Ok...Here's my rant! Lady is sexist?

[Valhson]

What about us poor southern boys? How many of you think 'M'am' is a sexist or insulting term?

I get chastised all the time about using 'M'am'.

Silly yankee girls think it's an insult!

For me it's just a reflex.

And no it has nothing to do with age of status, my father and I both call each other 'Sir' and refer to other men, regardless of age in the same manner.

HA HA HA

I got pulled over two days ago to be informed that my breaklight was out. The female officer told me to not use the term ma'am as using it more than once in a conversation is "Ma'am-ing her to death!"

I didn't know what to say in response so I went with the training.... "Aye Sir!"

 

[Bebop]

You can call me lady.

So, females don't like to be called ladies, women, ma'm, girls and possibly even referred to as "females". People don't want to be referred to as "you people", males don't like "dude" "boy" or feel funny called "gentlemen". Not to mention the multitude of people offended by having anyone refer to their race. So what in the world do we call each other? [huh] Strange to think that calling someone a lady would be sexist. I thought that being called a lady was what women strived towards.

I don't care what you call me. I am a pragmatist and will answer when I feel it would benefit my situation. Call me dude, sir, gentleman, Mr., hey you, funny looking guy with the hat, or if it makes you feel good, you can call me lady. Why would I care?

 

[dashiell]

Social connotations abound, but maybe the whole offense to it is because people don't consider themselves ladies and gentlemen.

Griffer last time someone said anything about me Sir-ing or Ma'am-ing them, I was on the west coast and I replied "Better to be thought silly with manners then to be a boorish goat without them." And I turned to my husband and said "We need to go home. I don't like it here where Sir is a vulgarity."

This, I must agree with. The main issue with this term (and it has become a term in the US, not a title ... I don't know about elsewhere) is that many people either know or suspect they don't qualify. I don't know why, but there it is.

Now, I spent the better part of my morning wrestling with a snake and a stubborn kitchen drain and installing light fixtures. At the moment I appear neither refined nor gentle, and I don't know that I ever have that appearance, or that I am ever refined and gentle at all. I can't be said to be weak or dependent or to need a man to care for me (given how many men I have to "clean up after" when they botch their own electrical or plumbing jobs). I'm certainly not in the upper echelons in terms of class status. Perhaps I'm not in line with certain definitions, but without apology or compunction, I consider myself a lady. I give respect, I deserve respect, and I accept nothing less than respect: I have a standard for my own conduct and the conduct of anyone associating with me, and I adhere to that standard. And I happen to be female.

As for the terms "Sir" and "Ma'am" ... well, I use them frequently. People sometimes think I'm implying they're old, but I use the same terms for all ages. I've always been the "too proper" or "too polite" or "too formal" person. I'm fine with that. If I happen to show someone more respect than they feel they deserve, who really has an issue?

I never object to being called a lady, or Ma'am. I don't even object to being called Sir*. Now, I've rambled on far too long, and I apologize!




*See, Diamondback? It's true.

 

[ShortClara]

I think of a lady not so much as what she owns but how she acts.

Yes! I agree - and the same for gentleman.

Every Lady is a woman but not all women are Ladies. I'm not surprised that the term is confusing nowadays, when the women people seem to admire are known more for the undergarments they do not wear than for their brains or accomplishments.

 

[DominusTecum]

PC gone absolutely nuts.... "Lady" is and always has been a good thing. Modern society, however, since the 1960s has tended towards the excessively casual and informal, and this trend is not limited to clothes, or posture, or whatever, it affect everything, including the language. These sorts of language issues pop up all the time for me, for whatever reason. I guess most people these days aren't raised in the "formal and polite" vein anymore, too bad.

As an example of a typical incident, this summer, as a college student, I worked at the local Pizza Hut. On the third day there, manager #1 had a little talk with me about something or other, and at the end I said "Oh, absolutely, sir." He looks at me funny, says "My name is JUSTIN. Not Sir. Got it?" A few days later, different manager, this one was a lady. She asked me to do something, and I naturally said "Yes ma'am." She stopped, smiled, and said "It's been so long since somebody called me ma'am, thank you!" Needless to say, one of these individuals handled the situation like a lady, and the other's conduct was ....less than gentlemanly, I should think. It doens't have to do with age, either, because they two are both in their 20s.

 

[Diamondback]

*See, Diamondback? It's true.

You are never gonna let me live that down, are you?:eusa_doh: Now where's that flashy-thingy memory messer-upper?*

I'd suspect this is symptomatic of other phenomena at work in society: it's like too many people nowadays are looking for something to be offended about. Possibly a side effect of being permanently in a "pumped up" state from needing to be a Type A+++++++ hyperaggressive go-getter around the office...

