Now Forming! the Campaign Hat Corps

[deanglen]

Wonderful pictures, Grizzly! I find the co-existence of montana peaks and fore and aft crease interesting. Honestly, I wonder if some preferred the straight crown crease and had to be compelled by regulations to switch.



dean

 

[1961MJS]

I don't remember my NCO's ever talking about individualism. I must have been on sick call that day. Thanks, TomS.

Hi

I just finished reading a biography of Al Sieber, one of the scouts that helped settle Arizona. In it, they mention that the scouts and cavalry got rid of their issue hats when they deteriorated past usefulness and bought gray ones from the Indian Agent or Sutler. In Arizona, apparently they had gray hats, not tan during the 1870's and 1880's.

later

 

[liten]

Hi

I just finished reading a biography of Al Sieber, one of the scouts that helped settle Arizona. In it, they mention that the scouts and cavalry got rid of their issue hats when they deteriorated past usefulness and bought gray ones from the Indian Agent or Sutler. In Arizona, apparently they had gray hats, not tan during the 1870's and 1880's.

later

hi cab The drab hat wasnt issued until 83, black was the issue color in that time frame, intresting story though. cheers peter

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Wonderful pictures, Grizzly! I find the co-existence of montana peaks and fore and aft crease interesting. Honestly, I wonder if some preferred the straight crown crease and had to be compelled by regulations to switch.
dean

It's an interesting question, and I sure don't have an answer. I do know that the Naval Services, USMC and USN, were pretty hide-bond in terms of tradition and change. Up until the beginning of WWII, Marines were using older equipment while the Army enjoyed the latest! Could have been just a case of supply and stores still having a lot of the older style - why not use them? That could also vary from ship to ship or command. I have noted that Navy Officers and Navy Corpsman are show wearing the older cover than their Marine counterpart.

 

[1961MJS]

hi cab The drab hat wasn't issued until 83, black was the issue color in that time frame, interesting story though. cheers peter

Right, my reason for posting was that after a while they quit wearing issued hats because they fell apart. I'll see if I can find what year that was.

Later

 

[mayserwegener]

Echter Borsalino, size 5 1/2 Point, probably 1930s. It was sold by Carl Kellner Hamburg. The felt is very thick and stiff which is not usually associated with Borsalinos. I have no idea if this stiffness is a later result of trying to make into a campaign style hat.

J. Hückel´s Söhne, 58cm, probably 1930s or older, it was modified along the way (see below). This is a very stiff heavy weight felt and appears to have been used as campaign style hat. The crown tip patch is missing but the triangle shape is similar to the Carl Kellner Hamburg logo.

Felt spacer strip stitched to the crown about one inch above the brim line was added after paper label. The ribbon was either reattached or replaced.

 

[deanglen]

I like both hats! They have a unique shape in the fedora family.




dean

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Does anyone know when, or why, the hat device (crossed sabers/rifles) went from the side of the hat to the front?

I've seen photos from the civil war with them on the front, then some from the Spanish American war era with them on the side, then back to front. Any idea why? Was it a service branch thing? An individual unit thing?

Came across this tidbit on a SAW site:

In many photos taken of Both Regular and Volunteer troops in Florida you see the insignia worn on the front of the Campaign hat. Then in photos taken once in Cuba, and later PR, the Philippines you see the insignia worn on the side- usually the left. Troops felt that the brass insignia reflected light and made them a more easy to spot target. Thus moving the cap badge to the side. Then in China you see troops wearing the cap badge on the front again.

And then there is this discussion: Span/Am era regulars actually weren't authorized any such insignia on campaign hats though some might have placed the dress (pill box hat) insignia on the hat. Later, and I'm not sure of the exact date, sometime during the use of the M1899 uniform an insignia with just the regimental number over the company letter was authorized for use on campaign hats. Remember that at this time branch was designated by the color of the epilets.

 

[Cattus Petasatus]

Troops felt that the brass insignia reflected light and made them a more easy to spot target.

That would make sense to me. Thank you Sir.

 

[deanglen]

That would make sense to me. Thank you Sir.

And me! Thanks!



dean

 

[deanglen]

dean

 

[mayserwegener]

I like both hats! They have a unique shape in the fedora family.




dean

These hats are very unusual. They were definitely modified and I am guessing it might have been around WWII. I have modified the brim curl but they came to me flat as a board and with montana peaks (not sure what they would be called in German).

