Now Forming! the Campaign Hat Corps

[deanglen]

Any tan, light brown cowboy hat. Avoid 4 inch brims. 3 at most. Ribbon work will probably be required, per pictures above.

dean

 

[RBH]

Posting this for Dean on behalf of Luke.

This from the auction site.

made of black wool and turned up at the outer edge of the brim, then stitched back on to itself. Brass side ventilators. Complete 1.75" wide leather sweat band, inside of hat. Maker's mark inside the dome of hat. Complete with a lemon yellow hat cord and the original silk band at the base of dome. (See Langellier; 2001, p. 95).
On a scale of 1 to 10 this hat is a 9. An outstanding example of this rare hat and seldom encoutered in private hands. This was the successor to the Model 1872 floppy hat that was disdained by the cavalry troops.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2615/campyx3.jpg" border="0" alt="camphat"/></a>

 

[deanglen]

Thanks, R. I saw that in the military hats section where I have been spending most of my more selective on-line time of late. Can't believe how much they wanted for that hat, plus, I've never seen too many M1876 hats before. One I did see posted on the Lounge by a guy who owns it had very different details, different bow, brim was not folded over with two rows, etc. Honestly, ("No, Dean don't be honest, please lie like a rug, won't you?) I know I am not qualified to make this judgement, but I have to admit I am very skeptical about the claim that this is an M1876 hat. It may be vintage of that era, but even if it has Bracher vents, it just looks so different that I would have to see more specimens to compare it to to accept the claim. Plus, where on God's green earth has this hat been stored!? It is in such good condition that 9 out of 10 seems an understatement. Other than that, I have to state once again how much I appreciate the post. Thank you again.

dean

 

[J.T.Marcus]

I hereby humbly submit my application. I hope the following documentation will
suffice.

The cord above is a long bootlace, with a wooden bead. I also have this acorn cord.

 

[007]

Looks good on you, JT.

"If they move, kill 'em!"

 

[slimdigby]

Application for membership

This here is my F40 Conservation Green/Olive Drab - hope it qualifies !
Digby

http://princeinacowboysuit.blogspot.com

PS: I am using a Mac with Firefox. Seems I can not upload pictures. Any suggestions ?

 

[Fatdutchman]

One of my Great Grandfathers (on my mother's side) in WWI. The photo is on card stock, and unfortunately cut down to fit a small oval frame. Printed on the back in small block capital letters is "CORRESPONDENCE".

Fortunately, I get my dashing good looks from my fathers side of the family...

The beret is sure a goofy thing. My father went to OCS in the '60's and had to wear a beret. He said he hated the stupid thing. It was hot and useless as a hat. He was also not wild about the entire Army adopting the black beret a few years ago, and basically taking it away from the Rangers.

It's a pretty dumb hat, especially since you see most of them wearing it almost completely covering one eye...

 

[deanglen]

This here is my F40 Conservation Green/Olive Drab - hope it qualifies !
Digby

http://princeinacowboysuit.blogspot.com

PS: I am using a Mac with Firefox. Seems I can not upload pictures. Any suggestions ?

Welcome to the Corps! Love to see your hat someday. Sorry I can't give you any advice on the mac/firefox picture question. I use Photobucket but that probably doesn't help.





dean

 

[Hugh Beaumont]

I really dont think the Army is Elite right now, only tired. I do think it would be a "symbol of a Soldier" to return the Campaign Hat to the army. I'm not alone since I believe I quoted James Jones on the above. How do you contact the DOA? Get rid of the Beret, give us something unique and American.

I served in the Green Berets back in the mid-80's and it broke my heart when they issued black berets as official headgear for everyone.

I also served as a DI and I loved wearing the campaign hat.

I think you're right. We need to revitalize the Army again. I would like to see the brown, WWII style Class A's come back, and the khaki class-b's.

Chopper pilots in Calvary units still get to wear their distintive cowboy hats.

 

[indycop]

I also served as a DI and I loved wearing the campaign hat.

You weren't a DI at Ft. Benning 1986 were you

I heard rumors my whole 4 years I was in that they were going to give the infantry blue berets, but thatnever happened.

 

[Pat_H]

I served in the Green Berets back in the mid-80's and it broke my heart when they issued black berets as official headgear for everyone.

