On being a "newbie" and the general familiarity of hat quality.

[jamespowers]

It's not a lifestyle, it's a hat.

Like any other item, research and discretion make an informed purchase that maximizes quality within your budget.

Exactly. Think of us as the Consumer Reports for hats.

Regards,

J

 

[Art Fawcett]

Some really good points are being made here and Dumbjaw, I understand the dilema that "newbies" face. These are legitimate concerns and frankly, everyone has to start somewhere, no matter the economic concerns.
John also has a great point as to "levels" that we take things. Myself, I always wore a hat from the time I was an early teen. The fact that I grew up on a golf course didn't hurt as it was common. So, I have a hard time relating to the "first hat" syndrome but I can relate it to other purchases. Nobody wants to feel like they made a mistake in their purchase and it seems that EVERYONE has an opinion or bad experience on something so at least, in this case, that just goes with the territory. What I tell alot of my obsessive clients? Geeze, it's just a hat!! Get over it!! It wont bring world peace, feed the starving, have your children..it's just a hat.
That said I personally have taken it to what I think is the highest level possible. Call it a character flaw. Since I was in the vintage business I'm a collector, wearer, lifestyle ( as much as just a hat can be) right up to creator. Talk about obsessive!! Guy's like myself, JP, Matt Deckard, tonyB, feltfan, et al started the same way. Every one of us have stories of bonehead moves ( OK..I'd better just speak for myself on this one) that we have made and have had to live with, so, please look at the Lounge as a way to eliminate SOME of those mistakes, not all.
This hobby/lifestyle/fashion statement is supposed to be fun and I suppose that we sometimes forget that. I hope not often, but we do. At any rate...get over it, it's just a hat

 

[griffer]

At any rate...get over it, it's just a hat

:eusa_clap lol

 

[jamespowers]

At any rate...get over it, it's just a hat

Its not just a hat---its an Vintage Silhouettes creation.
Yes, I have made some bone head moves just like everyone else. Art fixed all of them though.
That being said, when I make a mistake, I find it encumbent upon me to try to help others avoid the same pitfalls. I could say nothing and go along to get along but that means there will be some poor beginner who gets discouraged because he didn't know better from the start.
I still have my first hat--a 1940s purple tinged Whippet to remind me. It was cleaned a little too much by an overzealous hat cleaner. :eusa_doh: If I had the resources we have here back then, it would still look decent. I only paid $20 for it back then but I didn't mean to sacrifice the hat to my inexperience at the time. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

[tonyb]

Quite the provocative post there, Dumbjaw. Literally.
So many insightful observations made by so many, yourself included. What it gets down to, as far as I'm concerned, is that most of us here have a more-than-passing interest in men's hats. It only follows that we would be more discriminating in our tastes, our standards, our purchases.
It's been said at least a million times, but it bears repeating: If only we'd known then what we know now, we wouldn't have paid what we did for some hats, and others we wouldn't have let get away. This site has given me and a bunch of other guys the vocabularly to more clearly articulate and identify what we want in a hat. (You know, sometimes you have to be told what your eyes are seeing before you really see it. Call it education.)
As Snrbfshn observed, though, with a bit of practice it's hard to go TOO wrong. Somebody will indeed want that hat you never wear. I've bought, sold and traded a few right here, through the FL classifieds.
By the way, did you happen to see that old Stetson Imperial our man Buzz recently bought in a vintage shop for 75 bucks? To the uninitiated, that might seem like an awful lot of dough for an old hat, but most guys here would have pounced on that deal. That hat will undoubtedly provoke more comments of the "nice hat" variety from the uninformed public than just about any mass-produced new hat will. (At least once the new has worn off, which generally takes, oh, two or three walks in the rain.)
How do I know this? It's happened to me on hundreds of occasions. At least.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I have bought so so many things not only hats that have turned out to be disappointing. I have learned that for some items I will need to pay more for quality but not always and sometimes expensive does'nt mean that it will be made well at all. Over the years I have developed a veiwing shorthand for things,hats especially. I have not bought a new hat commercially made in years. They just are'nt worth the money for me. When I buy a hat I look for certain lines, shape,qualities in the sweat band, crown and ribbon. I can scan Ebay or a fleamarket or vintage store and quickly spot the qualities I want in a hat.This takes time to develope and I am sure others have their own ways of spotting what they want. Not everyone wants dozens of hats. My only advice is if you want a hat to wear for a long time and in the future maybe you will only want two or three in your life then save your money and buy the best quality you can afford, do as much research as you can and try on as many hats as you can to get a sense of shape, color and fit before you buy.
If you have some extra cash don't discount ebay because you can find great hats for very reasonable prices and if you look long enough your size will come up.

