Ok, so some things in the golden era were not too cool...

[vitanola]

First, my best to you and your loved one. I'm sorry that you both have to go through that, and I wish you both the best.

Secondly, if you've seen an alcoholic stop drinking, you seen one make a choice to not drink.

Yes. But there's sometimes more to it than that. Sometimes an alcoholic can decide to stop drinking and instead of becoming dry, he simply dies. Advanced addiction can be a medical emergency in addition to a moral one.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Yes. But there's sometimes more to it than that. Sometimes an alcoholic can decide to stop drinking and instead of becoming dry, he simply dies. Advanced addiction can be a medical emergency in addition to a moral one.

Of course. I understand that there are serious physiological consequences to a long-term alcoholic quitting cold turkey. And when it gets to that point, it's devastating. But that doesn't meant the person *never* had a choice to stop drinking.

 

[vitanola]

Of course. I understand that there are serious physiological consequences to a long-term alcoholic quitting cold turkey. And when it gets to that point, it's devastating. But that doesn't meant the person *never* had a choice to stop drinking.

True, that.

 

[Stanley Doble]

That's absurd. Even if you believe in the disease concept, the number one rule is that while you may not be responsible for the disease, you DO have the power and responsibility to stay sober.

That is the point. Not everyone has the power to remain sober, or to make responsible decisions especially when drunk. No one who has ever had a problem with drugs or alcohol would think that drug addiction or alcoholism is a conscious, rational choice.

It is obvious you have never had a problem with substance abuse and I hope you never do.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've known people with addictions to any number of things, and not one of them ever said "Gee, I think I'll get addicted to booze/cigarettes/pills/pot/making myself throw up/etc." Every single one of them started out saying "Hey, everybody else does it, how bad can it be?"

 

[HudsonHawk]

That is the point. Not everyone has the power to remain sober, or to make responsible decisions especially when drunk.

Perhaps we're arguing past each other. I certainly agree that addiction is powerful and that many people are never able to stop. And I'd never argue that they're making decisions rationally. But they're not predestined to die of alcohol poisoning either. They got there by a serious of choices they made, and at some point along the way, they had the option to not take another drink. Every recovery alcoholic will tell you the same thing.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Anyone who wants to get off drugs or alcohol should look into Neuro Electric Therapy or NET. Here is an interview with Pete Townsend where he describes how he got off drugs and alcohol with the help of Dr. Margaret Patterson and her "black box".

http://www.thewho.net/articles/penthouse_1983.htm

SOTA Bio Tuner, one brand of "black box".

http://www.sota.com/bio-tuner.html

Dr. Patterson web site

http://www.drmeg.net/net.htm

 

[1961MJS]

That is the point. Not everyone has the power to remain sober, or to make responsible decisions especially when drunk. No one who has ever had a problem with drugs or alcohol would think that drug addiction or alcoholism is a conscious, rational choice.

It is obvious you have never had a problem with substance abuse and I hope you never do.

Hi

I think you've hit at one of the hearts of the problem. Those of us who don't have substance abuse problems don't tend to believe that there is someone who doesn't have the power to remain sober. Most of us see those who can't remain sober, at least most of the time, to have a bad habit, not a disease. I don't know if it's a disease or not, or is some people REALLY don't have the power to remain sober or not. Those us who can remain sober most of the time certainly don't understand those that can't.

I've worked with several people who drank quite a bit. One died of Cirrhosis of the Liver, another quit when he retired, I believe without AA. He just didn't need it anymore.

Just my $0.02

 

[dh66]

......... another quit when he retired, I believe without AA. He just didn't need it anymore.

I can certainly understand that.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Stanley Doble]

Why does anybody do anything? Go figure the secrets of the human heart.

In the days when prohibition was a hot political topic, it was common for the town drunk to be the biggest advocate for prohibition. Funny to some, but he knew that he was powerless to stop drinking as long as there was a saloon on every corner.

That is one of the cornerstones of AA. To admit you are powerless to control alcohol by yourself. They figured out empirically that an alcoholic is NOT in control of his appetite for liquor.

 

[Matt Crunk]

The North and the South are two very different nations and always have been. Even the Civil War didn't change that -- if anything, it made it even more obvious. The result has been like a hundred-and-fifty-year-long dysfunctional marriage.

I'm a Southerner who happens to love the North as well. You know the old joke about the difference between the North and South being that you never hear of anyone retiring to the North? Well, I might just be the rare exception to that some day. I love the dirt-cheap home prices I'm seeing in the rust-belt nowadays and could really see myself living in a climate of milder summers and more snow-filled winters. But as you say, they are very different places on a lot of levels.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's often a culture shock for Southern folk who move up here -- my mother had a neighbor from South Carolina who never quite got the hang of things, and there was friction as a result. For those below the Mason-Dixon who might be considering a move to Northern New England, here's a few things that are absolutely essential to know:

1. We don't make physical contact with anyone in public, and only with our immediate family in private. We don't hug, and we don't especially like even to shake hands. The correct acknowledgement when you meet someone you know is to make brief eye contact and nod and wait for the nod to be acknowledged. Only then does conversation begin.

