Not impressed with barons hatshop

[Jeff M]

But where have any of you had a solid shop experience? That's what my whole post was about in the end. I wasn't impressed with Baron's actual physical shop. So, I'm curious where some of you guys have had a good experience. How is Optimo in person? .....

I've been to Optimo in person, and it was a great experience.
I had exchanged emails with them (TIffany) for about a month prior to my trip to Chicago, ordering a hat.
Based on my height/weight/head size, Tiffani recommended that I go with one set of specifications. I wanted to go with another, but ended up asking her to hold off on making the hat till I could visit and see what they had on hand.

The shop is a bit outside of Chicago in the South Side..about a 30 minute Taxi ride from downtown.

The shop is in a low/middle income business district, looks like it was either recently built or converted. Very very nice shop. Very "gentelmanly" feel to to it.

Tiffani was wonderful to work with. It turns out that Optimo went ahead and made a hat to the specs I was thinking of anyway...and after trying on another hat with the specs that she had recommended to begin with, I agreed with her initial recommendation. I received the new hat about a week later.

Lots of different styles and colors. Top notch hats. First class service from pleasant people.
I have nothing but good things to say about Optimo.

The only thing I have any complaint about is the cost of the taxi from downtown Chicago.
When I commented on how far the trip was from the hotel and the resultant taxi fare, Tiffani said she would have recommended taking the commuter train to the stop in their area where Optimo would have sent a car to pick me up.

First class operation.

 

[Le Samouraï]

Answering your questions - warning - long winded again

I’m not refuting someone who said they had a bad experience at Baron’s. I’m only saying that my experience, and lots of other people here in England where I live, and in my own network of hat lovers, have had nothing but great experience with Baron’s, and their hats. Who ever wrote to say this is a site where you can do more than just praise hatters, I totally agree. And if you feel bad about someone or some place, this is absolutely the place to complain or comment. There is probably no other site around that has such a plethora of experts on hats than here. My point, which I feel strongly about, is to totally condemn a long-standing shop with a great rep, for one detail, is unfair. And some others, make negative statements, and to their credit, then admit that they really have never had experience with a shop or the product. I mean, to me that’s just not right. Someone keeps saying that all their sweatbands are “glued”. I now have five custom Baron’s, plus two he fixed for me, and they are all stitched, in excellent real leather, plus a beautiful silk satin lining, with a clear protector to keep the logo and top of the lining clean. The quality of their fur felts (I have two Beaver and three fur felts), are superb, and the over-all workmanship is on par with other hatters I’ve seen or worked with. They do sell a few “off brands” in their shop, which do not have the Baron logo on the sweatband, and are clearly labeled as to who made them (economy hat company’s like Golden Gate). Those are usually glued, but they wouldn’t be a Baron’s. And it's reflected in the price. Some are as inexpensive as $35 (and as indicated on the label made of "Toyo" in China).

I spend most of my time at my home in England, and as you know there’s a huge tradition here for high quality hats, and my father was in a peripheral business, and taught me a great deal about the quality of hats, suits, and shoes. And as I said, I’m fussy to a fault when it comes to custom workmanship, especially in hats. So when I praise someone or their product it’s a big deal, since, like the man who puts salt on his food before tasting it, I tend to condemn custom hats (and suits and shoes), even before I really look at them, believing they just must be bad. Then I look for some flaw to help my theory along. But in Baron’s case, they have always passed my hyper scrupulous inspection.

I’m getting verbose again, so I’ll try to keep this short (if possible). But a few other things I would like to say. One is a lot of people are rightfully going on about the great legendary hat shop Worth and Worth. A magnificent store with a long tradition. They mostly have Fedora's, as you know. I have one. It's a marvel! It would be interesting for you then to call the owner, I believe his name is Orlando (I’ve been in his New York shop several times), and ask him about Baron’s. The reason I mention that he has told me that he has such respect for Baron’s that they are talking about adding a Baron’s “satellite” store right in his shop there on, I think 47th Street. He has told me he has known Mark Mejia (Master Hatter at Baron’s) for years, and whenever he’s in Los Angeles, he goes there, and uses the shop for his own projects, and has Mark make hats for him as well. Again, do some footwork, and call Worth and Worth and ask them what they think of Baron's, their rep, their quality, whatever you feel is important. Then report back here with a post. One other quick thing… on the same idea, I remember a huge thread on another site, that isn’t anywhere as classy as this, and people were going insane about this issue of the last Jones Fedora. They were saying that Baron’s said they made the Fedora. They never did say that. The article they kept quoting (which I looked up), never said they made it, they only talked about the cap they made for the sidekick kid on the motorcycle. In fact, they did, with the supervision of the costumer, a Mr. Pollack (I forgot his first name but you can look it up easily enough) reblock the Fedora hats which were originally made by a hatter in the deep south of the States. Baron’s never claimed to have made the hat, they only stated, truthful, when asked that they worked the completed hats it right before production, per the request of this Mr. Pollack. I really did deep digging on this, since I got all kinds of “flames” (I think that’s what you call it) for talking about the hats, since the first time I was in Baron’s shop, this costume designer was in there, and Mark was closing the shop to take the time to work on the hats which were needed for shooting post haste. Everyone was on a time crush. Again, I’m sure there’s a way of contacting Mr. Pollack. Don’t take my word for it. Ask him if he did work with Baron's to reblock the hats right before production.

