New U.S. Air Force uniform protoypes

[Harp]

Ribbons

I remember when the "fruitsalad" started with a Bronze Star awarded
for valor or a Purple Heart, topped by the Combat Infantryman Badge,
or Combat Medic Badge, jump wings pinned below a single row.

 

[Mojave Jack]

I hate the business suit we have now.

Yeah, they are way too hot. Polyester just doesn't breather. Plus they fit like a potato sack. I always feel cheesy in my Service Dress, like I can't afford a real uniform.

NewMex, I do not know of anyone that liked much of McPeak's changes. At least some of things he did were changed. They brought back the service cap a few years ago. I went out and grabbed one since no one else seems to wear one. It kind of goes against the rule about not standing out, but I like it anyway.

I wear mine all the time, too. When I first started wearing it, I was constantly stopped and told that they were no longer authorized. I eventually carried a copy of the reg in the hat so I could show people that didn't believe me!

Jack, the Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal is the reserve equivalent of the Air Force Good Conduct Medal, which I hear they are doing away with.

Ah! So that explains why I was suddenly given three! Someone must have done an audit and seen that I had never be awarded any of them, so they gave me all three at once! lol And here I thought nobody noticed what a great job I've been doing!

I just hit the 20 year mark and sometimes get embarrassed by the number of decorations on my uniform. Most are meaningless which seems to cheapen the ones actually earned for doing something above and beyond. Heck, I picked up five from my rotations to the desert over the past few years.

Congrats on hitting 20! Isn't that a relief to get that letter?! That's like money in the bank. I just hit 22 years, so everything from June '04 on is gravy. And how about all the patches on the BDUs?! Nothing like spending $30 to get all the patches put on a new set!

 

[Willi_Goat]

Yeah, they are way too hot. Polyester just doesn't breather. Plus they fit like a potato sack. I always feel cheesy in my Service Dress, like I can't afford a real uniform.

Yep, when I get mine to fit the shoulders it hangs off of my torso almost enough to put someone else in there. When using the blousing belt it has so much material folded under it is unreal. We are allowed to tailor the Honor Guard uniform, but that does not help my regular service dress.

I wear mine all the time, too. When I first started wearing it, I was constantly stopped and told that they were no longer authorized. I eventually carried a copy of the reg in the hat so I could show people that didn't believe me!

I never had anyone question my wearing it enough to have to resort to that, but there were plenty that said it had been done any with and when I told them it was brought back they wanted to know why I would spend that kind of money on one. In my squardon at least they know I am somewhat eccentric so at least they are used to it.

Ah! So that explains why I was suddenly given three! Someone must have done an audit and seen that I had never be awarded any of them, so they gave me all three at once! lol And here I thought nobody noticed what a great job I've been doing!

Every so often they get it right. I had someone in the MPF take a device off of on of my decs since they could not figure out why I had it. It was awarded about ten years ago, so I am having to do the leg work to find the information. Of course they purge records every so often so they would not have that in there any longer.

Congrats on hitting 20! Isn't that a relief to get that letter?! That's like money in the bank. I just hit 22 years, so everything from June '04 on is gravy. And how about all the patches on the BDUs?! Nothing like spending $30 to get all the patches put on a new set!

Thanks. I have nine patches on mine right now and cannot remember what it cost me last time. I used to have my daily wear BDUs with the pockets left open, but now I am just having it sewn shut and keeping my pen behind the flap that covers the buttons and anything else I may carry in the lower pockets.

 

[Trotsky]

I find this new uniform interesting for a few reasons.

First and foremost: During the War (WWII, of course) a buttoned collar in the British Army was the sign of an enlisted bloke. In fact the convertable collar was a innovation pioneered by the US Army in 1937. It was thought to be smarter and more modern. This new AF uniform seems like a leap backward. I was in AFROTC (Rotc-nazi represent!) around the time of the "airline" pilot switch, we all hated those. My detachment had a large stock of older pattern which were still in use for a bit, nobody wanted to turn the 4 pockets in, this was around 1995.

