Older women with younger men and VICE-VERSA!

[HadleyH]

Skyvue, your wife is adorable! She looks like tons of fun!

I agree!

 

[Fletch]

Funny isn't it...

...there are real people out there being really happy with each other. That's smashing.

And then there are The Rules. Not the book by that name...just The Rules. They're what tells us what a man should be, what a woman should be, what should attract us, what should turn us off. (But usually not why. After all, Rules are Rules.)

For instance. All you young ladies with a much older gentleman. I'm assuming he is much more experienced than you in matters of the heart. And I'm assuming, furthermore, that that is part of your attraction to him - what makes him "the one for you." Whatever role age plays or doesn't play in your relationship, I put it to you that at least part of what makes it work is that he has a relatively normal past.

Now let's do a thought experiment. What if your man had never married? Hadn't had a serious g/f in years? What if he was about where you were in his relationship history? That would be a red flag, wouldn't it, no matter how you felt about him?

Because a man - especially a man - must fulfill certain of society's (women's AND men's) expectations. That's what makes him a man, and desirable to women. The more check boxes are empty, the more danger signs there are - the more "stay away signs" there are - the more reasons to not open yourself up to him.

Yes, I have a personal stake here. I have several, but not all, criteria of love-shyness. I have reached an age where I should have had much more experience than I have, so the climb is going to be steep and the cost dear. I realized that years ago, and it has kept me off the market, alone, jealous and cynical.

I'm not really the type to get involved with a much younger woman, but that is true in part because I believe in The Rules, and under them, I am not viable. But if things aren't as strict for men as I think they are, I suppose I might feel differently.

 

[Diamondback]

I can relate, Fletch--I'm probably gonna have to go through at least one more round of "reconstructive surgery" from the neck up before I become "eligible" myself, and am thus caught in a catch-22 because if I'm going to go through that again, I'd hope Miss Right would understand the necessity of it and its complications and be willing to help guide me through the process.

Guess I'm tryin' to tell ya "if she's right for you she'll be willing to work with you in helping you get up to speed" is how I see it. (Says the guy who's never even had a first date at almost-30...lol)

 

[Dr Doran]

.
And then there are The Rules. Not the book by that name...just The Rules. They're what tells us what a man should be, what a woman should be, what should attract us, what should turn us off. (But usually not why. After all, Rules are Rules.)
....

Because a man - especially a man - must fulfill certain of society's (women's AND men's) expectations. That's what makes him a man, and desirable to women.
...

I'm not really the type to get involved with a much younger woman, but that is true in part because I believe in The Rules, and under them, I am not viable. But if things aren't as strict for men as I think they are, I suppose I might feel differently. [/size]

I sympathize with you, and I think there will be understanding women, but .... I must make a criticism of your analysis of the situation.

Even by using a term like "The Rules," you are treating customs that have accreted through many centuries, and that are similar in many societies, as arbitrary and irrational, rather than trying to figure out how they evolved.

As much as I respect you, and have always respected you ... this way lies delusion.

 

[Viola]

Reading that article on love-shyness, I felt not only sympathy for the men so afflicted, but that its so hard for women to feel right/be treated right in current society for asking guys out.

I am with my guy (...now my fiance so you can guess he didn't flee screaming into the night...) but its an awfully hard thing and I think if we hadn't already been friends it would have been insurmountable for me.

And I guess I belong in this thread - I'm four years older than my guy.

 

[Fletch]

I sympathize with you, and I think there will be understanding women, but .... I must make a criticism of your analysis of the situation.

Even by using a term like "The Rules," you are treating customs that have accreted through many centuries, and that are similar in many societies, as arbitrary and irrational, rather than trying to figure out how they evolved.

As much as I respect you, and have always respected you ... this way lies delusion.

I don't think you're wrong. (And thank you for the respect. I do tend to rant sometimes.)

I do wonder, what are some of the customs you had in mind? Do they have to do with what makes a man a man? Or what makes a man suitable or desirable?

What's more, even if there were rational, evolved aspects to some of these customs, they still might not admit of any exceptions for people whose lives and experiences are different.

(I apologize if this is getting OT. If so, just tell me, and I'll pack it up.)

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Fletch... I empathize with you, however, I do not identify with you. In fact, I disagree with the societal expectation model. I have never gotten involved with someone who calibrates my manhood by an arbitrary measuring rod, so to speak. shakeshead

Any relationship that was worthwhile meant I was with my equal; complete with a mutuality of respect, regardless of age.

