NYPD going back to super strict 8- point hat uniform policy

[Erik]

A combination of cultural norms, officer safety related issues, and shrinking automobile dimensions has spelled doom for hats across most of the American law enforcement scene. And in what will undoubtedly seem odd to forumites, the tenancy for police agencies to adhere to traditional hat designs found virtually no where else in use in society has not helped matters.

Regardless, though, I applaud the effort to bring the dress and appearance standards up a notch or two.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

I personally don't agree with it. Instead of focusing on the appearance of your police force, focus on their performance. I won't like the cop with flagrant disregard for the laws he's supposed to be enforcing anymore if he's dressed prettier. Furthermore, function takes a huge precedent over appearance in big cities, in my opinion.

It's like show horses; feel free to get 'em done up all nice and pretty, but don't expect them to pull the plow.

My guess is it's being done to appease some funder of the PD.

Not exactly. An officer's "presence" is the first level of force. That includes how you look to an extent. Think about it, are you more likely to listen to an officer that looks like Barney Fife, or Reed & Malloy from Adam-12? Or Jon, and Ponch, for that matter.

There was a show on the Discovery Channel that interviewed criminals that had attacked police officers. Their decision to fight was influenced subliminally by the way the officer presented himself. Unpolished leather, dusty firearm, etc., added up to the guy isn't paying attention, and I can take him.

I remember reading another study where police headgear was judged for how much 'authority' it presented. The Montana Peak/ Campaign hat that most State Troopers wear scored tops, followed by the 8-point, because they most represented a law enforcement image. The cowboy hat scored pretty low. But, the baseball cap scored lower than not wearing a hat. Plus, I always thought that a ball cap with a dress shirt and tie looks absolutely stupid.

BTW- The German Polizei who have been wearing tan, and green uniforms since the 70's, with a white & green round service cap, are switching to all dark blue uniforms, with a NYPD style 8-point hat. Now that they are members of the EU, the police departments are standardizing their "look" so that someone from any country can recognize a police officer at a glance.

 

[metropd]

Over the Past year a couple cities in Mississippi and Alabama went back to a mandatory service cap(peaked cap) Policy.

 

[lc1484]

I always wear my service hat, it has seen hell, it's over 18 years old, torn up, faded, and crushed to fit in my pocket, but I always opt to wear that instead of a ball cap on duty. You put it on for lineup, walking a beat, and when you sign off.

Now I wear a motorcycle helmet, but once that comes off, the service hat goes on....

the only time you see me in a ball cap is when I have to wear BDU's carrying a riot helmet...the ball cap goes with the soft clothes.

 

[Imahomer]

Did I understand you to say that you could put your uniform hat in your pocket? That sucker must be beaten to death and from your description of it, I'd say it is! I guess, when I was working, I could have crammed mine into something like a pocket, but it probably would have looked like heck when I went to put it on and that goes back to that looking professional stuff.

 

[cookie]

I I have literally had my pants start unravelling.

lol lol

 

[lc1484]

Yeah, it rolls up and fits in my sap pocket...here is a pic of me at the Presidio last year when I played the bagpipes for the National Wreath Laying before Xmas...

I beg to differ about looking professional as well....some agencies tailor their uniform and always are perfect...most major metro cities are little more lax except for LAPD...those cops are always sharp..that goes from all the former military in that dept....

It is San Francisco PD...

Professionalism goes with how you carry yourself....the hat may look crappy to some but some traditions go without saying...

the same with NYPD...IMHO, most cops take their stuff to the cleaners...when they started going to uniform allowances, that's when everyone looked like slobs, because cops would buy the cheapest stuff possible if they didnt care. I only thought some cops looked sloppy when the uniform pants were polyester with tons of pockets like EMT type. But NYPD doesn't get paid much for a big city that costs more to live in than SF.

but the service hats are something you have to like to wear...its like the fedora, Everycop wore their cover up until the late 80's, then ball caps were allowed. its a rare thing to see many cops wearing their service hats and opting for a ball cap cover instead...the only time you see all the cops wearing the 8 point service cap is either at a formal line, up, police funeral.


<a href="http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/?action=view&current=wreathlayingceremony-1-1-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/lc1484/wreathlayingceremony-1-1-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Imahomer]

First off, I feel pretty strongly about some of this stuff, so this isn't a personal attack, but they are my personal feelings.

