Ok, so some things in the golden era were not too cool...

[jamespowers]

Well I can only tell you what I saw on Oprah (in relation to this issue for some families in the US) which was all about food and where it comes from - there was a man who had $5 to spend on food for the day for his family - he went into the grocery store and if he bought brocolli that would have blown his budget - it was cheaper for him to feed himself, his wife and daughter in a burger joint - so sadly this is the situation that some people are dealing with. The man had diabetes and couldn't afford medicine for it and was more than aware that the food he was eating was contributing to him being ill but he was trapped in a vicious cycle with low wages and poor diet.

I guess she doesn't read the New York Times then:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=all

It isn't cheaper just faster and for those who don't make time then they are going to make THEMSELVES sick. Not the government, not the fast food companies and not advertising---they are just the scapegoats for the mirror.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I think one of the significant contributing factors to obesity is lack of exercise -- especially children -- in this day and age when parents are afraid to let their kids play outside* except for the occasional planned and supervised "play date." And many parents don't feel they have time for that, so it's easier for them to plop the kids in front of a TV or computer screen.

*and BTW, those kids aren't going to learn how to discern danger from the back seat of mom and dad's car!

 

[Atomic Age]

I'd say that if your health suffers because you have no time to cook and can only eat a fast food meal then you have to look at your priorities. One of the things you have the most control over in this world is what you put into your mouth and chew. The Burger King isn't a real monarch and he can't force you to eat his food by royal decree. The Colonel doesn't really outrank you and he can't order you to eat his fried chicken. As for Ronald MacDonald, why would you let that clown tell you what to eat? If you point to being time-pressed and having a hectic lifestyle while you hoover down food from MacDonalds or Taco Bell, that's your choice and you will have to live with the health consequences.

As for the cost, I have no idea what MacDonalds food costs. But could a home-cooked serving with, say, two vegetables and a piece of lean meat really cost so more than a trip to MacDonalds that it is unaffordable? That strains credulity. And what value are you getting from MacDonalds food compared to healthier food?

I've heard the time and money reasons before, but those are just they typical cop-outs that people always bring up.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that almost every "fast food" place has some healthy items on their menu. Frankly the notion that people can only afford to eat fast food is a silly excuse. Lets not take responsibility for ourselves, lets blame it on some big bad corporation. Thats a load of BS!

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

Well I can only tell you what I saw on Oprah (in relation to this issue for some families in the US) which was all about food and where it comes from - there was a man who had $5 to spend on food for the day for his family - he went into the grocery store and if he bought brocolli that would have blown his budget - it was cheaper for him to feed himself, his wife and daughter in a burger joint - so sadly this is the situation that some people are dealing with. The man had diabetes and couldn't afford medicine for it and was more than aware that the food he was eating was contributing to him being ill but he was trapped in a vicious cycle with low wages and poor diet.

Oprah lacks any serious credibility on just about any issue.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

I think one of the significant contributing factors to obesity is lack of exercise -- especially children -- in this day and age when parents are afraid to let their kids play outside* except for the occasional planned and supervised "play date." And many parents don't feel they have time for that, so it's easier for them to plop the kids in front of a TV or computer screen.

*and BTW, those kids aren't going to learn how to discern danger from the back seat of mom and dad's car!

I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head!

Doug

 

[Red Diabla]

It's not as simple as, "Just go buy fruits and vegetables" to solve the obesity problem in the US. As has been pointed out, not only is produce not as cheap as fast food because of the food lobbyists in Washington DC, but the quality of produce in some areas is grotesque at best. I've seen some sad looking produce in stores, and I wouldn't blame anyone for not buying it when it's rotting in the store. If there isn't a farmer's market nearby and one is on a tight budget, then what are the options?

Couple that with the aforementioned food lobbyists...their latest thing is saying pizza should be considered a vegetable in schools. This is akin to the stupidity of the Reagan-era proclamation that ketchup is a vegetable. The amount of junk food found in schools now is ridiculous...how are kids supposed to learn what's good for them when pizza is considered a vegetable?! School kitchens are obsolete; most school lunches are made somewhere else en masse and then shipped to the schools. Nothing fresh is used. Couple that with taking away home ec classes where kids could learn how to cook, and no wonder the kids are getting chunky.

