Obsolete Occupations

[LizzieMaine]

TV's and radios used to be easy to repair. And needed it often. Tube equipment requires high voltages, high currents, generate a lot of heat and tubes burn out as often as light bulbs. That's why you used to be able to run down to the corner drugstore and find a tube tester and a supply of tubes. Today I have tv's that are over 20 years old and radios over 30 that have never needed any kind of repair at all. That wouldn't have happened with tube technology.

I'll take issue with some of this, as someone who's worked on vintage tube electronics both as a hobby and in the workplace, for over twenty-five years.

*Some* types of tubes burn out as quickly as light bulbs, but the fact is those are very specialized types -- most notably those used in high-demand circuits like the horizontal output section of a TV set. Specifically, those used in TV sets built between about 1957 and 1967, when manufacturers began building down to a price rather than emphasizing quality -- the first real era of Planned Obsolescence. The days of the regular visit by the TV Repair Man were largely confined to this era -- if you owned a late-forties-vintage DuMont or RCA television, you owned a quality instrument that was in fact built to last, but if you were watching a 1957 Muntz -- well, you got what you paid for.

Other tubes, the sort used in most radios and earlier television sets, very very rarely "burn out." I've had a 1937 Philco console in my living room since 1984, under regular heavy use -- several hours each day, usually -- and in all that time, I've had to replace one tube, a rectifier that popped its filament one morning. All other tubes in the set are the same ones that were in it when I bought it, and most of them were evidently in the set when it was first sold. Tubes are very very rarely to blame for problems in household-grade radios, and the propaganda about replacing them regularly was largely the result of aggressive salesmanship from tube companies, not anything relating to real life conditions in the field.

Usually the components that fail are paper capacitors, which were the cause of most repair jobs in the Era, and which jobs usually cost the set owner a couple of dollars. Most independent radio repair shops of the day were shoestring operations -- the majority of repairmen worked for radio dealers, who could support repair service as a loss leader.

As far as other consumer goods go, some were indeed junk -- the sort of stuff you'd get at Woolworth's or Western Auto wouldn't likely last more than a few years, not too different from the Wal-Mart appliances you get today. But I'd venture to say that the percentage of junk to quality was quite a bit different from that of today, and I say this as someone who uses vintage household appliances exclusively. My 65-year-old Kelvinator refrigerator, which I've owned since 1988, has outlasted *three* of my mother's modern refrigerators, and if you take a look at the works, you'll immediately see why.

 

[vitanola]

I'll take issue with some of this, as someone who's worked on vintage tube electronics both as a hobby and in the workplace, for over twenty-five years.

*Some* types of tubes burn out as quickly as light bulbs, but the fact is those are very specialized types -- most notably those used in high-demand circuits like the horizontal output section of a TV set. Specifically, those used in TV sets built between about 1957 and 1967, when manufacturers began building down to a price rather than emphasizing quality -- the first real era of Planned Obsolescence. The days of the regular visit by the TV Repair Man were largely confined to this era -- if you owned a late-forties-vintage DuMont or RCA television, you owned a quality instrument that was in fact built to last, but if you were watching a 1957 Muntz -- well, you got what you paid for.

Other tubes, the sort used in most radios and earlier television sets, very very rarely "burn out." I've had a 1937 Philco console in my living room since 1984, under regular heavy use -- several hours each day, usually -- and in all that time, I've had to replace one tube, a rectifier that popped its filament one morning. All other tubes in the set are the same ones that were in it when I bought it, and most of them were evidently in the set when it was first sold. Tubes are very very rarely to blame for problems in household-grade radios, and the propaganda about replacing them regularly was largely the result of aggressive salesmanship from tube companies, not anything relating to real life conditions in the field.

Usually the components that fail are paper capacitors, which were the cause of most repair jobs in the Era, and which jobs usually cost the set owner a couple of dollars. Most independent radio repair shops of the day were shoestring operations -- the majority of repairmen worked for radio dealers, who could support repair service as a loss leader.

