Not to be political but.THIS IS WRONG

[V.C. Brunswick]

There's really nothing new under the sun.

 

[Michaelshane]

Patriotism,capitalism=good
Flag abuse,misuse=bad

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[tonyb]

Bingo. There's few things I find more offensive than driving by a car lot with a ridiculously gigantic flag flopping around in front of it. Of course, you could also say that sleazy marketing of dubious products thru oversaturated so-called "patriotism" is as American as apple pie. Especially in election years.

Yeah, just what is the deal with the HUGE flags at car dealerships? I don't know that my distaste for such things is quite so visceral as some of our brothers' and sisters' responses to flag desecration, but I gotta acknowledge that it troubles me on some primal level. Or at least it did. I've gradually become more inclined to laugh at such transparently self-serving appeals to patriotism.

Car collectors fetishize cars. Hat aficionados (I've met a few) fetishize hats. And people all over the world, untold millions of them (billions, maybe), fetishize flags. Indeed, I can think of no other objects, excepting certain religious symbols, that are so likely to attain such a revered status as those rectangular pieces of cloth.

Sacred objects are attended by sacred and often arcane rituals. At what point does a flag -- which is to be handled according to code -- become merely an image of a flag? Or a "flag-themed" whatever? Consider that flag-themed pair of undershorts that appears earlier in this thread. Is it a flag? No? What if the shorts have all 13 stripes and all 50 stars on a blue field? Still not a flag? What if you cut up a flag and sew the pieces into a pair of undershorts? If there's a distinction to be made, I'd posit that we have yet to see an actual flag in this thread. What we have seen are images of flags.

 

[gtdean48]

To retire a flag properly is a very solemn & respectful ceremony. When the field of stars is taken & each stripe is individually separated & burned, a US Flag is properly disposed.
The ashes are properly discarded & the metal grommets are gathered to be given to a worthy custodian.
I have no issue with flag-themed articles of clothing but taking a flag & cutting it up to make a garment is no proper, especially one that has been flown in the manner intended....

 

[sheeplady]

I have to admit, I find the ad distasteful for several reasons:
1. You are not supposed to use the U.S.A. flag for clothing. You can print the image of the flag on clothing, but using an actual flag is distasteful to me.
2. The flag is touching the ground. Again, not supposed to happen.
3. It looks like they dumped tea all over it.

Now, if it was a "fake" flag (created to look like a flag but not actually the flag- perhaps the wrong number of stripes or stars or not regulation size ratio) I wouldn't have a problem with it *because it isn't the actual flag.*

I find it extremely distasteful when I see flags being flown in the rain or at night without a light on them. My great-cousin and her disabled husband (he was in a wheelchair) flew a flag when I was young and they took it down when it rained and every night. If a man in a wheelchair can make it the odd 200 feet to take down a flag in a downpour, you can damned well go get it off your porch when night comes or stick a solar light in the ground to shine on it. I also don't like it when political candidates pass out flags mishandling them or put them on doorstops and let them get wet.

For the record, I don't support making flag burning illegal. Burning of the flag (I believe) is supposed to be done only in times of great distress. There are political times in which someone could reasonably see their country in such distress that they burn a flag as a signal of that great distress and sadness. I do think it's distasteful to burn a flag of any country as some sort of celebration like you often see happen on TV to the U.S.A. flag, no matter what the country has done. If you must burn the flags of your enemy, don't go running through the streets waving them above your head, and chanting "die, country, die" while they go up in flames. Build a bonfire, toss them in, say good riddance, and be done with it.

 

[Michaelshane]

A flag is flown upside down in times of distress.

 

[sheeplady]

A flag is flown upside down in times of distress.

I am quite well aware of this fact... it does not change my opinion, which I made quite clear was my opinion by stating "I believe."

 

[vitanola]

well at least it still remains a flag,a simple of what america is, this country is run by liberal fools who change and disrespect the nation itself, no morality, no absolutes , everything for free and given to those who have earned Nothing, i think there is more worse things this country is doing wrong at the hands of the so called leaders,

Read Roosevelt's speech at Ossawatamie.


As has been pointed out, "last refuge" and all that...

I for one find the advertisement to be in excreable taste, but there is no penalty for that in this great land of ours, more's the pity.

