeed agree with you on the pricing for hats! I'm Asian in my buying habits: I don't engage the seller and defeat him. I defeat him and then engage him. LOL
I guess I misled you about the hat in the photo, the crown is blocked open of course, but the teardrop crease and dimple work is hand done. Nice work! I saw some photos of Dalia making a crease like this for another hat--it was pretty cool.
Anyway, I apologize again for setting you off. There's no need to apologize for your personal comments. I understand the invested emotion completely. If it's okay with you, we'll just end here.
We can talk about hats in other threads.
See you there,
G
Sorry to set you off, brother! The more I live the more I realize how little I know. I don't know much. But I know a great hat when I wear one or hold one...and a little something about hat materials, and mostly I enjoy the journey with you and others.
I do indeed agree with you on the pricing for hats! I'm Asian in my buying habits: I don't engage the seller and defeat him. I defeat him and then engage him. LOL
I guess I misled you about the hat in the photo, the crown is blocked open of course, but the teardrop crease and dimple work is hand done. Nice work! I saw some photos of Dalia making a crease like this for another hat--it was pretty cool.
Anyway, I apologize again for setting you off. There's no need to apologize for your personal comments. I understand the invested emotion completely. If it's okay with you, we'll just end here.
We can talk about hats in other threads.
See you there,
G
SHARPETOYS
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PM sent
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Hi, G --
Wanted you to see my new ivory creme fedora. It is a beauty, so soft and lovely. I will try to download some photos for all to see.
karol
Wanted you to see my new ivory creme fedora. It is a beauty, so soft and lovely. I will try to download some photos for all to see.
karol
K.D. Lightner
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- Location
- Des Moines, IA
Still huge, even after I altered it. I am not sure how to reduce the jpg files a friend sent me. I have two more to send of my new hat, side views of the hat brim snapped up in back and one with it down.
Will try to figure out how to get these photos down to a workable size.
Anyway, I love my new hat!
karol
Will try to figure out how to get these photos down to a workable size.
Anyway, I love my new hat!
karol
- Messages
- 3,661
If I recall correctly, the blend for this year's felts are the same as last year's (49% beaver, 49% nutria, 2% hare). I believe that only the weight of the felt has changed. Lightweight got a little bit heavier, and I think heavyweight got a little bit lighter.
Graham doesn't really push the Toffee beaver felt. When I first talked to him about it, he said that it was an option if a person really desired a beaver felt. They usually offer only one or two full beaver colors each year, and most people don't go for them.
I didn't get into whether or not he thinks the blend is better than the beaver, but I think some other guys around here have had that conversation with him before. He said that probably 99% of all people buying his hats never ask once about the felt content; only guys on the internet seem to be worried about it. For my money, Graham Thompson makes some of the finest hats available today, and in styles that just aren't done by other hatters. I am probably by no stretch Graham's "average" customer. I am a young, rural guy with not a lot of dough to spend on hats. I have been treated like their best customer, and have received hats of a superlative quality.
I really don't want to even go into this, but as for Charlie, when he first got here, he said that Graham's bodies were nothing special, and we are all being decieved, because the hat industry is a small one, and he knew where everybody bought their bodies, what they were made out of, and what they cost.
Now that others have found out about what Charlie's bodies cost, and where he gets his supplies, he is saying: "Now wait a minute... you don't know anything! I get my hat bodies from someplace special, that no other hatters are privy to... these new hatters on the block don't know anything about my felt or business practices!", when previously, the hat business was "so small", that "everybody knows everybody's business".
However, talking about other vendors isn't just what got Charlie banned; he berated members here and other forums, and was particulaly nasty and antagonistic when he spewed his gutter talk toward women here on the forums, and over the phone.
Folks can be assured that they will be able to post about their new hats from GH (whether or not the hats are made by him, or a real hatter in Wyoming or Idaho is debatable...many of "his" hats aren't made by him), as much as they want, but he himself will never be welcome to post here because he is a vile, utterly disgusting hypocrite.
In the words of my good friend Matt Deckard, He is the Kim Jong-il of hatters.
Graham doesn't really push the Toffee beaver felt. When I first talked to him about it, he said that it was an option if a person really desired a beaver felt. They usually offer only one or two full beaver colors each year, and most people don't go for them.