Finally, I did get a grand laugh at someone who bashed Baron’s because Kid Rock (I’m sorry, I’m not sure who Kid Rock is) was wearing an American Flag in a photo. As if that’s Baron’s fault! I’m sure Baron’s was asked to make this hat, and Kid Rock made the selection of the hat, and what he wears on his body. So why is that Baron’s fault? He didn't dress this gentleman, or make the American Flag shirt! There just seems to be a strong desire to bash for bashing sake. I mean, George Lopez, among others, has his hats made at Baron’s. I spoke with him as I mentioned before. So because he’s a celebrity, that suddenly makes him inferior, and he knows nothing about hats? It’s like whatever anyone says positive, someone wants to spin it negative. And I don’t understand it. Point of my very long winded response, just accepting anything anyone says (including me) as face value, and then from that creating an opinion is not fair or right. As a long-winded hat lover, don't take my word for it either. Do some footwork. Call Baron's and talk to Mark yourself. Grill him. Ask him questions. See if he’s “full of it”, as you like to say, or knows his stuff. And if you’re in LA, visit the shop. Talk to him face to face. Have him give you a tour. Most of you know a great deal about hats, and what it takes to make them, so see if he’s for real.

As for someone who had a good suggestion that I send photos, I would be glad to take photos of some of my hats, if that’s what you’re talking about. However, I’m lucky to be able to write and post without blowing up my computer, so I would appreciate it if someone can tell me how to post photos on this site, and what they would like to see, and I’ll do my best to post photos, so you can see for yourself. My digital camera can even take close-ups, so if you’d like to see, for example the stitching of the hatband, I’ll do my best to post it for you. I think that’s fair. I hope you do to. I’m honored to be a part of this lounge and I hope you realize this is just a discussion, and I do not in any way mean to disparage any of you, your honor or your motives.
PS: I just noticed that in the "Posting Rules" it says I can not post attachments. If someone knows how I can change that, or wants me to send the photos to their e-mail for them to post, I'd be happy to do so.

 

[Mr E Train]

I’m getting verbose again, so I’ll try to keep this short (if possible).

Apparently it wasn't possible.

 

[Lefty]

Who ever wrote to say this is a site where you can do more than just praise hatters, I totally agree.

That post was deleted.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I’m not refuting someone who said they had a bad experience at Baron’s. I’m only saying that my experience, and lots of other people here in England where I live, and in my own network of hat lovers, have had nothing but great experience with Baron’s

When compared to English hatters, yes Baron does make hats on par or better than what you find from some UK hatters.

 

[johnnycanuck]

Watch out Matt, with your last statement people will start to think your Scottish. lol

 

[Matt Deckard]

Just going by what I have from Lock and Herbert Johnson. They also glue in their liners. Used to be pretty heavy duty bodies they'd use for their dress hats out there.

 

[handlebar bart]

