Opinions Please on this Black, Heavy Wool Twill DB Jacket?

[Warbaby]

I found this jacket yesterday - a very heavy, hard finished wool twill. Not old enough to be really vintage (dated 1965) but still a beautifully made jacket with high, tight armholes, buttonholes in both lapels and functional buttonholes on the cuffs. Is anyone familiar with the maker? Bespoke or just MTM? Opinions please?

(Photo lightened to show detail - it's actually very black)

 

[cptjeff]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a Saville row blazer that's hand numbered and identified with a date stamp is almost certainly bespoke.

Nice find. I'm not really a fan of DB blazers, but if it works for you, great.

Oh, and the maker is one half of the shop that's still at #1 Saville row- Gieves and Hawkes. They still have royal warrants and make a good portion of Prince Charles' wardrobe. Needless to say, they have a pretty high standard of quality.

 

[Tomasso]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong,

There's only one L in Savile Row....



Yep, it's bespoke from one of the oldest names in British tailoring. They moved to 1 Savile Row around a century ago and merged with Gieves & Co. in 1974.

Nice find.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There's only one L in Savile Row....

A common mistake to be fixed.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.



When southern Spaniards have a brawl, it's a Seville row.


.

 

[Warbaby]

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

 

[Warbaby]

I was examining the construction details tonight and discovered something I hadn't noticed before - there are functioning buttonholes on both sides of the front so it can be lapped over either to the left or the right and both sets of buttonholes have obviously been used. What's up with that?

 

[Cobden]

That's not uncommon with high quality blazer's; it comes from naval tradition - RN no 5 jackets (reefer jackets) have button holes to facilitate fastening both ways, yet the buttons on the left side are plugged, thus in effect meaning fastening it backwards is impossible. I believe this comes from the earliest naval officers uniforms, on which the coat was fastened back onto it's own buttons on it's own side (like many coats of the era)

What is interesting is the monogrammed buttons. With a monogramme of someone who isn't the owner...

 

[BellyTank]

I believe this comes from the earliest naval officers uniforms, on which the coat was fastened back onto it's own buttons on it's own side (like many coats of the era).

I'm glad this fact has been mentioned and I'm glad it was you, Cobden,
whom-entioned it.
It may answer many questions about the nature of DB-ness and buttons.


B
T

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... there are functioning buttonholes on both sides of the front so it can be lapped over either to the left or the right and both sets of buttonholes have obviously been used. What's up with that?

That's not uncommon with high quality blazer's; it comes from naval tradition - RN no 5 jackets (reefer jackets) have button holes to facilitate fastening both ways, ...

Origins of this...


When you're standing watch on the exposed deck of a ship, you want to protect yourself well from the wind -- no matter which direction it's blowing. The wind's direction determines which direction you'll lap the double-breasted coat. (Blowing from left to right? Lap your coat from left to right. Blowing from right to left? Lap your coat from right to left.)


At least that's what an old salt in the U.S. Navy once told me...


.

 

[Cobden]

Origins of this...


When you're standing watch on the exposed deck of a ship, you want to protect yourself well from the wind -- no matter which direction it's blowing. The wind's direction determines which direction you'll lap the double-breasted coat. (Blowing from left to right? Lap your coat from left to right. Blowing from right to left? Lap your coat from right to left.)


At least that's what an old salt in the U.S. Navy once told me...


.

It's a theory I've heard as well, and does make some sense, especially during the frock coat era. The later frock coats with the open neck (shewing collar and tie) had buttons holes corresponding to buttons that were never fastened (effectively, meaning two or three lapel holes on each lapel). My personal view is that this is the reason they were maintained, with the origin being more from the fully folded back and buttoned lapels, upon which devices distinguishing rank were displayed, from the Nelsonic and earlier period - quick film still to illustrate!

The Royal Navy had a sort of obsession in keeping as much of the traditions as they could from that that era of naval warfare

 

[Tomasso]

For the answer to the button riddle why not contact the tailor who made the uniforms for Admiral Lord Nelson. Gieves & Hawkes.....

 

[BellyTank]

Pre-Gieves, of course.

 

[BellyTank]

Perhaps, sartori-historically, that more important than being able to button a DB lr, or rl, is the detail, the tradition Cobden mentioned, about both sides/"breasts"(...ooh Matron...) being buttoned back on themselves.


B
T

 

[Warbaby]

Alas (and probably alack, as well), I don't think I'm going to be able to wear it. It fits perfectly everywhere but...it's too short. I don't mind the length of the jacket, and I've tried to convince myself that the sleeves were ok, but after photographing myself wearing it, there's no getting around the fact that the sleeves are too short (see photo and let me know if you agree). And because the cuff buttons have real buttonholes, I can't simply lengthen the sleeves and move the buttons down.

So, if anyone not cursed with monkey arms is interested in it, PM me and we can work out some kind of sale or trade. The size is about a 39-40 short - I'll send measurements if you're interested.

 

[Tomasso]

the sleeves are too short

Yep. But otherwise a pretty nice fit.

 

[Warbaby]

Yep. But otherwise a pretty nice fit.

Yeah, that's the real bummer - it fits like it was made for me, possibly the best fitting jacket I've ever worn. Maybe I could compensate for the sleeve length if I wore shirts with ruffled lace cuffs...

 

[Tomasso]

Maybe I could compensate for the sleeve length if I wore shirts with ruffled lace cuffs...

lol