How could I not revel in the strength, courage, intelligence and spirit of the women that I have loved and not feel they were equal to or even surpassed me, I was compelled to. It does not make me any less a man. Indeed, I am uplifted and enriched by it.

In my world roles in relationships are ever changing as life dictates. For example: One day I am hero because I got a raise. The next day I may need to be saved because I lost my job.

If I like someone I have to let them know and it is no secret. I have gotten my heart broken more times than I care to say, but, I have also broken a few.

I was put on this Earth I live and I try to treasure every second; untethered by societal expectations or worse my own fear of rejection.

 

[Fletch]

I guess I agree with your philosophy. But to be unafraid of rejection I think you need to feel you deserve acceptance. And not just because you're you - that's Mr. Rogers stuff. Grownups don't mess with that. But because you've earned it, the hard way, in a hard world.

Me, I never got past the just-because-you're-you phase.

 

[skyvue]

What if your man had never married? Hadn't had a serious g/f in years? What if he was about where you were in his relationship history? That would be a red flag, wouldn't it, no matter how you felt about him?

You could be talking about me there, Fletch. I'd never been married and though I've had a few girlfriends over the years, for the vast majority of my adult life, I've been single -- and I don't mind admitting that, for me, single meant celibate. So I often worried about being inexperienced, in more than one sense of that word.

And my wife? She'd dated only women and a couple of trans guys (I'm not telling tales out of school here -- she's open about this stuff) -- she always was drawn to both men and women, but she'd had no experience with a biological man.

And we're 23.5 years apart in age.

Talk about your freaking odd couple. But our life together is great. She loves me like no other woman ever has (and I've had two or three tell me they loved me) -- she thinks I hung the moon. She even thinks I'm incredibly handsome (her words, not mine) -- grey hair, middle age spread, and all -- and I honestly don't think any woman's ever felt that way about me before.

I'd just about given up on ever finding Ms. Right, honestly. I mean, I'm a romantic, so I continued to hold out hope, but I'd begun sort of telling myself, "Okay, so you might be single your whole life. There are worse fates."

And there are, of course. But don't give up -- believe me, if it can happen for me, it can happen for you.

 

[tempestbella42]

...there are real people out there being really happy with each other. That's smashing.

And then there are The Rules. Not the book by that name...just The Rules. They're what tells us what a man should be, what a woman should be, what should attract us, what should turn us off. (But usually not why. After all, Rules are Rules.)

For instance. All you young ladies with a much older gentleman. I'm assuming he is much more experienced than you in matters of the heart. And I'm assuming, furthermore, that that is part of your attraction to him - what makes him "the one for you." Whatever role age plays or doesn't play in your relationship, I put it to you that at least part of what makes it work is that he has a relatively normal past.

Now let's do a thought experiment. What if your man had never married? Hadn't had a serious g/f in years? What if he was about where you were in his relationship history? That would be a red flag, wouldn't it, no matter how you felt about him?

Because a man - especially a man - must fulfill certain of society's (women's AND men's) expectations. That's what makes him a man, and desirable to women. The more check boxes are empty, the more danger signs there are - the more "stay away signs" there are - the more reasons to not open yourself up to him.

Yes, I have a personal stake here. I have several, but not all, criteria of love-shyness. I have reached an age where I should have had much more experience than I have, so the climb is going to be steep and the cost dear. I realized that years ago, and it has kept me off the market, alone, jealous and cynical.

I'm not really the type to get involved with a much younger woman, but that is true in part because I believe in The Rules, and under them, I am not viable. But if things aren't as strict for men as I think they are, I suppose I might feel differently.

i think you r overthinking on the whole thing fletch(and i dont mean that disrespectful!) the only rules in life to me are the ones made by the courts and goverments!
I admit when i was younger i did feel i had to fit the expected criteria of me in society, and being unmarried in my 30s (NEVER been married...engaged twice b4 i was 20 though!!) did cause me a lot of distress, but ALL from the younger women i worked with...(i remember listerning to a very upset 19yr old moaning to me that she was "on the shelf" , i was 32, she told a friend later "she didnt wanna end up like me!!!) shes since married and divorced twice, both controling relationships!

I guess I agree with your philosophy. But to be unafraid of rejection I think you need to feel you deserve acceptance. And not just because you're you - that's Mr. Rogers stuff. Grownups don't mess with that.
Me, I never got past the just-because-you're-you phase

i still feel like this! and there lies the problem! if you?me arent happy in our own skin how can we accept others to be.....im still learning to feel good about myself!