I do agreee somewhat with your statement about "Professionalism goes with how you carry yourself." However, as I stated in an earlier post, safety is mostly a perceived thing. People look at a squared away, LAPD style officer and do feel safer. I mean, geesh... you've probably never had to buy your uniform. There was a time when you had to purchase your own uniform, so they would be stitched up when ripped and just worn to death. Now we just get a new one, when it's torn, or a little worn. Plus most departments give you money to keep it pressed and clean!

I can't really speak for a lot of the big PDs that are out there, because I haven't worked them and I've only visited a few. By the way, LAPD has that squared away military look, not because they hire a lot of former military people, but because when they decided to clean up their act years ago the Chief and several members of the upper brass were former military and knew what they wanted. They now enforce their grooming standards, unlike some places.

San Francisco (which is relatively small in size compared to places like N.Y and L.A.) is still one of those places where I can find a cop who looks like he slept in his uniform and doesn't wear keepers so his gunbelt is slung down like an old western gunfighter. Granted it's gotten better over the years, but come on! That's embarassing!!! BTW, what does that mean... "It is San Francisco." That sure sounds like an excuse.

I can't believe you'd roll up your hat and put it in your sap pocket. Afterall, there is a reason it's called a sap pocket and not a hat pocket!
As far a wearing the service hat, yes I understand that now days the ball cap is prefered by most. I remember the days when you'd get in trouble for getting out of your car and handling a call without your hat on. I'm wondering what's wrong with looking sharp? Why is it that many people respond with something like, "well, I'd rather be professional, than just look sharp." What's the matter with being professional and looking sharp, other than it takes a little more effort?

I suppose I just don't like sloppy.

 

[Imahomer]

Again...

Sorry if I came off too strong for you.

 

[lc1484]

No Offense taken ....I agree, we have a lot of slobs in SF....I realized that when we had the steps of the police memorial one year, and most of us had faded ike jackets, no creases, scuffed up, no shine boots....if my uniform is dirty or lost its crease, I pulled out a new one....but usually my boots are always glass, spit polished ...I agree with you on the professionalism of not looking like a slob...(but uniform vouchers were the best thing we used to have, because there is no excuse for a torn up dirty uniform) now we get 32 dollars a paycheck before it is taxed towards uniforms and uniform shirts a piece are a hundered bucks...you know cops will pocket it and patch the existing stuff.

the hat on the other hand speaks for itself...like I said the beat up, crusher looking hat is tradition...and I was a beat cop, so that hat was worn in the rain, etc...its like your favorite old fedora..you can't bear to toss it...its been involved in many things. the last donnybrook occurred 4 years ago from some chronc tore it off my head it he rain and chewed my bill right off...

after i found it in a tenderloin gutter aftwerwards...I cleaned it and tried to get it back to together...(its the same sad shower cap in the picture).

What I meant about SF is that SF doesn't even enforce anything passed by the voters of CA, they will hardly go after the cops for uniforms. We got cops wearing black high top basketball shoes to work...

SF its a different world.

 

[Imahomer]

Yep, it's a different world alright, but that doesn't mean you should just shrug your shoulders and say oh well. My dad retired from there as an Inspector after 30 years. He spent a long time on motorcycles before he made the bureau. When on motorcycle patrol he wore the soft hat, prior to helmets being issued and his hat looked pretty good. I've got photos that clearly show the points on his hat.

For me, I was in the 124th academy class, so things had certainly changed from his time to my time, just like things have apparently changed from my time to your time. My thought was to be professional and look professional when I was working.

I'm wondering if the FTO program has a professional image, or does the sloppy look start there?

 

[lc1484]

no...they don't instill the real professional look in the program as much as you would like. IMO.when I was training..the recruits looked worse then me....I told them that should not happen, but thats the trend now....I told my recruits that the they should look better than me...but that wasn't the case....except my hat...but I told them they could never have a hat look like mine...Uniformity is not followed in the dept, when it comes to training too..no one is on the same page...

I get flack for wearing my duty hat once off the motorcycle...I love baseball caps, but there are a time and place for that hat...that's just me...besides...I have a better serviceable hat before, but my back lid opened on the freeway and that hat shot out somwhere on Army St...I think some homeless guy is wearing it now..

I was the 176th class....way away from you....I would like to see some pics of your dad on the bike...I collect anything old from the M/C unit....and we are trying update some of the photos at traffic company...can you PM them to me please if you can?