Someone keeps saying that all their sweatbands are “glued”. They mentioned glued in liners, not sweat bands
One other quick thing… on the same idea, I remember a huge thread on another site, that isn’t anywhere as classy as this, and people were going insane about this issue of the last Jones Fedora. They were saying that Baron’s said they made the Fedora. They never did say that. The article they kept quoting (which I looked up), never said they made it, they only talked about the cap they made for the sidekick kid on the motorcycle. In fact, they did, with the supervision of the costumer, a Mr. Pollack (I forgot his first name but you can look it up easily enough) reblock the Fedora hats which were originally made by a hatter in the deep south of the States. Baron’s never claimed to have made the hat, they only stated, truthful, when asked that they worked the completed hats it right before production, per the request of this Mr. Pollack. Alot of us have seen the video where Mark uses the same shady deceptive wording that he uses on his site, check out the wording he uses for the hat Depp wore in the Dilinger flick
Finally, I did get a grand laugh at someone who bashed Baron’s because Kid Rock (I’m sorry, I’m not sure who Kid Rock is) was wearing an American Flag in a photo. As if that’s Baron’s fault! I’m sure Baron’s was asked to make this hat, and Kid Rock made the selection of the hat, and what he wears on his body. So why is that Baron’s fault? He didn't dress this gentleman, or make the American Flag shirt! There just seems to be a strong desire to bash for bashing sake. I mean, George Lopez, among others, has his hats made at Baron’s. I spoke with him as I mentioned before. So because he’s a celebrity, that suddenly makes him inferior, and he knows nothing about hats? It’s like whatever anyone says positive Noone was blaming Barons for the poncho, but again he didn't make the hat for Kid Rock just imitated it. You were even tricked by his deceptive language

I cut out the fluff

 

[jlee562]

...and people were going insane about this issue of the last Jones Fedora. They were saying that Baron’s said they made the Fedora. They never did say that. The article they kept quoting (which I looked up), never said they made it, they only talked about the cap they made for the sidekick kid on the motorcycle. In fact, they did, with the supervision of the costumer, a Mr. Pollack (I forgot his first name but you can look it up easily enough) reblock the Fedora hats which were originally made by a hatter in the deep south of the States. Baron’s never claimed to have made the hat, they only stated, truthful, when asked that they worked the completed hats it right before production, per the request of this Mr. Pollack.

The Parade article doesn't explicitly state it, but it would be hard for someone who didn't know any better to come to that conclusion. Apparently there was some video where Mark did make a claim, but I've never seen it.

In any event, this, coupled with their wording on the Depp/Dillinger hat makes me weary of their advertising practices. It seems to me as if they were content to let other people make the connection with the last Indy film.

And for the record they did NOT re-block any of the hats. Steve Delk (said "Deep South" hatter, of Adventurebilt Hats) has talked about this on Club Obi Wan. Bernie Pollack (who is Harrison's costume guy) took the hats to Baron's because some of the creases hat popped out during shipping. So Baron's re-shaped the creases (to Bernie's specifications) before production began.

For the record, Steve doesn't knock Mark or Baron's and has actually said that he believes they do good work.

I'm saying that the language on their site is deceptive, and that someone could very easily mistake them for being something that they are not (ie: the makers of the Indy IV hat or the Dillinger hat)

 

[Tango Yankee]

Finally, I did get a grand laugh at someone who bashed Baron’s because Kid Rock (I’m sorry, I’m not sure who Kid Rock is) was wearing an American Flag in a photo. As if that’s Baron’s fault!

Well, you got the grand laugh for the wrong reason. I was commenting on Kid Rock's desecrating the American flag in an attempt to show his patriotism. I'm a liberal guy, but I take offense when someone does something like that to the flag. Oh, and I'm not particularly sure who he is either other then the name pops up from time to time.

I did say I wasn't impressed by the hat, but that was a mild observation and not a bash. I've never been to Barons and I don't really have an opinion on them either way. I will say though that based upon what people whose opinions I've grown to respect over the past few years, I doubt I ever will make the effort when I'm out there visiting family.

One thing is certain: no matter how much you go on about how great you think Baron's is, you're not going to change the minds of the people here who have had multiple bad experiences with that shop. I think everyone should just agree to disagree and let it go at that.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Lando]

I'm glad that Optimo has a good shop. I'll have to stop in there when I'm in the area, though I have no idea when that will happen lol.

It would be interesting to see whether Worth and Worth really are going to have a satellite Baron's shop or if it's just some one blowing smoke. I may give them a call and ask them about that as it seems like a very strange thing to do.

I know that the idea I have of a shop experience is probably nonexistent anymore. It's just not financially feasible in this market. When I was in college there was this great cigar bar I use to go to. They had a bar that sold coffee and other little things, and there were fine wooden tables and leather upholstered chairs. This was all attached to a huge room that was essentially a giant humidor and where they sold cigars of all kind. I spent a lot of time there with friends and it remains as a place of fondness in my memory. The owners just couldn't keep it going. The experience they were offering just wasn't bringing in enough revenue, and so, they closed the bar, and got rid of the wooden tables and chairs, and it became just another place to buy cigars.

When I think of hat shops, or tailors, or cigar shops: I'm thinking about that cigar bar I spent some of the best years of my life in. I don't necessarily think that is out there anymore, but I do hope it is. If I found a place that could meet that sense of the romantic and make good hats, hell, I'd be their lifelong customer.