Along the school tangent, Michelle Obama gets grief for having a vegetable garden at the White House, and urges schools to have healthier food options, which sends people like Sarah Palin on a spiel about "DON'T TAKE AWAY SUGAR FROM THE KIDS!" and even does a press junket where she takes sugar cookies to a school. What kind of wackiness is that, to campaign against healthy food?! What does that say to kids?

Another thing: how many of us have actually figured out what a "serving" of food is? Lately I've been keeping a food journal, and that's been VERY eye opening as to what I've been eating and how much of it I'm shoving into my face. Counting calories is tedious, but it's really making me realize that what I grew up with was based on nothing but my own whims and wishes, and not what actually helps me control my weight. I've now realized that bread and cheese are to be eaten sparingly...but guess what's cheap? Bread and cheese. HUH. GO FIGURE.

I also think having corn syrup in everything makes people gain weight. I know corn when it's in its natural form is delicious and when in controlled portions is OK, but having corn syrup of one form or another in EVERYTHING that isn't raw food isn't healthy. Corn isn't the best way to get energy for the body for either humans or cows; I've heard grass-fed meat is better for people, but again...guess what's cheaper and way more widely available? The crap stuff.

I'm not totally absolving people from taking control of their food intake, but it's only just within the past five or ten years where people have begun to realize just how deep the problem of bad food and bad habits are in the US.

 

[Atomic Age]

I stopped eating out about a year ago, and I save close to $300 a month by not doing so. Cheaper to eat fast food? Bull shit!

Doug

 

[Noirblack]

Well I can only tell you what I saw on Oprah (in relation to this issue for some families in the US) which was all about food and where it comes from - there was a man who had $5 to spend on food for the day for his family - he went into the grocery store and if he bought brocolli that would have blown his budget - it was cheaper for him to feed himself, his wife and daughter in a burger joint - so sadly this is the situation that some people are dealing with. The man had diabetes and couldn't afford medicine for it and was more than aware that the food he was eating was contributing to him being ill but he was trapped in a vicious cycle with low wages and poor diet.

I'd imagine that his $5.00 wouldn't get him a lot in a burger place either. If his daily budget was $5.00 for his entire family, then they would quickly starve to death. Let's say his it was just him, a wife and one child. An adult male needs a minimum of 1,500 calories per day. An adult female needs a minimum of 1,200 calories per day (everything I have read on nutrition and weight loss uses these two figures as guidelines). I'm not sure what a child needs, but if the child is still developing, I would expect this to be at least 1,000 calories. So in total this 3-person family needs a minimum of 3,700 calories per day.

Let's assume the $5.00 will get them one combo of burgers, fries and a drink. Maybe it could buy them more; I don't expect it could. I used the MacDonalds website for their nutrition guidelines. A Big Mac is 510 calories. The fries were listed as 230 calories, but it didn't specify the size. Assuming MacDonalds is basing this on a small order, let's triple that number for a super-sized order. So that's 690. Also, for a drink, Macdonalds lists Coke as 150 calories. Again, assuming that's a small Coke, let's triple it for the actual barrel-sized vessel that most people get there. So thats 450 calories. This is a grand total of 1,650 calories - less than half the 3,700 calorie minimum they require. This would not give the family sufficient caloric intake to maintain much body weight. In fact, if this was their average daily intake they would all be underweight and on the way to starvation and death.

I don't doubt that Oprah featured this on her show. But like so many things on TV it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If this family only has $5.00 per day for food they somehow have to be purchasing at least 3,700 calories per day with it (assuming one child) not to be underweight.

 

[Tomasso]

Bull shit!

I can't recall ever seeing this term posted on the Lounge.

 

[Atomic Age]

High fructose corn syrup is chemically identical to cane sugar. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing a political agenda. Sugar no matter if it comes from beats or cane, or corn, is all just sugar.

