Nutria blended felt...

[feltfan]

Sure would be interesting to know, feltfan. Any idea how old those hats you allude to might be?
The use of mercury in American hat-making ceased in the late 1930s, or so my reading indicates. But there was some fine felt made in the 1940s and '50s, presumably without benefit of mercury, so it would be good to know how the felt-making process of that era compares to how it's done now.

My best guess on the Clear Nutria is 1920s. My
best guess on the Nutria Quality is 1940s.

I thought mercury was used only in the finishing
process, to get that soft feel? There is a density and strength
to these felts (especially the Clear Nutria) that is
unparalleled in my experience.

I'm guessing there is no one answer. There are probably
a lot of steps to the felting process, and each one isn't
done today as it was then. I wonder if it can be?

 

[DanielJones]

Well, what ever the case, be it a "process" or just a fur blend from the nutria, I for one will love to find out. It's kind of silly, but I would dig on it if it was a fur blend from a swamp rat. It would make it a bit more special in a funny sort of way.
Anyway I would still love to know the answer and maybe HATCO can get back to us on this question. This has been a fun discussion, I didn't think it would even go this far. Lets hear it for the nutria! Mmmm, that's good eats! And a nice lid too.lol

Cheers!

Dan

 

[HATCO]

Stetson 15X Black

We actually have a nutria blend hat that we make in western called the Stetson Black. It's been around for a little over 2 years. Here it is pictured.

I will look into the possibility of a nutria blend dress hat and get back to you.

 

[DanielJones]

Well that sure is a nice looking lid Mr. Range, there is no doubt about that. And we would be very excited about seeing a dress fedora in the classic "Golden Era" style, to be sure & certain. But one thing is on my mind (and I think a few others here) what is the nutria blend? Is it a fur blend like I'm surmising or a "process", like with the felting & finishing of the furs into the body of the hat to be? I quite sure that we would love to know and be able to put to bed this bantying around ideas of a South American swam rat blended with beaver to make a water repellent chapeau. Thank you.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[HATCO]

Nutria Blend

It is basically a mixture of rabbit, wild hare, and nutria fur mixed together in a certain ratio. Once the fur is uniformly mixed it then goes through the process of being turned into a felt body. I hope this answered your question.

As you are aware in our western division we denote different qualities through the X system. Basically the "X" determines the overall ratio of rabbit, wild hare, beaver. As the X goes up the ratios change. It's no secret that as the X goes up the ratio of Beaver goes up as well.

 

[feltfan]

It is basically a mixture of rabbit, wild hare, and nutria fur mixed together in a certain ratio. Once the fur is uniformly mixed it then goes through the process of being turned into a felt body. I hope this answered your question.

My question remains- what is the difference between the
process used to make the CLEAR NUTRIA or CLEAR BEAVER
of the 1920s-1940s and the one used to make nutria felt today?
They are not the same product. "the process of being turned into
a felt body" can mean a lot of things.

I think Dan's question is still unanswered, too, unless I misinterpret.
Given the population explosion of nutria, wouldn't nutria felt become
an inexpensive alternative? How much of a felt's price is the fur?

As you are aware in our western division we denote different qualities through the X system. Basically the "X" determines the overall ratio of rabbit, wild hare, beaver. As the X goes up the ratios change. It's no secret that as the X goes up the ratio of Beaver goes up as well.

What is the percentage of beaver fur per "X"?

 

[HATCO]

My question remains- what is the difference between the
process used to make the CLEAR NUTRIA or CLEAR BEAVER
of the 1920s-1940s and the one used to make nutria felt today?
They are not the same product. "the process of being turned into
a felt body" can mean a lot of things.

I think Dan's question is still unanswered, too, unless I misinterpret.
Given the population explosion of nutria, wouldn't nutria felt become
an inexpensive alternative?

Sorry for the wait. You may have to wait a bit more. I am still working on a reply to your original question. I want to make sure everything is correct. I hope you understand.

How much of a felt's price is the fur?

For reasons I'm sure you'll understand, I am not privy to that information. I do not think I would be able to find that out.

What is the percentage of beaver fur per "X"?

As stated above I would not be able to find out. For competitive reasons our blends are closely guarded secrets. Much like the formula to Coca-Cola, the people who need to know the recipe, know the recipe. Those who don't need to know, don't. I can tell you that we haven't changed the ratios of the fur, nor will we.