2. Some of the most religious people up here never go to church. For those who do, the services are generally very quiet and contemplative. Voices are never raised, and the singing is rarely on-key.

3. The names "Denny Galehouse," "Julian Javier," "Bucky Dent," "Calvin Schiraldi," and "Grady Little" are never spoken in public without the speaker immediately spitting on the ground.

4. Throwing snow behind you when shoveling the driveway tells the whole neighborhood you're a boob. The snowplow will fill you right back in again. Throwing snow into your neighbor's driveway is an act of hostility, akin to rushing up to her and kicking her in the shin, and will make you a lifelong enemy. Snow should only be thrown onto berms at the edge of your own driveway. By the end of a typical winter, these berms will be at least six feet high.

5. Most of us only eat lobster if we have to. It's mostly just for the tourists.

6. If you buy a used car, make sure it has a good sticker.

7. Do not, under any circumstances, say to any native after experiencing your first snowstorm "That's why we live in Maine!"

8. Do not take off your snow tires until May 1st.

9. It's "Bang-gor," not "Bang-er."

10. French names are pronounced as they appear, not as they're actually pronounced in France. "Thibodeau" is "Tibba-doe," "Goucher" is "Gow-cher," "Poutine" is "Poo-teen." And "Calais" is never, under any circumstances, "Callay." It is, and will always be, "Callus."

11. Indian place names, such as "Mattawaumkeag," "Kenduskeag" or "Passagassawaukeag" are all pronounced like a wardrobe trunk being pushed down a flight of stairs.

12. Don't make jokes about living "up the County" unless you have actually lived up the County.

13. Those industrial docks were here long before you got here, and they'll be here long after you're gone. We don't really care if they spoil your view.

14. We don't have funny accents. You do.

 

[ChiTownScion]

It's often a culture shock for Southern folk who move up here.....
2. Some of the most religious people up here never go to church. For those who do, the services are generally very quiet and contemplative. Voices are never raised, and the singing is rarely on-key.

.....

One of many reasons why I could never retire to the South: the notion of a total stranger asking me which church I attend. I know it's meant as a friendly and folksy gesture, but to me, it's presumptuous, akin to asking a stranger how much money is in their savings account.

Attending a church that features screaming histrionics from a "Bible college" educated pulpiteer would not be in the cards for me, either. If exiled below the Mason and Dixon Line I'm afraid that I'd have to embrace high church Episcopalianism just to maintain my balance.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In my childhood there was no need to ask -- you could tell what church someone attended just by looking at their car. If they drove a Buick or a Mercury or a Chrysler they were Congregationalists. If they drove a Ford, Chevy or Plymouth they were Methodists. Those were the only options.

When I was very small, I refused to say the word "Chrysler" because I thought it took the Lord's name in vain.

 

[Renault]

For the sake of the safety of those in the congregation, I general stay out of churches. For fear of all the collateral damage suffered by those afore mentioned individuals when the roof caves in on them.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Reminds me of a tale that I heard from a German American pal from a town in Minnesota. Seems that the Lutherans all drove Chevrolets and the Catholics drove Fords: it had nothing to do with socio-economics, but everything to do with whose fellow church member owned the local dealership and from who they thought they could get a better deal.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I forgot the most important thing to remember: Do *not* call us "Yankees," unless you're west of Hartford. The only good "Yankees" were Gehrig, Berra, and Jeter.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I forgot the most important thing to remember: Do *not* call us "Yankees," unless you're west of Hartford. The only good "Yankees" were Gehrig, Berra, and Jeter.

The way I've heard it recited is as follows:

If you're from outside of the USA, anyone from the USA is a "Yankee."

If you're from the South, anyone north of the Mason and Dixon line is a "Yankee."

If you're north of the Mason and Dixon line, anyone from New England is a "Yankee."

If you're in New England, only those from New Hampshire are "Yankees."

If you're in New Hampshire, the only real "Yankees" are those who still don't have indoor plumbing.

 

[Zombie_61]

It's often a culture shock for Southern folk who move up here -- my mother had a neighbor from South Carolina who never quite got the hang of things...

Years ago one of my wife's cousins and his pregnant wife moved from northern Illinois to southern California. They stuck out like a pair of sore thumbs wherever they went, and stayed for a little over two years without even the slightest hint of acclimation before they moved back to Illinois. Some people simply shouldn't relocate.

For the sake of the safety of those in the congregation, I general stay out of churches. For fear of all the collateral damage suffered by those afore mentioned individuals when the roof caves in on them.

The last time I set foot in a church I spontaneously combusted. So...yeah.

 

[Matt Crunk]

Ever notice how no matter what part of the country you are in, the lower the class of person, the thicker their regional accent? You'll find it different but just as severe in Northern "white trash" as it is in Southern rednecks, but the upper-middle classes speak about the same everywhere, usually with only a hint of local flavor.