*Rewatch Men In Black if you don't get it.

 

[dhermann1]

I'd suspect this is symptomatic of other phenomena at work in society: it's like too many people nowadays are looking for something to be offended about.

So true!!!

 

[Classydame]

Thank you all for your responses and letting me vent! I feel less crazy now.

I was just telling her that I was beginning to address my 16 year-old son's girl friends (friend and "friends") as ladies. And she came up with sexist. I have always believed that being addressed as lady, miss or ma'am was respectful and I wanted to relay that to the young girls. And I must admit that I was slightly offended because I consider myself a lady. So I took her statement to mean that I am old-fashioned and sexist. Maybe just to sensitive on my part.

What is your idea of lady? Mine is someone who is respectful of herself and others, is caring, makes others feel welcome, has a sense of herself and stands up for herself and others in a firm but gentle way. I work on myself everyday to hopefully be this way.

Someone mentioned the casualness of society in general. I agree. I am frustrated with a college class that I am taking where the professor, who by the way is my age, acts as if he wants to be buddies with the students. He uses way too much profanity and some of his analogies are inappropriate, in my opinion. I feel disrespected in his class and what is sad is that the kids don't seem to feel the same.

Shellie

 

[Paisley]

My idea of a lady is, among other things, a woman who commands respect. She doesn't always make others feel comfortable, but they admire her.

As for your professor, I imagine your younger classmates see him for what he is: a man in authority trying to look like a rebel; an middle-aged man trying to be hip. There's no fool like an old fool.

 

[Starius]

Slightly off topic, but I have a friend who gets seriously offended if you call him "dude." He is of the old western mindset of when the word was a insult - not the more casual "friendly" use of the word.

As for young people of today, they've grown up in a world without Sir's, Ma'ams, ladies & gentlemen. They generally don't even have the frame of mind for what they mean or why they'd be used. I, myself have grown up in such a world really but I respect their use and certainly never have gotten offended when used on me. And that includes being called "ma'am!" (I used to have long hair, it happens.)

 

[Ben]

When I was showing Dan G. and his Navy buddies around Chicago, they all used Ma'am with my wife and she rather liked it.

I'm surprised to hear 'lady' considered sexist. Most of the time when I hear it now, people are using the word as a substitute for 'girlfriend' as in "my lady" (as opposed to milady, which is completely different).

 

[Lady Day]

I grew up using the term Ma'am.

"Yes Ma'am, no Ma'am" was almost a reflex when speaking to an older Lady.

I think of the term as seniority, not just in age, but in expertise in a subject or out of respect if your dont know the woman.

Woman is a gender, female (I HATE the slang of that term) is a scientific designation, and Lady is a sign of respect.

Lady D

 

[Foofoogal]

And she came up with sexist.

Shame on her. I still say Yes maam, yes sir. It is ingrained in me.
I am starting to see a revival of sort in teaching ladies to be ladies and gentlemen to be gentlemen around my area. Hopefully it will catch on.
I don't think "coming a long way baby" should translate into being treated like trash.

As far as the giving up seat on the bus someone wrote about I can completely understand the difference.
When some of the gentlemen come in the food pantry if they are temporarily in a spot I find they always feel better if some little way is done for them to pay us back whether it is to carry someone elses groceries out of fix some tiny thing for us. Dignity for the soul. I always tell everyone the way it works is to get back on your feet and come back and bring us stuff. You cannot imagine the ones who actually do. :eusa_clap

The sexiest I ever felt in my life was at a party one time when I had my hair done up beautifully and was well dressed. Back then some of the much older gentlemen worked for the company where my hubby was.
They just oohed and aahed for some reason over my hair done up on top of my head and respectful but really laying it on and jumping up to seat me and such.
Once a woman experiences this treatment from the gentlemen who know how to do this properly she will never want to not be called a lady. I guarantee. This is the problem. None of the younger girls have experienced the acts of a gentlemen opening a car door for them. etc.
We need a reverse revolt. lol

 

[Foofoogal]

And she came up with sexist.

Shame on her. I still say Yes maam, yes sir. It is ingrained in me.
I am starting to see a revival of sort in teaching ladies to be ladies and gentlemen to be gentlemen around my area. Hopefully it will catch on.
I don't think "coming a long way baby" should translate into being treated like trash.