Now does this mean that sugar is good for you? Well probably not in huge amounts, but its far better for you than these artificial sweeteners.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

I can't recall ever seeing this term posted on the Lounge.

Sorry. Nonsense tends to get my dander up.

Doug

 

[Noirblack]

It's not as simple as, "Just go buy fruits and vegetables" to solve the obesity problem in the US. As has been pointed out, not only is produce not as cheap as fast food because of the food lobbyists in Washington DC, but the quality of produce in some areas is grotesque at best. I've seen some sad looking produce in stores, and I wouldn't blame anyone for not buying it when it's rotting in the store. If there isn't a farmer's market nearby and one is on a tight budget, then what are the options?

Couple that with the aforementioned food lobbyists...their latest thing is saying pizza should be considered a vegetable in schools. This is akin to the stupidity of the Reagan-era proclamation that ketchup is a vegetable. The amount of junk food found in schools now is ridiculous...how are kids supposed to learn what's good for them when pizza is considered a vegetable?! School kitchens are obsolete; most school lunches are made somewhere else en masse and then shipped to the schools. Nothing fresh is used. Couple that with taking away home ec classes where kids could learn how to cook, and no wonder the kids are getting chunky.

Along the school tangent, Michelle Obama gets grief for having a vegetable garden at the White House, and urges schools to have healthier food options, which sends people like Sarah Palin on a spiel about "DON'T TAKE AWAY SUGAR FROM THE KIDS!" and even does a press junket where she takes sugar cookies to a school. What kind of wackiness is that, to campaign against healthy food?! What does that say to kids?

Another thing: how many of us have actually figured out what a "serving" of food is? Lately I've been keeping a food journal, and that's been VERY eye opening as to what I've been eating and how much of it I'm shoving into my face. Counting calories is tedious, but it's really making me realize that what I grew up with was based on nothing but my own whims and wishes, and not what actually helps me control my weight. I've now realized that bread and cheese are to be eaten sparingly...but guess what's cheap? Bread and cheese. HUH. GO FIGURE.

I also think having corn syrup in everything makes people gain weight. I know corn when it's in its natural form is delicious and when in controlled portions is OK, but having corn syrup of one form or another in EVERYTHING that isn't raw food isn't healthy. Corn isn't the best way to get energy for the body for either humans or cows; I've heard grass-fed meat is better for people, but again...guess what's cheaper and way more widely available? The crap stuff.

I'm not totally absolving people from taking control of their food intake, but it's only just within the past five or ten years where people have begun to realize just how deep the problem of bad food and bad habits are in the US.

I think it is as simple as making smarter food choices. Are you telling me that quality produce is a rarity? Once again, credulity is strained to the breaking point. Food lobbyists? Bah! They don't put food in your mouth and make your mandibles move! There are all kinds of healthy choices available. Yes, lobbyits push the polititians, but they can't prevent the consumer from making smart food choices. There is lots of information on packaging about calories and nutrition. There is a lot of information in the internet as well. We have more knowledge now than ever before about these topics, and more access to this information than ever before.

 

[Noirblack]

I can't recall ever seeing this term posted on the Lounge.

I think he meant "Baloney!"

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Yes, I must say that the Bravo Sierra Meter goes completely off scale whenever I read or hear one of the pronouncements of Oprah.

 

[Miss Golightly]

James Powers - thank you for the article - I had a speed read of it there but will go back to it and read it properly when I get a moment - a glass of rose and a DVD awaits....

Noirblack - The segment with the man looking to feed his family was extremely short and didn't go into too much detail about what he was going to do food-wise for the rest of the day/week - the emphasis of the show was on people thinking about where their food comes from and what they are putting into their bodies which I think is something everyone should be doing. It refreshed my resolve to care more about eating organically and healthily so the show was of benefit to me anyway.

I don't live in the US (but have had the pleasure of several stays there!) and can only go on what I see on TV or read in the papers/magazines so I can't say that I know exactly what is going on with food prices or food in schools in the US and I'm probably not getting the full picture - however I recall the resistance Jamie Oliver received from parents and schools in the US when he tried to introduce healthier meals at lunchtime (the same happened when he tried the same in the UK - parents sneaking in chips to their kids at lunchtime) - parents were acting like he was giving their kids broken glass laced with Belladonna.....