 

[Chanfan]

See, now this has been a very reassuring thread. Thanks, gents!

 

[MattJH]

I'm definitely glad I let off a little steam (not out of anger, but more out of frustration and partial confusion) after reading everybody's replies so far. Thanks. And I do like the idea of The Fedora Lounge being the "Consumer Reports" of hats, as somebody stated -- very well put!

 

[nulty]

You articulated yourself very well Dumbjaw and made your point well which is not always easy to do in online forum. The thing that I think is important to keep in mind at the lounge is to not measure yourself against what you are reading here. Your not doing something wrong or right if it's not inline with something another poster says. We all like to belong and at the same time be individual and do what fits with our wants , needs budget at any given time. Most of us were wearing hats long before the lounge was a twinkle in Mk's eye and formulated our opinions and ideas about hats through trial and error and finding what works.

I've always felt that The Hat was a pretty sacred thing to the guy who wore it. It represents for me an homage to a bygone era and a signpost for me to not forget the men and women that made my way of life possible. I come to hats through the eye of a collector of period style. I would have no knowledge of how someone would wear a Hat for any other reason. So for myself I'm looking for very specific things as are you or Douglas or JamesPowers and all the other cats that wear The Hat.

The magic is to find what works for you because it works for you. And to keep growing in the spirit. In the end it's just a hat and does not measure what kind of a Husband Father Brother Son Person you are. But be assured,,if you pass me on the street I'll be looking at your hat as you pass by....and will give you a discerning nod jsut to let you know that it's a good thing..

Good Luck and Be Well

 

[feltfan]

have your children..it's just a hat.

Well that explains it.

Guy's like myself, JP, Matt Deckard, tonyB, feltfan, et al started the same way. Every one of us have stories of bonehead moves ( OK..I'd better just speak for myself on this one) that we have made and have had to live with

Actually, I had an advantage over some of you guys.

I got to start out with hats by visiting a little store in
Kensington, CA run by a wonderful expert on hats and
men's vintage clothes, Jon Lundberg, and another fine
store in Crockett (later Rodeo) with its own fine "reference
library" of hats and hat making equipment. Stopped going
to that second store when the proprietor introduced me to
some shady characters in the back room who provided obviously
false names such as "Jamespowers" and "LadyPowers".

Seriously, though, my first hat cost me 'way too much (a
Biltmore purchased at the oldest and highest hat store in SF)
and I have had plenty of false purchases on eBay. That said,
I have had so many tremendous bargains on eBay that I
feel I'm 'way ahead of the game. But for a lot of those bargains
I have to thank those stores, for giving me the opportunity to
hold fine Cavanagh, Mallory, and Borsalino felt in my own hands
and try on some vintage styles.

 

[jamespowers]

Well that explains it.

Actually, I had an advantage over some of you guys.

I got to start out with hats by visiting a little store in
Kensington, CA run by a wonderful expert on hats and
men's vintage clothes, Jon Lundberg, and another fine
store in Crockett (later Rodeo) with its own fine "reference
library" of hats and hat making equipment. Stopped going
to that second store when the proprietor introduced me to
some shady characters in the back room who provided obviously
false names such as "Jamespowers" and "LadyPowers".

lol lol lol lol Yeah, Art was a great resource when he was close but he still is here.