I didn't get into whether or not he thinks the blend is better than the beaver, but I think some other guys around here have had that conversation with him before. He said that probably 99% of all people buying his hats never ask once about the felt content; only guys on the internet seem to be worried about it. For my money, Graham Thompson makes some of the finest hats available today, and in styles that just aren't done by other hatters. I am probably by no stretch Graham's "average" customer. I am a young, rural guy with not a lot of dough to spend on hats. I have been treated like their best customer, and have received hats of a superlative quality.
I really don't want to even go into this, but as for Charlie, when he first got here, he said that Graham's bodies were nothing special, and we are all being decieved, because the hat industry is a small one, and he knew where everybody bought their bodies, what they were made out of, and what they cost.
Now that others have found out about what Charlie's bodies cost, and where he gets his supplies, he is saying: "Now wait a minute... you don't know anything! I get my hat bodies from someplace special, that no other hatters are privy to... these new hatters on the block don't know anything about my felt or business practices!", when previously, the hat business was "so small", that "everybody knows everybody's business".
However, talking about other vendors isn't just what got Charlie banned; he berated members here and other forums, and was particulaly nasty and antagonistic when he spewed his gutter talk toward women here on the forums, and over the phone.
Folks can be assured that they will be able to post about their new hats from GH (whether or not the hats are made by him, or a real hatter in Wyoming or Idaho is debatable...many of "his" hats aren't made by him), as much as they want, but he himself will never be welcome to post here because he is a vile, utterly disgusting hypocrite.
In the words of my good friend Matt Deckard, He is the Kim Jong-il of hatters.
gcollins
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 270
- Location
- Shanghai, China
Karol, you are stylin' in thoese pics. Great unique look with that hat color. Wish I could get away with looking good in a lighter hat color.
Zohar, very nice post, and a succinct reply to the issues with GH or others.
Interesting comment that the only people that care about felt composition seem to be internet hat people. I have suspected that, and by NOT focusing on hat felt compositions or emphasizing that in the sales process, Optimo has shown to be successful as have some others. They can focus on what the customers want: a great hat. Competitors may want to argue that the felt is good or bad, but the point may be closer to what Graham said: most customers (few of us on the FL or SBS are not in that group) don't care and don't make buying decisions based on actual felt composition.
The western hat community seems to care more about 100% beaver vs. other furs, and I wonder if that is because for the western hat market there are more choices. With Fedoras, there just isn't many custom hatters--and when some good service guy shows you great colors, styles and custom fits a hat to your head--and when the fur felt feels and looks good, is reasonable water repellancy...what hat afficionado would not like that?
Is it fair to say that the lack of good and easily accessible makers keeps the market away from having to try to differentiate itself with perceived felt quality options? In an older world of hatters in every town, they would need a different differentiator than great service and custom fit and materials and craftsmanship that are at least far better than stock store options?
Perhaps it is so. I know don't much but continue to have lots of questions. But through questioning, perhaps some things become clearer for would-be hatters and the continued development of the industry's business models--if that's at all possible.
G
Zohar, very nice post, and a succinct reply to the issues with GH or others.
Interesting comment that the only people that care about felt composition seem to be internet hat people. I have suspected that, and by NOT focusing on hat felt compositions or emphasizing that in the sales process, Optimo has shown to be successful as have some others. They can focus on what the customers want: a great hat. Competitors may want to argue that the felt is good or bad, but the point may be closer to what Graham said: most customers (few of us on the FL or SBS are not in that group) don't care and don't make buying decisions based on actual felt composition.
The western hat community seems to care more about 100% beaver vs. other furs, and I wonder if that is because for the western hat market there are more choices. With Fedoras, there just isn't many custom hatters--and when some good service guy shows you great colors, styles and custom fits a hat to your head--and when the fur felt feels and looks good, is reasonable water repellancy...what hat afficionado would not like that?
Is it fair to say that the lack of good and easily accessible makers keeps the market away from having to try to differentiate itself with perceived felt quality options? In an older world of hatters in every town, they would need a different differentiator than great service and custom fit and materials and craftsmanship that are at least far better than stock store options?
Perhaps it is so. I know don't much but continue to have lots of questions. But through questioning, perhaps some things become clearer for would-be hatters and the continued development of the industry's business models--if that's at all possible.
G