Thanks for the discussion guys. I've always learned so much from this place.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Baron's does cary Worth and Worth hats. Last experience I had with them was their Traviso model. I still have it. The felt broke down pretty quickly with the elements and the sweatband they used was pretty stiff and dried out quickly. Looked good out of the box but the felt just didn't take much before there was a hole in the crown and a drooping brim.

 

[Jeff M]

I'm glad that Optimo has a good shop. I'll have to stop in there when I'm in the area, though I have no idea when that will happen lol.

It would be interesting to see whether Worth and Worth really are going to have a satellite Baron's shop or if it's just some one blowing smoke. I may give them a call and ask them about that as it seems like a very strange thing to do.

I know that the idea I have of a shop experience is probably nonexistent anymore. It's just not financially feasible in this market. When I was in college there was this great cigar bar I use to go to. They had a bar that sold coffee and other little things, and there were fine wooden tables and leather upholstered chairs. This was all attached to a huge room that was essentially a giant humidor and where they sold cigars of all kind. I spent a lot of time there with friends and it remains as a place of fondness in my memory. The owners just couldn't keep it going. The experience they were offering just wasn't bringing in enough revenue, and so, they closed the bar, and got rid of the wooden tables and chairs, and it became just another place to buy cigars.

When I think of hat shops, or tailors, or cigar shops: I'm thinking about that cigar bar I spent some of the best years of my life in. I don't necessarily think that is out there anymore, but I do hope it is. If I found a place that could meet that sense of the romantic and make good hats, hell, I'd be their lifelong customer.

Thanks for the discussion guys. I've always learned so much from this place.

Do try to make it to Optimo.
They sound just like what you are looking for.
Some time back BobC posted these photos of his trip to Optimo. (Half way down the page, post #215)
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=31871&page=11&highlight=Tiffani

Here is an article about the shop;
http://allplaidout.com/2009/07/factory-visit-optimo-hats/

And a video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93HWkdY8pk
Even better in person.

 

[Tomasso]

The shop is a bit outside of Chicago in the South Side.

Actually, it's in the Beverly neighborhood of Chicago, still in the city limits. Solid middle class with loads of homes designed by Walter Burley Griffin.

The only thing I have any complaint about is the cost of the taxi from downtown Chicago.

Ouch! What that cost you, $70-80 round trip from the Loop?

When I commented on how far the trip was from the hotel and the resultant taxi fare, Tiffani said she would have recommended taking the commuter train to the stop in their area where Optimo would have sent a car to pick me up.

Nice of them to offer but the train station (Metra Rock Island) is only a short walk from the shop, maybe five or six blocks.

 

[Jeff M]

Actually, it's in the Beverly neighborhood of Chicago, still in the city limits. Solid middle class with loads of homes designed by Walter Burley Griffin.

Ouch! What that cost you, $70-80 round trip from the Loop?


Nice of them to offer but the train station (Metra Rock Island) is only a short walk from the shop, maybe five or six blocks.

Yep. About 80$ round trip.
I'd take them up on their offer of ride for 5 or 6 blocks in an unknown area.

 

[Jeff M]

The Parade article doesn't explicitly state it, but it would be hard for someone who didn't know any better to come to that conclusion. ..

Actually, the article does state that Baron Hat's "created Ford's specially aged "Cliffhanger" fedora."

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Like I said before. Their advertising is shady at best. Which makes me not want to buy from them to begin with.

 

[warmentrout]

I've heard much of the same; that they're fairly overpriced, and um... slightly misleading in their sales claims. Not to bash, just what I've heard through the grapevine.

I like your avatar . I know The Pres, who is the flautist ?

 

[warmentrout]

But where have any of you had a solid shop experience? That's what my whole post was about in the end. I wasn't impressed with Baron's actual physical shop. So, I'm curious where some of you guys have had a good experience. How is Optimo in person? Has anyone else had a good run in at Worth and Worth, when they were open lol? I visited the Village Hat Shop in Long Beach when I was out there, and the girl behind the counter didn't know s*** but she tried real hard to be helpful and accommodating. So, where have you been that you felt the shop did right by you?

I've been in Optimo. Granted it was a Sat morning and I was there to see the door unlocked. Graham was not there but the young lady who was there was very nice and showed me everything I wanted to see even though I said I was just looking. I would do business with them based on my single expirience. If you travel often Optimo is very easy to get to from Midway airport.

 

[Lefty]

I've got pics of Optimo in this thread, and there are images of many other hat shops as well.