I also served as a DI and I loved wearing the campaign hat.

I think you're right. We need to revitalize the Army again. I would like to see the brown, WWII style Class A's come back, and the khaki class-b's.

Chopper pilots in Calvary units still get to wear their distintive cowboy hats.

Presently, black Stetson are worn by a lot of troops in cavalry regiments, far more than helicopter troops now. Indeed, they've expanded in useage so that they're almost the norm for a certain sort of occasion in cavalry regiments now days. They remain, however, unofficial. There's no official sanction for them of any kind, even though they are very common in those units (as are spurs for ceremonial occasions).

Those hats aren't actually a military hat, oddly enough. They're supposed to look like the campaign hat of the 1870s-1880s, but they aren't really terribly close to it. Oddly, they're heavily movie and television influenced, as when they came back in during the 1960s, they were an effort by the troops in those units to recall their heritage. At that time, however, the common image those young troops had was the one they'd picked up from movies and television, so their unofficial adoption of Stetsons came about by them copying the look of what they'd seen there, rather than what had actually been worn. Perhaps ironically, actual horse cavalry had disappeared only 20 years later, at which time horse cavalrymen were still wearing M1911 campaign hats. There were still offices in the Army in the Vietnam War who had been horse cavalrymen early in their careers.

Having said all that, I like the black Stetson current cavalrymen wear, although I wish they'd limit the number of pins they put on them. And it's an interesting example of units seeking to make themselves unique.

I don't care for the general use of the black beret either. Indeed, I really dislike the beret in American military use. It's a hat that has no function, as it doesn't even have the brim that a newsboy hat does. It just sits there on your head. I sort of understand why European armies adopted it, as it would have some utility in heavily wooded, fairly damp, regions, but the US Army serves in a lot of areas that don't meet that criteria.

It did make some sense as a distinctive hat for Rangers and Special Forces troops, as that recalled their origin as units that were formed to copy the role of the SAS and SBS. When they allowed those units to use berets, they probably should have copied the colors of the British units to start with, and retained those colors. I used to know what those were, but I no longer do, I'm afraid. Once they allowed the Rangers to go with black berets (after receiving some competition early on from Armor unit, including Armored Cavalry units, stationed in Germany in the 60s and 70s, which wore them unofficially), they should have allowed the Rangers to retain them.

As a complete aside, I'd note that black berets, which received the unofficial armored use noted above, have been associated with armor in various armies, including at least the British, German, and Canadian armies. Apparently whoever thinks up beret colors in the U.S. Army remains ignorant of international use.

If the U.S. Army absolutely had to go with the beret for some weird reason (that reason being, quite frankly, that "everyone" is a special troop of some sort), they should have gone with the khaki (OD type) that the British adopted for general issue in 1939. At least that would have been consistent with some tradition of some sort, and is really a better military color for general issue. Having said that, as is no doubt obvious, I don't like berets for military use at all, and do not think that the U.S. should have adopted them, save for the Special Forces and Rangers.

 

[Pat_H]

You weren't a DI at Ft. Benning 1986 were you

I heard rumors my whole 4 years I was in that they were going to give the infantry blue berets, but thatnever happened.

I never heard that one, but that would have been a bad choice. It is already used in some European armies for various specific types of troops, and its heavily associated in some armed forces with units that have some sort of air role. And its already in use in the USAF by securuity police, who probably would have had a fit. Additionally, the light blue beret is used by troops assigned to UN duty, and there probably would have been both confusion and complaints about that.

As noted immediately above, if the Army absolutely had to go with the beret (which I don't think they should have), they should have simply adopted the OD type khaki beret adopted by the British early in WWII for general issue use. At least that cap is of a military color, and it has some sort of tradition associated with it. Granted, that tradition isn't an American one, but then no beret really has a US tradition. The green berets of the Special Forces, and to a lesser extent the black beret when it was used by the Rangers, had acquired one, of course.

That would have also been consistent with the adoption of the maroon beret by the airborne, which was a British color scheme. I think, although I'm not sure, that the green beret adopted by the Special Forces might have reflected the color of the SBS or SAS at that (although I'm unsure). Black berets, as noted above, have been used by British, Canadian, and German armored units, and the American armored units in Germany in the 60s and 70s did take a run at using it unofficially, but their use overlapped that of the Rangers, and lost out to it.