At the end of the day i do believe that things happen, and people enter our lives at the right time, and any amount of analysing and worryiung wont make it happen any quicker!

I feel how you do, but maybe at the opposite end of the scale...am i TOO experienced! I therefore find such hope in reading skyvue and the others happiness! Age and experience to me matter little if there is the connection between two people that allows each individual to grow and support each other as the unique person we all are!

i live in hope it will happen to me!!

 

[dhermann1]

Fletch, buddy: Being unafraid of rejection is the sign of a sociopath! Fear is healthy! Don't you get stage fright when you play, if only a little?
You have to realize that in spite of what the little voices say, if you get rejected YOU WON'T DIE! You won't get annihilated. I also think the worst fear is that of humiliation. Hey, nobody's looking! And if they are, screw 'em!
It took me DECADES to reach that point. I didn't get married till I was 44.
Being back in the game, widowed but looking, is in some ways just like being 19 again, but you have the one advantage of knowing that no matter how bad it may get, you'll bounce back. The bad parts can be hideous, but when you realize that you're all better, it's a great feeling. And another thing, in spite of appearances all relationships are SLOPPY. Everybody has their weird crap. You just go ahead in good faith, and trust the other person is doing the same. They usually are.
Now as far as age differences are concerned . . . I ain't going there today, but everything everybody has said is true, plus a whole lot of other things as well.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Yeah, Fletch, not to beat a dead horse, but I'd prefer a never married older man to a divorced older man. It probably means the guy knows what he's looking for and hasn't found it yet. Either that or he's a total player. A short sentence from you like "I don't date just to date, I only date when I am actually interested" will probably take care of it, in combination with general decency and kindness.

 

[Foofoogal]

I agree with Bella on this one Fletch. I am married but from your home page I am just wondering what is wrong with those New York women.

I think for what it is worth (due to the fact I moved alot as a child) I just think of it this way:
There are about a zillion people in the world. If one lady doesn't like you go to the next. What is the worse that can happen. I am sure there are still alot of women shy like you just waiting for you to make the right move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMu9MZQpMus

 

[Foofoogal]

http://coinflip.com/resources/images/news/celinedion_co.jpg

seems to work for these 2 though he did get her right out of the chute so to speak. The woman is not human though so not sure. Only angels sing like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SELp8xfbzJQ

 

[Carlisle Blues]

The right person will just scoop you up ... no questions asked. The "fake" criteria will not come into play. You will be accepted simply for who you are, which seems like a nice package.

It never mattered to me how old the person was, married previously or not; kids were always fine with me.

If I had set an artificial tick list I would have missed out on some great experiences with some wonderful people.

Hang tough and just be who you are things always work out.

 

[The Shirt]

Fletch-
I personally adore that my man is less experienced and older. I was so very intimidated by all the experiences that some have. I thought there was no one left for me, at my "level" so to speak. I got lucky and found him.
My best girlfriend is the same way. She fears that no one will put up with her lack of experience even though by some standards she is considered older. She muses that she is a 21 year old trapped in a 37 year old body when it comes to love. She is convinced that anyone who might be interested in dating her would walk away immediately upon conveying to them that she has never had a "real relationship". I am now convinced otherwise- there are fellas out there that are literally in the same position. If she stumbled upon someone like you, it would be perfect. There are women who have the same fears.

For instance. All you young ladies with a much older gentleman. I'm assuming he is much more experienced than you in matters of the heart. And I'm assuming, furthermore, that that is part of your attraction to him

I think the attraction isn't so much from experience for me as it is that they are serious about life, found themselves and what they love hopefully, and don't play the games of acquisition that young men sometimes play. There seems to be more investment, but that's only my narrow perspective.

 

[NicolettaRose]

I am 25, and only date older men as illustrated in my avatar. Before 35, men ( like women) are selfish and inexperiened

 

[jamespowers]

I am 25, and only date older men as illustrated in my avatar. Before 35, men ( like women) are selfish and inexperiened

I think there needs to be some in there somewhere.

 

[grey ghost]

I too belieave that guys really do not mature mentally until 35ish. Speaking for myself I was not mentally prepared for a real relationship until that time.Dont get me wrong I played the dating game big time but I could ever go the distance.
I got married at 37 and was ready for the commitment.

 

[Lefty]

I too belieave that guys really do not mature mentally until 35ish.

This deserves a second run.

I think there needs to be some in there somewhere.