Ok, so some things in the golden era were not too cool...

[LizzieMaine]

As I've occasionally said before when this topic's come up, I don't really think we've moved ahead as much as we've moved sideways. Perhaps other countries have a better handle on these things than we do, but Americans are notorious for smiling to your face and slashing you to pieces the moment your back is turned, preaching brotherhood but letting their actions say something else -- in the fall of 2001, a majority of Americans favored the internment of citizens of Arab descent, so this generation is hardly qualified to get on its high horse about what happened in 1942. Our schools are more segregated now than they were in 1950, homicide is the leading cause of death among African-American men, a greater percentage of whom are in prison than ever before in our history, homophobia is still as rampant as it ever was -- as five minutes in any schoolyard will tell you, and add to that the explicit, totally-unabated sexual objectification of young women, and I'd even say we've moved *backward* in some respects. The saying shouldn't be "Look how far we've come," but rather, "How far *have* we come?"

Anyway, if it were up to me, I'd turn the entire world back to that precise point in 1945 when the war was over and there was nowhere to go but up -- and I'd hope and pray that *this* time, we wouldn't make a hopeless botch of it.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Life was simpler, I'd go in a second.

I live in germany. So I won't. Nice clothes though^^

 

[1961MJS]

Yeah, and the homophobia, xenophobia, petty Nationalism, poor healthcare (especially in the filed of mental health), general prejudice against anything different.... "golden" era my hind quarters. Not to say we've moved on anywhere near as much as we should have hoped, but hey.... Personally, I like living in an era when those who wish to promote such prejudices are made uncomfortable. [huh]

Hi Edward

I agree that the whole "against anything different" wasn't great by any means, but that element in small town America is still very prevalent and helpful. Helpful in the sense that the real phobia is more "we take care of our own" as opposed to "we're against anything different"

My Mom lives in a small town in Illinois. She grew up in Kentucky, but has lived in the same town now since since 1953 or 4. When she needs something (she's 80) someone goes and gets it for her. When my Mom called the ambulance for my Dad, the two on call EMT's showed up and so did 4 other EMT's that heard the call and who it was. We do have transplants from outside the US, mainly Eastern Europe, not Mexico, and they get along fairly well when they try to get along. They have a harder time when they don't, an example is the High School Freshman who wouldn't stand for the National Anthem because it "wasn't hers".

Personally, I find the whole "push" towards "embracing alternate lifestyles" annoying. There were / are only a radical few who want to string up all of the (pick a minority group of any type), and the rest of us get to take credit for their personalities. The Government can't force a group of people to like another group (see Yugoslavia) and it's a waste of time and money to try.

Again, just my $0.02.

 

[Blackjack]

Hi Edward

I agree that the whole "against anything different" wasn't great by any means, but that element in small town America is still very prevalent and helpful. Helpful in the sense that the real phobia is more "we take care of our own" as opposed to "we're against anything different"

My Mom lives in a small town in Illinois. She grew up in Kentucky, but has lived in the same town now since since 1953 or 4. When she needs something (she's 80) someone goes and gets it for her. When my Mom called the ambulance for my Dad, the two on call EMT's showed up and so did 4 other EMT's that heard the call and who it was. We do have transplants from outside the US, mainly Eastern Europe, not Mexico, and they get along fairly well when they try to get along. They have a harder time when they don't, an example is the High School Freshman who wouldn't stand for the National Anthem because it "wasn't hers".

Personally, I find the whole "push" towards "embracing alternate lifestyles" annoying. There were / are only a radical few who want to string up all of the (pick a minority group of any type), and the rest of us get to take credit for their personalities. The Government can't force a group of people to like another group (see Yugoslavia) and it's a waste of time and money to try.

Again, just my $0.02.