That said, I am awfully wary of setting up any man-made thing as an idol. It appears to me that some come pretty close to doing at with our flag.

 

[vitanola]

That's the most un-American way of thinking imaginable.

Sinclair Lewis was right!

 

[tonyb]

To retire a flag properly is a very solemn & respectful ceremony. When the field of stars is taken & each stripe is individually separated & burned, a US Flag is properly disposed.
The ashes are properly discarded & the metal grommets are gathered to be given to a worthy custodian.
I have no issue with flag-themed articles of clothing but taking a flag & cutting it up to make a garment is no proper, especially one that has been flown in the manner intended....

What would be the proper way to retire that little paper flag on one end of the toothpick holding together my Super Bird (TM) sandwich at Denny's on the July 4 weekend? If one suggests that that's not really a flag, well, okay, I can understand how one's thinking would head in that direction. That little toothpick flag is more a toy than a real flag, a person might suggest. But then the question becomes what the criteria for authentic flagdom might be. Is it the material? Or the size?

Most flags I see these days -- flags made to fly from front porches and roadside utility poles -- are printed on cheap synthetic fabric. To dispose of such a flag in the manner suggested above wouldn't be impossible, but it would require a steady hand on the scissors to neatly separate the white stripes from the red, and really, who's gonna do that? And I imagine those synthetics smell nasty when set alight.

It does nothing to diminish the hold the flag has on people to acknowledge that its power is entirely symbolic. That being the case, though, I can see no appreciable difference between a "real" flag and, say, a little paper flag on the end of a toothpick at Denny's, or the flag decal on a car window, or a pair of flag-themed undershorts.

 

[vitanola]

Good for you,Tom.It seems that many here don't remember how many soldiers have come home with the flag draped over their casket......all so others have the right to protest.That folks isn't political!

Ever read anything by Marine Corps General Smedley Butler?

 

[pawineguy]

Thanks Tom for starting this thread and I am in total agreement with you. The fact that Stetson was discontinuing its use tells me that you were not the only one who reached out to them.

My strongest memory of the symbolism that our flag has for us in the U.S. took place on 9/11. I was running a large retail wine shop in CT at the time, and had just purchased my first home. I was done that day at 4 PM, and my first thought upon leaving work was that I didn't own a flag to fly. I wanted to put one up immediately upon coming home, so I stopped at our local independent hardware store. There were four or five people in line in front of me waiting to pay for flags and I was able to purchase the final one they had in stock. There was no call for people to go buy flags and fly them, but it was the first thought of many. Maybe it's just different here in the U.S., perhaps because our anthem is tied to the vision of our flag during a battle many many years ago, or that we all grew up with the story of Betsy Ross.

I do know that I still own that flag, I cherish it, and I fly it respectfully on holidays and whenever else the mood strikes me.

 

[Michaelshane]

Sheep lady,Im not arguing with you.You don't have to get snippy.

 

[LuvMyMan]

I don't like what Stetson did to this US Flag for this advertisement AT ALL....
A shawl or wrap out of fabric that is colored like a flag or has flags is one thing.
But this Flag looks to have served proudly & deserves more respect than being a wrap...

WTF? Someone must have had one too many shots of cheap wine, to have approved THAT for an advertisement. That is OUR FLAG! The Flag that men and woman have fought and died for! That picture is as bad as someone burning our flag! Totally a disrespectful display. Stetson should remove and publish and apology! Bad choice and rotten taste for them to have done that. They may have just as well had that woman be squatting to "pee"......it is that bad to me. I hope Matt D. will take a peek at this thread and make some calls. If this is all Stetson can think of our Flag, I for one will NEVER buy anything ever again with their name on it, including vintage.

You FLY a flag, with honor and the respect it deserves. You treat it with love and care, as it represents the United States of America and all the good our Nation has for us all, for our FREEDOM! Not to use as a wrap for some fashion statements for THIS use. They want to use a flag, FLY it and have someone stand with it next to them or in the background but not to use it like it is a "wrap" for someone to cuddle up in it.

I am glad gtdean48 took the time to bring this to our attention. You read in the paper all the time about how some person has their flag out on the house flying it with pride and some smuck complains and the next thing you know someone is being forced to take down their flag. I have relatives that died fighting under that flag, my Father went to war under that flag, as did my Husband. Lets hope Stetson will correct this and seriously FLY that flag proudly and not use it like a sweater.