Unfortunately, campaign hats are impractical in the helmet era, as they're too big to carry. When they were worn in the field, that wasn't a problem. I do wish, however, that there was a way the Army could accommodate the obvious desire for special headgear, without using berets.

As one final aside, it strikes me that most Americans don't really know how to wear a beret. I know that veterans of the English and Canadian armies, which have long worn berets, often state that Americans wear theirs incorrectly, and that we looks somewhat amusing wearing them. They often note that the best type of military beret is a cap called the "Belgique", and that there's some way to treat them before they are worn so they take the proper shape.

 

[carter]

1940's WWII Campaign DI Hat

I picked this up on OFAS today for $41.00. I thought it would go for more. Looks like some extensive moth damage under the brim.

and this was $8.50

Any idea on what I'm going to do with these?

 

[Pat_H]

I picked this up on OFAS today for $41.00. I thought it would go for more. Looks like some extensive moth damage under the brim.

and this was $8.50

Any idea on what I'm going to do with these?

Nice hat, not a DI hat though. DIs did not (I don't think) wear those until after WWII.

During WWII campaign hats were in general issue very early on. They soon became pretty much exclusive to cavalrymen, however, who continued to wear them well in to the war. After the war they were introduced for DIs at some point, but were also worn by rifle and pistol teams for many years.

 

[carter]

Nice hat, not a DI hat though. DIs did not (I don't think) wear those until after WWII.

During WWII campaign hats were in general issue very early on. They soon became pretty much exclusive to cavalrymen, however, who continued to wear them well in to the war. After the war they were introduced for DIs at some point, but were also worn by rifle and pistol teams for many years.

I didn't think any DI's wore these that early either.
It may be a campaign hat or something of later vintage. I've never seen a campaign hat with Captain's bars. When would this have been "normal"? Or is this something the seller cooked up?
Either way, that's not a bad price for the hat in my mind.

 

[deanglen]

and this was $8.50

Any idea on what I'm going to do with these?

Very nice repro or original officer's Indian Wars/Span-Am War hatcord you have there.




dean

 

[Pat_H]

I didn't think any DI's wore these that early either.
It may be a campaign hat or something of later vintage. I've never seen a campaign hat with Captain's bars. When would this have been "normal"? Or is this something the seller cooked up?
Either way, that's not a bad price for the hat in my mind.

The captains bars in that location is improper. Rank insignia were never worn on the hat. Instead, the DI should be on the hat, and it should be placed all the way up at the vent hole.

Who is the maker of the hat?

On the cord, cords were worn on these hats up until the ceased being issued to combat arms units. I can't quite tell what color yours is. Experts on cords can identify their authenticity and age by the acorns, etc. but unfortunately I'm not such an expert.

 

[carter]

The captains bars in that location is improper. Rank insignia were never worn on the hat.

I knew the insignia was wrong but could be removed. I was really interested in the hat.

Instead, the DI should be on the hat, and it should be placed all the way up at the vent hole

.

That's what they did when I was in Basic. (I had orders to report to Ft. Lewis, WA as a DI in 1972 while stationed in Korea. I elected to extend in Korea (UN HQ) and completed my military service there. I was discharged on my birthday in 1973. )

Who is the maker of the hat?

I don't know. Hopefully I can tell when the hat arrives.

As far as the hatcord with acorns is concerned, I know very little except that it is supposedly a gold or burnished gold color. Another wait and see item.

 

[Pat_H]

That's what they did when I was in Basic. (I had orders to report to Ft. Lewis, WA as a DI in 1972 while stationed in Korea. I elected to extend in Korea (UN HQ) and completed my military service there. I was discharged on my birthday in 1973. )

I was probably unclear in use of the term "DI" here. By that, I meant the distinctive insignia, i.e., unit crest. During this time frame, officers and enlisted men wore the unit's crest on their campaign hat.

 

[carter]

I was probably unclear in use of the term "DI" here. By that, I meant the distinctive insignia, i.e., unit crest. During this time frame, officers and enlisted men wore the unit's crest on their campaign hat.

Thanks for clearing that up. What unit crests would be appropriate on this cover? Pictures?