 

[feltfan]

Sorry for the wait. You may have to wait a bit more. I am still working on a reply to your original question. I want to make sure everything is correct. I hope you understand.

I'd be delighted to wait a year for the answers to my original questions!

Much like the formula to Coca-Cola, the people who need to know the recipe, know the recipe.

That is very funny. lol

I can tell you that we haven't changed the ratios of the fur, nor will we.

Hatco may not have changed the ratios, but certainly it
is verifiable that, over the decades, the meaning of the Xs has
changed in Stetson hats. We have discussed this on this forum
many time before, so I won't belabor the point. Suffice it to say
that there was no place in the X range for a 1000X hat in the
1940s.

The real question facing production hat makers today is not
the fur content, which is easy enough to change (and in any
event, one can make a fine hat with 50% hare). The question
is the fur making process. Color fast felts that don't taper in
moisture and can remember a block without excessive stiffener.
That's it in a sentence (though I also agree with Tony in Tarzana about
soft leather sweatbands) and why I bring up the process question.

I know we (and certainly I) can come off as esoteric, nostalgic,
or elitist WRT hats. But I honestly believe that dress hats will
never return until the quality returns. I have some soft vintage cowboy
hats that tell me such values would help that market, too.

I hope you can find our strong feelings regarding hats and quality to be
encouragement, rather than criticism. The outpouring of response to your
postings could be a bit much. I hope you're enjoying this as much as we are.

 

[tonyb]

I thought mercury was used only in the finishing
process, to get that soft feel? There is a density and strength
to these felts (especially the Clear Nutria) that is
unparalleled in my experience.

I don't know for certain, as I've never seen it done myself (nor has just about anyone still among us who is old enough to have been there himself), but I'd be willing to wager a couple of bucks that the mercury was used earlier in the process. I've read here and elsewhere that the mercury formulation raised the little barbs on the individual fur fibers, allowing those fibers to interlock more securely, resulting in a denser, stronger felt. It was called "carroting" because it imparted a carrot-like color, so it would have had to been done ahead of dyeing and certainly well ahead of finishing. Or so I would think, anyway.
Art, care to weigh in here?

 

[HATCO]

Hatco may not have changed the ratios, but certainly it
is verifiable that, over the decades, the meaning of the Xs has
changed in Stetson hats. We have discussed this on this forum
many time before, so I won't belabor the point. Suffice it to say
that there was no place in the X range for a 1000X hat in the
1940s.

It certainly has been an arms race regarding X's . Basically the market forced us in that direction on certain styles of hats.. What was originally something internal to denote recipes became a part of marketing. Many western hat makers use the X quality as it is well known. Unfortunately much like the pearl trade there is no international standard for denoting quality. This becomes a problem when another hat manufacturer can make a hat comparable to our 4X hat and stamp 30X on it. I'm sorry I'm unable to get deeper into this for obvious reasons, but I can say that materials used in the creation of the hat other than the fur felt increase the value of the hat and the X's once you get over 100X. I can honestly tell you that we still honor the X system that was created many years ago.

 

[Undertow]

Color fast felts that don't taper in
moisture and can remember a block without excessive stiffener.
That's it in a sentence (though I also agree with Tony in Tarzana about
soft leather sweatbands) and why I bring up the process question.

I know we (and certainly I) can come off as esoteric, nostalgic,
or elitist WRT hats. But I honestly believe that dress hats will
never return until the quality returns.

I totally agree here! :eusa_clap

Bring the quality back and the gents will slowly file in.

I believe HatCo is in an excellent position to market this as well. What older gentleman, or younger gentleman, wouldn't like to own a Stetson fedora that he could one day pass down to his grandson? Not only does the name "Stetson" ring a bell, but being able to honestly equate lasting quality with an established name could quickly reestablish the hat market. Imagine, men all over America buying Stetson fedoras, homburgs, porkpies, as well as cowboy style hats and straws because the name means style and the name means USA. It wouldn’t be long before Asian business men would be crawling all over each other to own an American Stetson that really set them apart (and lasted longer than one rainstorm).

Although the FL seems to be a small niche in the world of style, men truly want to look good. And when it comes to looking good, suits and accessories are key. So where do men turn to catch up on style? GQ, visual media and the internet.

Save for the variables regarding GQ, movies, television and most reputable spots on the internet dictate quality accessories (i.e. hats) will generally always be revered as essential to classic style.

So HatCo, take heed from the disembodied voice of James Earl Jones, “If you build it, they will come.”