Second: Comfort wise, these will be hell, as pointed out above. Nobody will want to wear them, I am betting.
These just seem like a leap back to me.

 

[Mojave Jack]

Second: Comfort wise, these will be hell, as pointed out above. Nobody will want to wear them, I am betting.
These just seem like a leap back to me.

I agree. The Hap Arnold is a much more practical choice. Give the troops a uniform that is sharp and comfortable, and they will wear it with pride.

I think part of the reason that the McPeak uniform is universally hated, though, is that the material is cheap, as well as the awful cut. If they make either of these versions in that same cheap polyester material, no one will want to wear it, either. For dress uniforms, the Air Force should take a page from the Marine Corps' manual: maintain a quality, sharp uniform, stress the tradition and personal appearance of the uniform, and the troops will wear it accordingly. I spent less than 1/4 of my military career in the Marine Corps, but I still miss those uniforms.

 

[Air Boss]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but doesn't the Army have a current dress blue uniform? My father, a retired officer, still has his.

Yes, we have a Dress Blue uniform and the new dress uniform will eliminate the ugly green one and go to a blue uniform. Sadly, they didn't do much with the style - now it's ugly blue rather than ugly green.

I like the look of the new USAF dress uniform.

 

[Baggers]

I'm going to preface this by stating that I haven't served in the military (JROTC in the very early 70s doesn't count), but I have followed the changes in the various service uniforms as closely as possible for a civilian with an intense interest in militaria.

I'm not all that crazy about the Army adopting the dress blues as a Class A uniform. I know the Army has history with blue, but from about 1900 onwards until the 50s when they changed to the "pickle suit" in order to get away from a wartime look, they've always worn an OD brown or dark khaki uniform, which in my opinion is more approriate for a ground fighting force. I think the blue service uniform is going to cause confusion with either the Air Force or Marines. I guess I just have an affection for the the old "brown shoe" Army, but I think it's a bad idea. The Army should wear brown, the Navy should wear, well, navy blue, and the Air Force should wear a slightly lighter shade of blue. I love the Hap Arnold look with the waist belt and four pockets. And if they'll get away from those peak lapels, it'll be as sharp as a tack. And ditch the polyester. A wool or wool blend would be great.

And the Army never should have adopted the overly sculpted black berets for everyone. Let the traditionally elite formations (Airborne, SF and Rangers) keep theirs, but the rest of the Army needs to go back to service and garrison caps.

This is just my opinion, and we all know what those can be compared to.

Cheers!

 

[Harp]

Uniformity

Way back when; many moons ago, I pulled a tour as an advisor with the Greek Army, which issued its men woolen battle dress ('Ike jackets),
khakis, and combat boots. A sensible basic uniform issue that included
field jacket and fatigues. Why the US Armed Forces continually need to experiment with Class A issue and fatigues, create and award foolish
meaningless badges/decorations, or rip the black beret from Ranger
battalions to give a black beret-morale boost Army-wide is beyond
my personal experience and present understanding. The proliferation
of idiotic "fruitsalad" (covered by this thread) seems all the more ridiculous given our Iraq commitment. I recently heard a radio news clip that
the US Army now accepts forty-two year old recruits.... [huh]

 

[McPeppers]

All I have to say is I love mandarin collars. But well...just to be fair...yall wear yours and I'll wear mine. Fair? hehe

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

Honestly, I like the look of a military uniform with no tie. I dunno, the necktie seems too civillian to me. In a military design I believe the mardarian collar is far more appropriate.

 

[Mike K.]

The Air Force updated the old AAF winged-star insignia awhile back. Any chance it will go back on the left sleeve of the new uniforms?

By the way, I like the look of both uniforms but I have to agree with those who say the stand-up collar is rather uncomfortable.

 

[tallyho]

The current Dress Blue uniform dates from the 1859 regulations and came from... the French Army along with the trefoil and the kepi (prior to that little spat with Prussia in the early 1870's, France was well martially respected). QUOTE]

The quatrefoil on the top of Marine covers is representative of the crosses that were placed on top of marines covers when they were defending ships in the tall ship days. The crosses were to help sharpshooters high up in the masts and riggings identify fellow Marines.