You've hit the nail on the head on a few things here. One of the big differences between the this generation and our parents is tolerance is shoved down our throats now. We must show tolerance for everyone whether they show tolerance for us or not. We are made to feel like were the bad guys for everything that has happened in the last 200 years and feel the need to apologize for it. I personally do not feel bad in the least that we dropped the bomb on Japan in WWII, it saved probably hundreds of thousands of lives by doing it. Yet if I'd say that publicly I'm sure I would be chastised for being "intolerant". When you constantly tell people what they must think and how the must feel about others it just makes the situation worse, and thats whats happened here.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

That's the mentality around here. Not in the more heavily populated areas, but more the rural outskirts.

"we take care of our own" as opposed to "we're against anything different"

 

[O2BSwank]

If you romanticize anything you will see it through rose colored glasses. I like the aesthetics of Golden Age style, the music ,fashions, architecture, and especially the cars. While these cars are beautiful, they are nowhere near as safe as a modern car and the highway deathrate reflected this. Are they better of worse than cars of today? It depends on how you are looking at them. Some aspects of American society were I think better. There was more personal acceptance of personal responsibility and there was more agreement in general moral values I think that there has been more acceptance of other social groups,("Minorities") which has led to greater opportunity for people as individuals. I like the lines of a 34 Ford and I know a lot of you out there do also. If we accept that, than that's fine. If we get into a discussion of Henry Ford as an industrialist and a person, and the plight of the auto worker we can open up a can of worms. Just for clarification I am a first generation Mexican American. My father came here because he saw the opportunity that was here and he came to feel that this was his country also, where he lived and raised his family. After a life of hard work and sacrifice my parents managed to provide their children the opportunity to attend good Catholic schools and all graduate from college and there were no hand outs or even scholarships here. This is the American Way. Work hard and accomplish whatever you are capable of. A parting thought: Has American Society "crested the curve"?
I think maybe a little, time to get it back on track. Okay no more soapbox. Happy New Year!

 

[Stearmen]

These Are The Good Old Days

My mother who passed away last year and was part of The Greatest Generation, survived the Great Depression and WWII would always say, "the best thing about the good old days is, they are over!"

 

[AtomicEraTom]

My pa always tells me "Son, you don't realize it now, but THESE are the good ol' days."

 

[bil_maxx]

My pa always tells me "Son, you don't realize it now, but THESE are the good ol' days."

Tom that's one of my favourite expressions bacause it is so true. A recent study stated that the average kid in North America today has more ammenities and a higher standard of living than an absolute monarch would have had less than 30 years ago. That is amazing when you think of it. I'm not referring to cell phones and X-Box either. Standard of living in particular with good schools and doctors is the one we rarely think about but in the "Good old days", you could die from diarrhea or the flu. Now they are generally considered minor afflictions.

I love the look of the Golden Era, but I realize that we live like kings in the most literal sense in the world of today.

 

[Blackjack]

"I love the look of the Golden Era, but I realize that we live like kings in the most literal sense in the world of today."

Yes, and we are doing it on fiat money and are 13 trillion dollars in debt. How long do you think we are going to keep living like Kings? There are trade offs my friends for living the throw away, disposable lifestyle we enjoy. the products we use are mainly cheap imports that do not last, the clothes we wear are lucky to survive a dozen washings unless you want to pay through the nose for custom made clothing, the fast food most Americans live on is killing us, we are taxed to death, and are losing our freedoms of individual responsibility faster than we can keep track. Yes, we are living like Kings in our own crumbling little kingdoms. I repeat what I said before, I would take living in the 40's/ 50's in a second over these "good ol days".
Oh try to find a job today with any stability, then lets talk health insurance...

 

[LocktownDog]

I live in germany. So I won't. Nice clothes though^^

Poignant.

 

[Feraud]

My pa always tells me "Son, you don't realize it now, but THESE are the good ol' days."

Your dad is absolutely right.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As far as taxes go, average tax rates in 1945 were far, far higher than they are now. And people paid willingly and without kicking, because they knew it was their duty to pay for the war, not to put it on the cuff for future generations. Another lesson the modern generation has forgotten.