As far as other consumer goods go, some were indeed junk -- the sort of stuff you'd get at Woolworth's or Western Auto wouldn't likely last more than a few years, not too different from the Wal-Mart appliances you get today. But I'd venture to say that the percentage of junk to quality was quite a bit different from that of today, and I say this as someone who uses vintage household appliances exclusively. My 65-year-old Kelvinator refrigerator, which I've owned since 1988, has outlasted *three* of my mother's modern refrigerators, and if you take a look at the works, you'll immediately see why.

Those who have not actually used pre-war appliances in daily service "know" that they simply cannot be functional. Naught will convince them otherwise.

I have a bit more tube trouble than you do, but only because I chose to use a much more primitive set in my daily service (a Victor Borgia II, with a string of troublesome UX-199's). The set is atypical, for when it was built in 1926 it represented the absolute limits of the electronics of its day. In my collection is also a common Radiola 60, a light-socket superhetrodyne of 1928 vintage, which has never required repair and still retains its original group of vacuum tubes. Vacuum tube radio technology by about 1933 reached a point where subsequent improvements in both function and reliability were of minor import.

Home appliances of the pre-war period were generally of two classes. The name brands were invariably of high quality, made to last a lifetime, but there was also a class of appliance offered by many chain stores and mail-order outlets which was on par with modern disposable junk. Not much of the junk, made by firms like Morris Struhl and Red Star Electric has survived to plague modern collectors. The quality products were generally sold by the better department and specialty stores. The triumph of the disposable appliance appears to me to coincide with the ascendance of the discount store, which largely drove quality into a tiny niche market.

A 65 year-old Kelvinator?

I thought that you used VINTAGE appliances.

 

[Chainsaw]

T.v.'s & Tube radios

We just got rid of our last RCA a couple years ago. We had to pry it out of my grandmothers hands. It was older than I am, but the colour went.

Anyhow, I got a really fast Normande tube radio, for 15$. The sound is so rich, I don't believe anything compares.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Vacuum tube radio technology by about 1933 reached a point where subsequent improvements in both function and reliability were of minor import.

Exactly. The radio market from about 1933 until the war started was driven largely by the introduction of new features, most notably all-wave reception, not by the wearing-out of earlier sets -- some dealers went so far as to offer cash bounties for older sets turned in for destruction as a way of encouraging set owners to move up, because they knew the old ones weren't going to die natural deaths. The level of workmanship in Depression-era radios, in general, may in fact mark the very peak of American mass-produced quality.

Home appliances of the pre-war period were generally of two classes. The name brands were invariably of high quality, made to last a lifetime, but there was also a class of appliance offered by many chain stores and mail-order outlets which was on par with modern disposable junk.

This is the biggest difference between then and now, I think -- then, a brand name *meant* something, it was directly tied to the integrity of the company that produced it. If you bought a Philco radio, you knew there was a company named Philco in Philadelphia that stood behind the product, and the entire reputation of that company depended on maintaining the integrity of the brand. If you wanted quality, you knew to go to a Philco dealer, and to avoid the cheap four-tube curtain burner from the drugstore.

We don't really have that today for consumer appliances anymore. Today we have sales companies owning "brand portfolios" who slap different logos onto identical cheap imported merchandise -- when you buy a Philco or an RCA or a Zenith product today, the name is meaningless except as a way of trading on residual goodwill recognition in the marketplace. The shopper really has no idea what she's getting or who actually made it or who to blame when it goes bad. In effect the whole appliance marketplace has become the equivalent of a 1930s cut-rate drugstore.

 

[Fletch]

But - as Jim alludes to upthread - if the economics have to rule the day, our ideals about having quality, lasting stuff are going to have to go by the boards.

What if our current standard of living really is built on consuming easily replaceable, profitably made and sold, cheap crap to such a degree that nothing can replace it?

 

[LizzieMaine]

But - as Jim alludes to upthread - if the economics have to rule the day, our ideals about having quality, lasting stuff are going to have to go by the boards.

What if our current standard of living really is built on consuming easily replaceable, profitably made and sold, cheap crap to such a degree that nothing can replace it?

