Open Crown Stetsons: A Call (Plea) to Retailers!!

[Jedwbpm]

Here is a quick picture of the new Premier Stratoliner in Caribou

Jeff

 

[rclark]

Very nice Jeff! The postman can't get here quickly enough with mine!

 

[ManofKent]

Looks good Jeff

 

[g.durand]

I got the Caribou Premiere Strat from Delmonico today. Some first impressions:

Ribbon tacking is similar to the Mink Premiere Strat I got several weeks ago. The photo of the bow shows the most obvious flaw. I would rate the tacking elsewhere as OK--not as good as a vintage or high end custom hat, but no major mistakes other than the bow. The felt quality and color are consistent throughout the hat. The brim is thinner and more pliable than the Mink Strat, yet the crown is thick and stiff. The brim is so pliable that it doesn't snap as much as just fold up and down, and it doesn't really hold the shape I try to give it. Photos show spidering in the first dry creasing, indicating a lot of stiffener. The brim and the crown seem like they are from different hats. I like the blocking and flanging much better in this one than in the Mink version. The crown is taller and the brim curl is tighter. It has more of the original Strat character as far as shape is concerned. The sweatband is made of a good quality, pliable leather. All in all I would rate this one about a 5.5 out of 10. Hatco should work on quality control to get better ribbon work and try to do a better job pouncing and applying stiffener. All in all, it's a keeper and will get some wear. I applied some Kahl Stiffener to the brim tonight in the hope I can re-flange it tomorrow and make it behave.

Delmonico's service is second to none, I might add.

 

[rclark]

Even with the flaws it is a sharp hat and looks good on you. Mine is due to arrive tomorrow so I will be interested to see if mine has any of the issues you are experiencing with your hat.

 

[job]

What do you think of the pin.

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[frussell]

Shame about the quality issues. That "spidering" is something I've encountered on every modern Stetson I've bought in the last 10 years or so. Not sure if that's pouncing, or just not great felt quality. It was really bad on the several Temple models I owned, and on the Nostalgia, which was otherwise a beautiful hat. I had a custom western given to me by a Hatco employee as a gift, really beautiful to look at, but when steam or water in a spray bottle were applied to re-shape a bit, I got the same funky spider creases in the crown. It looks good on you, G. Hopefully they get it together, I'm still holding on to my money for now. Frank.

 

[g.durand]

What do you think of the pin.

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John, having never handled an original pin I can't compare them. The new pin isn't bad. It has some heft for an object that size. It's plated, so I'm not sure how that will hold up. I'll take it off the hat and hope I live long enough for it to become a collector's item!

As for the hat, I put in on the flange this morning after the stiffener dried, buffed the brim afterward with a Scotchbright pad, and the thing isn't half bad. I'm gonna wear it today.


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[g.durand]

Rick, I'll be interested in what you think about yours.


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[hatsRme]

Looks like a keeper for sure, Mike! You KNOW how to wear 'em! Congrats.

Frank, At least when you DO pull the trigger and buy one, you will as I do, get your money's worth. Only in Panama hats (and some shoe brands) do they charge us more for the big ones.

 

[Joshbru3]

That "spidering" is something I've encountered on every modern Stetson I've bought in the last 10 years or so. Not sure if that's pouncing, or just not great felt quality.....

Its the amount of shellac they use, not so much about felt quality. I have spent hours pouncing 1970's Resistol Stage Coach hats to use as conversion fedoras. They are STIFF. When pounced, the finish becomes soft as a peach, block just fine, hold up in all kinds of weather......but still have spidering when creased. The thinner the felt becomes, the less drastic the spidering looks. Stetson's modern felt is pretty thick, therefore the spidering is more noticeable. I have touched on this point before in other threads, but Stetson does NOT need to make their felt so thick and add so much Shellac. They do so because I believe they feel....as many other major hat companies do......more shellac = more durable..... which in turn = a better quality product. A product that will not wrinkle, crease easily, or dent easily. It will keep shape and therefore give the "average" consumer the idea that their product is a good product. The general public has NO clue how to crease hats so if a hat didn't have a good amount of shellac and lost shape easily, the average hat wearer would think of the hat as an inferior product. We at the Lounge know MUCH better obviously.

I have owned many vintage hats that used thin felt and very little shellac....so little shellac in fact that even after steaming, any touch to the crown of the hat would crease or dent the felt (usually lightweight or featherweight felts). Most vintage dress (not lightweight) felts however are somewhere in between. My favorite are the Stetson felts from the 20's. They are easily shaped, firm right up when steam is applied, hold shape, but also allow a re-crease at any time.

Try dry creasing a modern day Stetson cowboy hat.....it doesn't matter weather its a 2x or 1000x quality.....the felt spiders. Its too much Shellac. My 3x Stetson from the late 40's/early 50's creases nicely and does NOT spider. Sure....its stiffer than a dress hat....but honestly not much stiffer. And the felt thickness is only a little thicker than a dress felt from the same era.

Bottom line......most if not all major hat manufactures use WAYYYYYYY to much shellac because like I said before, I believe they feel it makes a more durable product which leads them to believe that its a high quality product. In my mind...and the minds of many others on the lounge.....we know that just isn't so.