As far as the giving up seat on the bus someone wrote about I can completely understand the difference.
When some of the gentlemen come in the food pantry if they are temporarily in a spot I find they always feel better if some little way is done for them to pay us back whether it is to carry someone elses groceries or fix some tiny thing for us. Dignity for the soul. I always tell everyone the way it works is to get back on your feet and come back and bring us stuff. You cannot imagine the ones who actually do. :eusa_clap

The sexiest I ever felt in my life was at a party one time when I had my hair done up beautifully and was well dressed. Back then some of the much older gentlemen worked for the company where my hubby was.
They just oohed and aahed for some reason over my hair done up on top of my head and respectful but really laying it on and jumping up to seat me and such.
Once a woman experiences this treatment from the gentlemen who know how to do this properly she will never want to not be called a lady. I guarantee. This is the problem. None of the younger girls have experienced the acts of a gentlemen opening a car door for them. etc.
We need a reverse revolt. lol

 

[Haversack]

"Meine Damen und Herren, Madames et Messieurs, Ladies and Gentlemen,..." All are terms of respect used in public when one wishes to be polite. Even if they technically are not "My Lady" and "My Lord", (which is the literal meaning of the French and German), using the higher status honourific to address someone not generally known to you is, or was, the way to be polite. Its a bit of light flattery designed to lubricate the social machinery. Besides, you never knew. The people being addressed might actually deserve the honourific and would be insulted if you were too familiar. Disrespect then could have as negative an effect then as it does today.

Haversack.

 

[killertomata]

I find it just ridiculous that anyone would say 'lady' is a sexist term. I can be very sensitive about being treated poorly due to gender, and believe me if anyone had heard of this it would have been me.

I'm a bit flabbergasted at the idea, honestly.

The only person I have ever known who didn't like the word was my last boss... she didn't like it because to her it is used to refer to an older woman. She is in her fifties and not ready to be 'older' yet, so she asked to not be called 'Lady'- but it wasn't even a sexist term in her case.

Some people's children. Honestly. Lady- sexist? ha!

 

[dhermann1]

In any kind of relationship counseling the first thing they always tell you is to express yourself in terms of "I think", or "I feel". That's the only area where you have absolute knowledge. If someone says "I feel" that a term is offensive, they can say so and you can deal with it. To arbitrarily declare something to be morally uncool is what creates wars. Sounds like a lot of people react to this word in the latter manner. Why can't we just all get along???
This whole issue encapsulates something very much bigger, and I can't put my finger on it. People seem to lose themselves in all or nothing issues that somehow represent some sort of ultimate life or death conflict. Sheesh. The human race needs to lighten up, already.

 

[db5zx]

I'm working in a rather casual environment where everybody calls everybody by their first names, dresses casually and the entire atmosphere is more friends than colleagues or boss-and-employee. Still, whenever one of my supervisors calls me, I instinctively reply "Yes, sir." or "Yes, ma'am." depending of who it is that's calling me. At first, they looked kinda strange at me, but they now know that that's my style and they appreciate it.

And, to get a little bit closer to the original point of the thread: I think "lady" is a great term and should be used much more often... on women, anyway, I don't think I'd be too happy if someone called me a "lady"

Jens

 

[PrettySquareGal]

The thing about feminism is that it is supposed to give women/ladies/girls more options and empower them to make their own choices. That includes what they preferred to be called. One may like "lady" and another "woman."

In college I had a sociology professor tell the class that "lady" was a throwback to pre-feminism and if we wanted to be taken seriously we would use "woman." She said "ladies are perceived as fragile and in need of male assistance." I believed it for a while. Then I learned the difference between refined and fragile.

Lizzie and I have talked about this on the FL, but in Maine older men and women often call others "dee-ah." I find it to be very indee-ahing.

 

[jake431]

In college I had a sociology professor tell the class that "lady" was a throwback to pre-feminism and if we wanted to be taken seriously we would use "woman." She said "ladies are perceived as fragile and in need of male assistance." I believed it for a while. Then I learned the difference between refined and fragile.

Honestly, this, as much as anything indicates what post feminism really is - the term lady, historically, does have the connotations of inferred inferiority the professors in this thread have sort of mentioned. But to those of the post-feminist age, it does not seem to be so at all.

I grew up in a fairly feminist house - I vividly recall being chastised for attempting chivalry. My mom firmly believed that treating a woman differently for being born a woman was insulting, that people, men or women, had to earn respect, not be shown if for something they had no control over - being born a particular sex. While, intellectually, I agree with my Mom, as a man who wants to get married someday, I have not found her teachings to help me much in the dating arena. So I do get doors, always offer to pay etc - but I can see both sides of the situation, I guess.

As will all things good and bad in life - blame your parents!

-Jake