There isn't *anything* that can be done as a culture or a society, at least until we finally run out of stuff to make into cheap worthless crap, or until people wise up. I'm betting the former happens before the latter. Me, I'm just going to keep on the way I always have, and will try very hard not to let the *irritation* I feel with modern culture get the better of me. I'm not hoping to live to see the 22nd Century, but I'll put up with the 21st as long as I have to.

 

[sixties.nut]

Lizzie

are you telling us that your take on all the new fangled gadets is closely aligned with Dave?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0

Go ahead tell us like it is, don't hold back. lol

 

[Fletch]

There isn't *anything* that can be done as a culture or a society, at least until we finally run out of stuff to make into cheap worthless crap, or until people wise up. I'm betting the former happens before the latter. Me, I'm just going to keep on the way I always have, and will try very hard not to let the *irritation* I feel with modern culture get the better of me.

Hope we'll be here to salve your irritation as long as we can.

 

[MPicciotto]

What if our current standard of living really is built on consuming easily replaceable, profitably made and sold, cheap crap to such a degree that nothing can replace it?

Darn it! You just uncovered IKEA's business plan!

Matt

 

[vitanola]

But - as Jim alludes to upthread - if the economics have to rule the day, our ideals about having quality, lasting stuff are going to have to go by the boards.

What if our current standard of living really is built on consuming easily replaceable, profitably made and sold, cheap crap to such a degree that nothing can replace it?

Much of this has to do with the differing time horizons for "shareholder value" imposed on our manufacturers and retailers over the past thirty years or so. In recent times, the performance of the management of a firm is judged solely on their quarterly numbers. Seldom are the intangible assets (or intangible costs for that matter), those which do not immediately turn up on a quarterly report, valued by management, for in the current environment those who concern themselves with such costs are quickly replaced. The values of which I speak include a firm's reputation and customer good will, neither of which may be quantified easily enough to appear at full value on a quarterly report. The costs which I hint at include social costs such as the overall effect on a consumer economy of wage arbitrage, and many other issues which may be lumped under the general heading of "The Tragedy of the Commons."

 

[Tailor Tom]

Hmmm. You may be missing an important factor that several of us have been trying to point out. This isn't about philosophy. It's about economics. I'm pretty resourceful when it comes to repairing my own possessions. I can almost always find the information I need and generally either find the part I need or make do. Whether the item was intended to be repairable or not.

What I cannot do is make money repairing some else's stuff. I can only save my own money and spend my own time.

I think JimWagner has hit on a great point on this case. That is whether the fix can be repaired economically. Because if it can't,it is all a moot point. Yes, you can look things up online, or research things in other ways. But one needs to bill out that time somehow. And I doubt that the customer would be willing to bare the brunt of that cost.

I was looking for parts for my 17 year old Sears Craftsman snowblower this past fall. Now, Sears is above and beyond a lot of companies, in that, you can find scads of info online and they will certainly accept orders for items, etc. I hit the computer with the model & serial number, etc. in hand and it still took hours to order the required parts. If I was working this as a Business, who would I bill that time to? Would you, as a business owner, be willing to "eat" those costs for a large proportion of your repairs? If you "catolog" such info...where do you build those costs into the business plan...and did you get ALL the info?

It took several weeks to get the parts without paying a shipping premium. And they didn't all come at the same time either. I fixed my snowblower, and she runs fine, but if I had to bill it all out somehow, it would be hundreds of dollars, close to the cost of a new machine.

Those are the major reasons that most places Sell merchandise and do Repairs as a sideline only.

 

[Tailor Tom]

Exactly. The radio market from about 1933 until the war started was driven largely by the introduction of new features, most notably all-wave reception, not by the wearing-out of earlier sets -- some dealers went so far as to offer cash bounties for older sets turned in for destruction as a way of encouraging set owners to move up, because they knew the old ones weren't going to die natural deaths. The level of workmanship in Depression-era radios, in general, may in fact mark the very peak of American mass-produced quality.



This is the biggest difference between then and now, I think -- then, a brand name *meant* something, it was directly tied to the integrity of the company that produced it. If you bought a Philco radio, you knew there was a company named Philco in Philadelphia that stood behind the product, and the entire reputation of that company depended on maintaining the integrity of the brand. If you wanted quality, you knew to go to a Philco dealer, and to avoid the cheap four-tube curtain burner from the drugstore.