Just my .02

 

[John T. Sarto]

I got the Caribou Premiere Strat from Delmonico today. Some first impressions:

Ribbon tacking is similar to the Mink Premiere Strat I got several weeks ago. The photo of the bow shows the most obvious flaw. I would rate the tacking elsewhere as OK--not as good as a vintage or high end custom hat, but no major mistakes other than the bow. The felt quality and color are consistent throughout the hat. The brim is thinner and more pliable than the Mink Strat, yet the crown is thick and stiff. The brim is so pliable that it doesn't snap as much as just fold up and down, and it doesn't really hold the shape I try to give it. Photos show spidering in the first dry creasing, indicating a lot of stiffener. The brim and the crown seem like they are from different hats. I like the blocking and flanging much better in this one than in the Mink version. The crown is taller and the brim curl is tighter. It has more of the original Strat character as far as shape is concerned. The sweatband is made of a good quality, pliable leather. All in all I would rate this one about a 5.5 out of 10. Hatco should work on quality control to get better ribbon work and try to do a better job pouncing and applying stiffener. All in all, it's a keeper and will get some wear. I applied some Kahl Stiffener to the brim tonight in the hope I can re-flange it tomorrow and make it behave.

Delmonico's service is second to none, I might add.

Thanks for posting the pictures and for your review. The hat does look nice dispite the flaws you mentioned. I did buy one of the mink strats and other than the tacking of the ribbon it was fine. I have seen a lot of complaints about that. Why would the brim be so much thinner than the crown? Is that common? I did not notice that with my mink. I am fairly new to wearing felts so I was just wondering.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Try dry creasing a modern day Stetson cowboy hat.....it doesn't matter weather its a 2x or 1000x quality.....the felt spiders. Its too much Shellac. My 3x Stetson from the late 40's/early 50's creases nicely and does NOT spider. Sure....its stiffer than a dress hat....but honestly not much stiffer. And the felt thickness is only a little thicker than a dress felt from the same era.

Bottom line......most if not all major hat manufactures use WAYYYYYYY to much shellac because like I said before, I believe they feel it makes a more durable product which leads them to believe that its a high quality product. In my mind...and the minds of many others on the lounge.....we know that just isn't so.

Just my .02

That's why I have to steam my new Stetsonian every so often just so it will keep the front pinch and side creases that I want.

Brad

 

[Joshbru3]

That's why I have to steam my new Stetsonian every so often just so it will keep the front pinch and side creases that I want.

Brad

Exactly! If Hatco were to cut the shellac by 1/4 or maybe 1/3....the hat would be drastically better.

When I took the tour of the Hatco factory a couple years back, I saw a shellac station where a Hatco employee was adding a good amount of shellac inside the crown of a hat. It was't a fluid as light as water, it had the consistency of honey. I believe it was a western, but still....it was quite a bit. I have watched that 1920's Stetson video a few times already and didn't see them apply anything that resembled that viscous honey shellac compound. Didn't most hat companies run the entire hat body through a solution of diluted shellac to impregnate the body? That would make more sense to me than applying it inside the crown. By soaking the hat body in a diluted shellac liquid, you can impregnate the hat body much better and more evenly than applying a coat of it on the inside of a crown. [huh]

 

[VetPsychWars]

Hm, curious. My mink Stratoliner was soft until I hit it with the steam and then it stiffened up.

Tom

 

[g.durand]

The Mink Premiere Strat I got a while back seems to have fairly consistent shellac application throughout the hat body. The brim and crown are pounced to approximately the same thickness, and are relatively pliable. Steam did stiffen the crown, as expected. The brim has lost a bit of its ability to snap up and down. I may give it a shot of Kahl and see how it reacts.

Again, I hope that someone at Hatco is paying attention here. With some better QC they aren't too far away from making a consistently decent hat. While the Premiere line is an improvement on past product performance, they may lose the demand/economy of scale battle in the long run without some further improvement.


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[MCrider]

This is the hat I've been waiting for. Right now I guiess it's in the prototype stages.



Prototype Stetson Excellent Quality Premiere Whippet. Can't wait to buy in on this one. The Stetsonian and Stratoliner are nice hats, but the Whippets proportions just seem right.

 

[CRH]

Holy dog races, that's a cool hat!

 

[rclark]

Rick, I'll be interested in what you think about yours.


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I got home late so I've just had a little while to inspect it. Like yours, the felt on the brim of my hat is much thinner than the crown. I tried to dry crease it like I did with my Cornhill, but had almost no luck. Too much stiffener in the crown, so spidering is an issue. Also, the sizing was a little off from the fit of my other Premiere Strat, so I had to insert padding under the sweatband. I really love the color of this hat, but this clearly is not the same hat as the other Premiere Strats. I've never had a hat that had such a marked difference in the thickness of the felt in the crown from that in the brim. On the bright side, my one complaint with my Cornhill Premiere Strat was the tacking of the ribbon, which is beautifully stitched on the Caribou. Overall, I am a bit disappointed. Despite these shortcomings, I still like the look of this hat, albeit not nearly as much as my other Premiere Strat.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Thanks for the update, Rick. So a mix of good and not-so-good, as is often the case with modern hats. I may give it a try yet, I don't know. Luckily it's still cool enough here to put off the decision for a while.

It is my opinion that a well snapped brim should be a full 180º of an oval & dead straight from edge to edge and lotsa' straws are reluctant to obey.
What techniques do all of ya'll (yes that IS the plural of "ya'll") use to tame a brim?

Often I will seize the brim at the break at opposite temples & fold it up to the crown for a time, this forces the front of the brim into an exaggerated version of what I described.
Then when released, it MAY assume more of the configuration I desire, i.e.- a high, straight brim break in the "half moon" configuration, swooping, if you will, over the face.
Some have told me the use a tables edge with success too.