 

[Twitch]

"I've not spent more than $75 on each of my vintage fedoras, and for most I've spent less than $60. I'm a cheapskate to the bone, but I when I find a deal, I pounce. Patience and persistence pays off."

To quote Wingnut says it all. You don't have to spend lots to get decent quality. I bought beaver Ebay hats that when received could tell that they were never worn for as little as $10! Be patient and watch Ebay. Next week you'll see a great hat nobody's bidding on that its twin this week was bid way up.

 

[MattJH]

By the way, I decided to plunge in on a vintage Royal Stetson w/original hat box last night. I was going to place my bid at the last few moments to have the best opportunity of winning the item.

What happens? My internet connection drops with 2 minutes left in the auction and is restored 1 minute after the auction ended. More salt in the wound? Sure! It ended at $22.50!

The only thing making me feel better is that the approximate circumference is listed at 23.5" and I'm 24", so maybe it wouldn't have fit at all. BUT I WANTED IT.

Ahem. I'm OK.

 

[Joel Tunnah]

You can almost never go on those measurements. Most sellers don't understand what measurements are relevant, or how to take them. Taking a tape measure to the inside of a hat (the most common method) is wildly inaccurate - try it.

Worse, most of the time the seller measured the outside diameter of the hat body - an utterly worthless piece of information.

 

[MattJH]

You can almost never go on those measurements. Most sellers don't understand what measurements are relevant, or how to take them. Taking a tape measure to the inside of a hat (the most common method) is wildly inaccurate - try it.

Worse, most of the time the seller measured the outside diameter of the hat body - an utterly worthless piece of information.

That very thing happened to me with my first and only other eBay purchase! Unbelievable -- how could the outside circumference be a useful measurement at all in terms of head fit?

A follow-up question: if seller measurements cannot be relied on and if vintage size tags cannot be relied on due to leather sweatbands shrinking with age, what can be relied on? Luck?

 

[griffer]

...what can be relied on? Luck?...

the law of averages

 

[Orgetorix]

A follow-up question: if seller measurements cannot be relied on and if vintage size tags cannot be relied on due to leather sweatbands shrinking with age, what can be relied on? Luck?

Fate smiling, eventually, and letting you deal with a seller who isn't an utter moron.

 

[feltfan]

A follow-up question: if seller measurements cannot be relied on and if vintage size tags cannot be relied on due to leather sweatbands shrinking with age, what can be relied on? Luck?

I rely on the vintage size tag. If there is some confusion on
the part of the seller, I will also ask for the circumference
measure (and define circumference because most of these
morons don't know what it is). I take any measurements
provided as a ballpark estimate.

I also keep a couple of hat stretchers around and
adjust as necessary.

 

[feltfan]

What happens? My internet connection drops with 2 minutes left in the auction and is restored 1 minute after the auction ended. More salt in the wound? Sure! It ended at $22.50!

The only thing making me feel better is that the approximate circumference is listed at 23.5" and I'm 24", so maybe it wouldn't have fit at all. BUT I WANTED IT.

Ahem. I'm OK.

Remember that the one that got away always looks bigger.

I'd guess that hat is no earlier than 1965 and probably wasn't
all that wonderful. I see marks that could be stains and moth bites.
But most important, I would not trust those measurements. If
it is really 23 1/2" inside, it's probably bigger than 25" outside (depending
on what "around the brim from the exterior" means).
It's a Stetson- it has size marked under the sweatband.

I have certainly lost items on eBay from failure of connectivity.
That's the risk you take by sniping at the last minute. Saves
money (unless you get caught up in a bidding match),
but sometimes you miss out. Many people prefer to bid early.

 

[redavis001]

You all might enjoy this article on the economic rationality of sniping behavior here:

http://www.cramton.umd.edu/econ415/project-internet-auctions.pdf