We don't really have that today for consumer appliances anymore. Today we have sales companies owning "brand portfolios" who slap different logos onto identical cheap imported merchandise -- when you buy a Philco or an RCA or a Zenith product today, the name is meaningless except as a way of trading on residual goodwill recognition in the marketplace. The shopper really has no idea what she's getting or who actually made it or who to blame when it goes bad. In effect the whole appliance marketplace has become the equivalent of a 1930s cut-rate drugstore.

Lizzie hits several great points. I remember old (late 60's ? ) ads for color TV's and that they were designed for easy repairs. I recall something about "easy front slide-out circuit boards" They knew things were bound to fail. But still designed and marketed for that fact. Now things are just cast aside.

My mother recently went to replace her 51 year old Pfaff sewing machine with a new Pfaff. There really wasn't anything wrong with tho old one. It is just about as in-destructible as can be ( cast metal, simple controls, etc). The new one is mostly plastic, has "Designed in Germany" plastered all over the manual, etc. But after much searching, finally on the bottom, in tiny print it said "made in china" Very sad for such a grand old Company and a seriously expensive sewing machine.

 

[JimWagner]

Those are the major reasons that most places Sell merchandise and do Repairs as a sideline only.

Precisely.

That I understand it doesn't mean I like it, though. And understanding it was why I didn't open a radio/tv repair shop in the 80's.

 

[davestlouis]

Here's an obsolete job...night man in a mortuary. When I was in college I worked several nights a week from 7PM to 7AM, in the basement of Kriegshauser South Mortuary in St. Louis, answering the phone if a death call would happen to come in.

Now, we forward the phones to the answering service in Pennsylvania, I think, and they field after-hour calls. They then call our on-call staff on their cell phones if they need to be located.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Now, we forward the phones to the answering service in Pennsylvania, I think, and they field after-hour calls. They then call our on-call staff on their cell phones if they need to be located.

They do the same thing at some McDonalds. When you place your order in the drive-through line it's taken by a call center who then relays the order to the burger flippers inside who are just a few yards away!

 

[MPicciotto]

They do the same thing at some McDonalds. When you place your order in the drive-through line it's taken by a call center who then relays the order to the burger flippers inside who are just a few yards away!

WHAT?!?! Are you serious? Oddly some of our fast food joints in this area have somebody at a window that you order from, then you pull up to the next window for your food.

Matt

 

[vitanola]

At some locations McDonalds has been contracting out their window service to call centers in INDIA, as they believe it to be cheaper.

 

[Chainsaw]

Call centers from India

Tell me about it. They have been using these call centers for a while now here in Canada. It's Mada Hara veined techniques. First we lost the telephone operators to automated systems.

(oh, we lost Bell Canada (which provided optimum service, to the whole of Canada) because of American pressure. No monopoly rule, same that allowed Japanese company's to rule America) Wheres the logic? Capitalism, self defeating.)

Then many phone services were switched over to these new call centers. I was impressed the first time I spoke to someone, they had the perfect English accent, I remembering remarking,

"Wow, it's nice to finally have people with manners, and pleasant sounding voice's answering my calls."

There are other call centers too that are manned by people with small town American accents.

These people are trained by Canadians and Americans, and they work for the equivalent of 10 dollars a day.

The new 411 operators are the worst, I miss Bell Canada

 

[John in Covina]

One off shoot of this Central phone is that I cannot call an actual branch of my bank. Let's say I was at the Covina branch and may have left my check book at the counter there is no actual way to connect to the branch. You have to go back there in person to speak to anyone there. All listed phone numbers are for a central number and they can not connect you. You need to get an actual business card from someone at the branch because the number for the branch is not listed.
Next time you go to your bank get a manager's number in case you need to contact them the central answer number is helpless.

 

[davestlouis]

Same with a local pizza place...call a centralized ph#, place your order, they determine which location is relatively close and the least backed-up, and send the order there, so my orders can come from one of 3 locations, depending on their schedule.