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Great pics, Dean. The young soldier seated on the left at the table, looks like he's taking a spelling test! I guess the idea was to show a bit of camp life.

I don't see any pins or badges on any of these guys hats - other than the officer. Hmmmmm... the fellow seated on the right in the first pic, seems to have something, but it's not clear....

 

[Ranger FM]

Campaign Hat Conversion Project to Civilian Style

Hello Gentleman,

New guy here, first post. Great site!

Thought I'd run this by the crew here. Prior to my recent retirement I wore a campaign hat on a daily basis for about 23 years. Th old "flat hat", tan shade, felt fur, Montana peak, about 3 inch brim, complete with triple grommet holes and head strap slots in the brim.

I still.have two, one an old Stetson and the other a fairly new Stratton. I'm ready to convert the Stetson into something more casual to match my lifestyle now that I can wear daily for woods roaming, town visits and social stuff, etc.... Then keep the Stratton original for nostalgia purposes.

My plan is to hopefully end up with something resembling an Akubra Pilbara, you know maybe bush style.

Any thoughts about the practicality of this reshaping?

Thanks in advance.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

PERSONALLY, I'd be more inclined to leave the old Stetson pristine than the Stratton if you wore it longer. I'd also be hesitant to mess much with the Stratton. I picked up an overstock Stratton from Levine's in StL for $25.00 about three years ago. I didn't like the fit, so I gave it away at Scout camp. Stratton's have a lot of plastic and metal in them, grommets for vents and for your badge, and a plastic slot for the chin strap. The grommets aren't exactly casual. In addition, the felt is VERY thick and it's possible (I didn't try) that the Montana peak will be hard to get rid of.

Messing with an Akubra is a pretty easy thing and if you like the Pilbara style, you might as well just get one, they're not THAT much.

This is my Scouting hat, 50% beaver, 6 inch crown, 4 inch brim from Jaxonbilt for $370.00. You can get a Rabbit one for roughly $225.00.

Later

 

[Ranger FM]

Stratton Converted

Hey There 1961,

Thanks for the advice. I decided to keep the Stetson original and convert the Stratton. It now resembles a sort of Akubra/wide brim Fedora and I now feel like it's presentable for social outings as well as woods use.

Also appreciate the information from other site members on steaming and shaping tips.

I'll attach photos as soon as I get a real laptop to replace this Kindle Fire.

Thanks again

 

[Ranger FM]

Oh failed to mention, that's one fine scouting hat there!

 

[TomS]

Great pics, dean

 

[1961MJS]

hi cab The drab hat wasnt issued until 83, black was the issue color in that time frame, intresting story though. cheers peter

Hi

I had to type up the quote: Page 141 of Al Sieber's biography:

"By that time they were quite a sight, Corbusier admitted, especially the Indians. "Black, stiff-brimmed hats had been issued and ordered worn," he recalled. "They no longer protected the heads of the wearers. The brims were completely or nearly gone, and the tops were full of holes, or absent, so that the men's hair stood out. Soft gray hats replaced them, and were the forerunners of the present campaign hat." But the Apaches had learned to like the black, high crowned, stiff-brimmed hat, and to this day it is a favorite item of clothing among the men, although without the holes through which their forebears hair protruded in 1874.'

This is, at least in part, why I'm getting a Silver Mist hat to make into a John Wayne / Ford Cavalry hat.

Later Y'all

 

[liten]

Hi

I had to type up the quote: Page 141 of Al Sieber's biography:

"By that time they were quite a sight, Corbusier admitted, especially the Indians. "Black, stiff-brimmed hats had been issued and ordered worn," he recalled. "They no longer protected the heads of the wearers. The brims were completely or nearly gone, and the tops were full of holes, or absent, so that the men's hair stood out. Soft gray hats replaced them, and were the forerunners of the present campaign hat." But the Apaches had learned to like the black, high crowned, stiff-brimmed hat, and to this day it is a favorite item of clothing among the men, although without the holes through which their forebears hair protruded in 1874.'

This is, at least in part, why I'm getting a Silver Mist hat to make into a John Wayne / Ford Cavalry hat.

Later Y'all

Sounds like the officers refering to the 1872 issue hat, commonly refered as the andrews hat, they were made of cheap inferior material and only lasted a short time ,out in the feild. they were not a popular hat.