As far as living like an absolute monarch is concerned, well, again, it depends on where you live, and what you do for a living, what sort of health insurance you have, and what your definition of "living well" really is. There's a lot more to a truly good life than the size of your bank account, the height of your living room ceiling, or the prestige of the school your kids attend -- and especially over the past thirty years or so our culture has lost sight of that. The modern generation carries on like a pack of crass, nouveau-riche strivers chasing after something they don't realize they're never going to get.

The parvenus of the '20s were put in their place pretty soundly by the Depression. Will their descendants learn an equivalent lesson from recent events? I kind of doubt it.

 

[overlord4215]

The problem with looking back is that you are looking back . I take all the things i own for granted but i like most of you lived just fine without cell phones a few years ago. ( I had a beeper !) My TV had a knob and the one in the kitchen was black and white . The more important question would the person from our collective past wish to live now ? I don't have an answer but i do think that a simpler time was just that simpler . yea you have a car that will save you from a crash but you cant fix it , great medicine and doctors but you have to travel to see them on there schedule and pay threw the nose for the privilege . Schools better that's questionable i do find it funny that mine was built in 1912 and the kids graduating today cant read, but they could back then if they had gone . Is it better that i can get my rear kicked by a 10 year old in Beijing on my x-box or to have a simple game of cards with my buddies right in front of me . Now as for tolerance ,racism and xenophobia etc we live in a time when everyone can live the way they want, all well and good i guess as long as you agree with what everyone else is doing personal experience has shown the people who preach tolerance and acceptance are in fact the least tolerant type of person if you don't agree with them . From what i was told while these prejudices existed you at least knew where you stood because you didn't have to fain tolerance or acceptance . Did we intern Americans of Japanese decent yep sure did and if German decent Americans were few in number they would be interned as well .World Wars make people a little paranoid . As to the original posting that started this ball rolling most of the scary looking stuff was filmed at an odd angle i bet he wasn't even near the edge most of the time . Just my 10 cents (the dollars not worth as much any more )

I think it was Billy Joel who said "The good old days weren't always good and tomorrows not as bad as it seems"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

As far as taxes go, average tax rates in 1945 were far, far higher than they are now. And people paid willingly and without kicking, because they knew it was their duty to pay for the war, not to put it on the cuff for future generations. Another lesson the modern generation has forgotten.

As far as living like an absolute monarch is concerned, well, again, it depends on where you live, and what you do for a living, what sort of health insurance you have, and what your definition of "living well" really is. There's a lot more to a truly good life than the size of your bank account, the height of your living room ceiling, or the prestige of the school your kids attend -- and especially over the past thirty years or so our culture has lost sight of that. The modern generation carries on like a pack of crass, nouveau-riche strivers chasing after something they don't realize they're never going to get.

I agree with you, Lizzie. We have different birth years and live on opposite sides of the U.S.A., but we've both seen it happen. It was especially shocking for me upon returning home after living abroad for seven years (1998-2005): the America I came back to seemed radically different from the America I'd left -- and not just because of 9/11. I didn't recognize my homeland anymore, and still don't.

 

[Blackjack]

"As far as taxes go, average tax rates in 1945 were far, far higher than they are now. And people paid willingly and without kicking, because they knew it was their duty to pay for the war, not to put it on the cuff for future generations. Another lesson the modern generation has forgotten."
True Lizzie, the rates were higher to pay for the war but they also didn't have all these to pay
Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

Capital Gains Tax

CDL license Tax

Cigarette Tax

Corporate Income Tax

Court Fines (indirect taxes)

Dog License Tax

Federal Income Tax

Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)

Fishing License Tax

Food License Tax

Fuel permit tax

Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)

Hunting License Tax

Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)

Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)

IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax

Local Income Tax

Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax

Medicare Tax

Property Tax

Real Estate Tax

Septic Permit Tax

Service Charge Taxes

Social Security Tax

Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)

Sales Taxes

Recreational Vehicle Tax

Road Toll Booth Taxes

School Tax

State Income Tax

State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone federal excise tax

Telephone federal universal service fee tax

Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes

Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax

Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax

Telephone state and local tax

Telephone usage charge tax

Toll Bridge Taxes

Toll Tunnel Taxes

Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)

Trailer registration tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax

Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft registration Tax

Well Permit Tax

Workers Compensation Tax

COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. What the hell happened?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Actually, a hundred years ago, the vast majority of Americans were working class, laborers or farmers, not middle class -- the explosion of the middle class didn't happen until well into the 1950s, due largely to the GI Bill.

A hundred years ago, Mom was more likely to be working in a factory or on a farm than staying home to raise the kids. Usually the younger kids were raised by the older kids, or simply left to fend for themselves. The single-wage-earner family as a dominant feature of American life was, again, largely a creation of the postwar era, made possible by gains accomplished by the labor movement in the late 1930s, coupled with the postwar spending spree made possible by accumulated wartime savings suddenly flooding the economy.

Many of the taxes you mention were very much a part of the scene from the mid-thirties onward. Americans began paying Social Security taxes on January 1, 1937. Gasoline, road use and construction, and other such automobile-related taxes dated back to the teens. Telephone excise taxes and the like were being paid in the twenties. Liquor taxes were reimposed nationwide as a condition of the repeal of Prohibition, and had existed in most states prior to 1919. Tobacco products have been subject to federal taxes since 1862, and state taxes since 1921. Half of the 48 states were collecting sales tax before 1940, and most of the remaining states had sales taxes in place before 1960. Property and school taxes date to Colonial times, with the requirement of public funding of education written into the constitutions of most states by the end of the 19th Century.

People understood that taxes were part of the responsibilty of citizenship -- even during my own childhood, having your name listed in the town report for non-payment of taxes was seen as a public disgrace and humiliation, and people so listed were shunned by decent society. People in the Era paid their share without looking for dodges. Those who didn't ended up in Alcatraz. Pity that's not still the case, I can think of quite a few people on the current scene that I'd like to see there.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
Thank you for this information, Lizzie.

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah, I didn't catch that bottom line when I re-posted that. True the majority of folks would have still been on the farm 100 years ago, even less than that. I also agree that there's quite a few I'd like to see locked up. The biggest difference I see from when I was a tike is people used to be proud to be American and proud of America whatever faults it has ( like putting a guy juggling a baby on a skyscraper in a newsreel), today it seems people are more proud of the fact they can say how horrible they think it is here. Very strange...

 

[bil_maxx]

"I love the look of the Golden Era, but I realize that we live like kings in the most literal sense in the world of today."

Yes, and we are doing it on fiat money and are 13 trillion dollars in debt. How long do you think we are going to keep living like Kings? There are trade offs my friends for living the throw away, disposable lifestyle we enjoy. the products we use are mainly cheap imports that do not last, the clothes we wear are lucky to survive a dozen washings unless you want to pay through the nose for custom made clothing, the fast food most Americans live on is killing us, we are taxed to death, and are losing our freedoms of individual responsibility faster than we can keep track. Yes, we are living like Kings in our own crumbling little kingdoms. I repeat what I said before, I would take living in the 40's/ 50's in a second over these "good ol days".
Oh try to find a job today with any stability, then lets talk health insurance...

As I said in my post, I was not referring to posessions, toys and large homes. I am referring to the fact that people have decent incomes, good health and live in a safe society. Other than the last couple of years, the USA has done very well for itself and had the greatest amount of prosperity in history.
Now I live in Canada where the economy was not dragged down by mortgage and banking fraud so we are treading water but we are OK. We also have universal health-care which has been extensively proven to increase overall health and decrease mortality across the board.