 

[LuvMyMan]

I would say that I don't find the photo itself, nor the use of the flag in the image to be offensive. As shown in this thread, the image not only evokes strong emotions, but has opened a discussion about who we are as a nation and how we as individuals feel about that. Listening to others opinions is what makes a democracy work and so discussions on these matters are important.

If the image only said "Remember", or nothing at all, perhaps the feelings would be a little different. I could easily draw a story line that would be fitting in my mind. Something to the affect of a woman who has lost a love one to battle, who sits along the East River looking toward the place where Twin Towers once stood. While saddened by loss, she is comforted by wrapping herself in a flag that perhaps has more personal meaning than we the viewer understand. This would be a powerful image to me and would personally remind me the history and struggles of our nation.

I found the additional three images of the baby, Bon Jovi and the woman in the field to be thought provoking in that same way.

I do agree as an advertisement the Stetson image misses the point, but they are not alone in that distinction. I find all of the advertisements that arrive near Memorial Day, Veterans Day and the Fourth of July to be equally as tasteless. I am not sure why saving 20% on a big screen TV, no money down on a new SUV or even a sale on chicken breasts at the supermarket have anything to do with remembering the nation I choose to live in and its history. It is not the soiling of a flag that is offensive to me. It is the idea that things like "Free shipping on all orders" is an acceptable way to memorializes men and women who have who have lost their lives.

I respect all of your opinions on this matter and don't mean to heat the kettle any more. So I hope you will view my addition to the discussion as a positive.

Well now, I will have to say the soiling of our flag should raise the hair up on any American's neck! I am not going to pick on you, please think of this one thought that should be on everyone's mind lately. Our very lifestyle is under attack by issues each and every day, issues that are as anti-American as Adolph Hitler. Unless you pay no attention to the news and what is going on all over the USA, you all know EXACTLY what I mean! This is not a time for us as American's to be "willy dilly" about our Freedom or the love that we should all share towards this Nation we FREELY live in. That very Freedom allows you to voice your opinions the same as mine of anyone's here. You may not see things as I do, but you have to admit, Freedom can be slowly chipped away at from so many angles as it is an ongoing ordeal right here and now in the USA. You can have your opinions as I do mine. I take a great "stake" in being FREE and that Flag is just that, FREEDOM. Just as many Americans, I would DIE even right this very moment to defend that Flag! Most people I know feel the same as I do.

 

[Stearmen]

One thing we did lose with the standardization of the flag, was the beautiful Grand Luminary flags of the Civil War!

 

[LuvMyMan]

What would be the proper way to retire that little paper flag on one end of the toothpick holding together my Super Bird (TM) sandwich at Denny's on the July 4 weekend? If one suggests that that's not really a flag, well, okay, I can understand how one's thinking would head in that direction. That little toothpick flag is more a toy than a real flag, a person might suggest. But then the question becomes what the criteria for authentic flagdom might be. Is it the material? Or the size?

Most flags I see these days -- flags made to fly from front porches and roadside utility poles -- are printed on cheap synthetic fabric. To dispose of such a flag in the manner suggested above wouldn't be impossible, but it would require a steady hand on the scissors to neatly separate the white stripes from the red, and really, who's gonna do that? And I imagine those synthetics smell nasty when set alight.

It does nothing to diminish the hold the flag has on people to acknowledge that its power is entirely symbolic. That being the case, though, I can see no appreciable difference between a "real" flag and, say, a little paper flag on the end of a toothpick at Denny's, or the flag decal on a car window, or a pair of flag-themed undershorts.

The Flag in the picture was meant to be on a Flag Pole, (we have no way to know it it was ever on one), but for me those other Flags are novelty items, toys as you state. I have no answers for those cheap skate Flags, but I have an answer for a Flag that is made to be on a Flag Pole. For me you love that Flag like Family...(yeah the good members of your Family), and then you love it a few million times more than just that. Where would any of us be, without our Freedom, and lets never forget the price for it! I am sure you could have the same love for even those toy flags, but it is not hard to view what a Flag is, and what purpose it has.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That said, I am awfully wary of setting up any man-made thing as an idol. It appears to me that some come pretty close to doing at with our flag.

Check and double check. Respecting the flag for what it represents is one thing. Worshiping it in and of itself is quite another.