 

[Red Diabla]

High fructose corn syrup is chemically identical to cane sugar. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing a political agenda. Sugar no matter if it comes from beats or cane, or corn, is all just sugar.

Now does this mean that sugar is good for you? Well probably not in huge amounts, but its far better for you than these artificial sweeteners.

Doug

Corn is a political agenda because it's been pushed by the food lobbyists. It's not equal to sugar in the way it reacts in some people's metabolism...or animals, for that matter. Cows aren't meant to eat corn, or themselves, yet that's what they're fed, and people are eating it. And people are unhealthy as a result. You could say that documentaries like Food, Inc. who expose this stuff are pushing an agenda, but it's an agenda of more raw foods, so is that bad?

And about the "bs" fast food is cheaper than vegetables in some areas...that to me just shows ignorance of what different neighborhoods are like. I'm in a good area of Los Angeles, yet there are still stores with crap for produce and it's not cheaper than going to Taco Bell for a 59-cent taco. Luckily there are options not too far away, but there's plenty of neighborhoods where that's not the case. So again, if there's no options to crap in a neighborhood and someone is on a tight budget, what are they supposed to do?

RD

 

[amador]

A 500 calorie defecit per day will melt a pound of fat per week away.
A 500 calorie excess per day will make a pound of fat per week that won't go away.


BTW just as an example ONE light beer has 96 cal.

 

[Red Diabla]

I think it is as simple as making smarter food choices. Are you telling me that quality produce is a rarity? Once again, credulity is strained to the breaking point. Food lobbyists? Bah! They don't put food in your mouth and make your mandibles move! There are all kinds of healthy choices available. Yes, lobbyits push the polititians, but they can't prevent the consumer from making smart food choices. There is lots of information on packaging about calories and nutrition. There is a lot of information in the internet as well. We have more knowledge now than ever before about these topics, and more access to this information than ever before.

Quality produce isn't a given EVERYWHERE. It isn't a given in the areas where obesity is highest.

When one is surrounded by bad food everywhere, it's harder to get healthy. Plain and simple. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I think it's disingenuous to conclude that it's all laziness and not about circumstances from other very powerful forces.

 

[Atomic Age]

Corn is a political agenda because it's been pushed by the food lobbyists. It's not equal to sugar in the way it reacts in some people's metabolism...or animals, for that matter. Cows aren't meant to eat corn, or themselves, yet that's what they're fed, and people are eating it. And people are unhealthy as a result. You could say that documentaries like Food, Inc. who expose this stuff are pushing an agenda, but it's an agenda of more raw foods, so is that bad?

And about the "bs" fast food is cheaper than vegetables in some areas...that to me just shows ignorance of what different neighborhoods are like. I'm in a good area of Los Angeles, yet there are still stores with crap for produce and it's not cheaper than going to Taco Bell for a 59-cent taco. Luckily there are options not too far away, but there's plenty of neighborhoods where that's not the case. So again, if there's no options to crap in a neighborhood and someone is on a tight budget, what are they supposed to do?

RD

There is zero scientific proof that corn reacts any differently than cane sugar in your system. BTW don't listen to Dr. Oz...he is an idiot.

If you eat every meal at a fast food joint, as apposed to buying food at the store and making it yourself, (not just vegetables because I'm not a vegetarian) you will spend on average $200 to $500 more a month per person. There is no getting around that.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

Quality produce isn't a given EVERYWHERE. It isn't a given in the areas where obesity is highest.

When one is surrounded by bad food everywhere, it's harder to get healthy. Plain and simple. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I think it's disingenuous to conclude that it's all laziness and not about circumstances from other very powerful forces.

Quality produces is available in every town and city in America. Its just a matter of buying it rather than the junk.

Additionally if you only have $5 a day to buy food for your family, there is this thing called food stamps where a family of 4 gets something like $1000 a month to buy food.

Doug