Incidently, the red stripe down the leg on corporals and up represents the Halls of Montezuma when a high percentage of NCOs were casualties in that historic fight.

 

[tallyho]

fruit salad and other pieces of flair

Maybe I am biased being a former Marine, but I think that the other services have way too much "flair" on their uniforms. I like the way the Marine Corps still keeps things very simple. Unlike the other services, they didnt even have name tags until they were forced to use them by the standardization that started in the 90s. i remeber getting the Army BDUs inplace of the the ones we had. All the cargo pockets were sewn down for "smarter" look! Someone decided that since the army was wearing the BDUs out about in the public (something forbidinned in the Corps in my days), they should be made so that the army doggies didnt have to iron them. Brilliant! Lets take a combat uniform make the pockets that were added for combat and make them useless because some guys dont want to iron! I loved the day the Marine Corps got their own utilites again, complete with tiny EGAs in the camo pattern. Semper Fi!

 

[Desk Jockey]

The current Dress Blue uniform dates from the 1859 regulations and came from... the French Army along with the trefoil and the kepi (prior to that little spat with Prussia in the early 1870's, France was well martially respected).

The quatrefoil on the top of Marine covers is representative of the crosses that were placed on top of marines covers when they were defending ships in the tall ship days. The crosses were to help sharpshooters high up in the masts and riggings identify fellow Marines.

Incidently, the red stripe down the leg on corporals and up represents the Halls of Montezuma when a high percentage of NCOs were casualties in that historic fight.

Well, when you redefine history, everything can have a special significance.

Like I wrote before, when adopted, the trefoil was simply a decoration. It was there because officers in Napoleon III's Chassuers had them, too. Additionally, it was adopted in 1859... right before the age of sail was about to gloriously burn to death at Hampton Roads.

As with the blood stripe, Marines have been wearing one since 1796, a full half century before the US invaded Mexico and 14 years before Mexico was even Mexico. Trouser stripes came about because of the necessity to cover and protect the leg seam, and after a while were used for ceremonial purposes.

Here's a link: Marine Corps League

 

[fortworthgal]

I realize I am late to this thread, and I've never served in the military, although I have many friends and family members who have in the past and currently. I do not care for the Billy Mitchell style uniforms. The mandarin collar isn't at all flattering - especially on the female. I cannot imagine it would be comfortable, either. I do however, like the Hap Arnold style. The women's version looks nearly identical to the WWII WASP uniform. I've heard through the grapevine that most don't care for the proposed uniforms, though. I agree that the poly blend material they are using now is atrocious, and looks cheap.

As long as USAF moves away from the "I'm a pilot for Braniff" look, I'll be happy. The Marine Corps and USN have generally stuck with tradition in their uniforms. Heck, I've even heard rumors that the Army is considering a return to pinks and greens, which would be wonderful. USAF uniforms need a major change.

 

[tallyho]

Well, when you redefine history, everything can have a special significance.

Like I wrote before, when adopted, the trefoil was simply a decoration. It was there because officers in Napoleon III's Chassuers had them, too. Additionally, it was adopted in 1859... right before the age of sail was about to gloriously burn to death at Hampton Roads.

As with the blood stripe, Marines have been wearing one since 1796, a full half century before the US invaded Mexico and 14 years before Mexico was even Mexico. Trouser stripes came about because of the necessity to cover and protect the leg seam, and after a while were used for ceremonial purposes.

Here's a link: Marine Corps League

Well it certainly seems as though there is some conflicting info about some of the Marine Corps uniform signifigance. I checked out the afore mentioned link and did a yahoo search and found almost identical wording on a couple of other sites as if it were just cut and pasted from one site to the other.

This is from the Marine Corps Univerty's site

HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF MARINE CORPS UNIFORM ITEMS:



a. Marine Corps Emblem: The emblem consists of an eagle clenching the Marine Corps motto in its beak, the globe (Western Hemisphere), and the anchor. The emblem was adopted by Brigadier Jacob Zeilin in 1868 to depict the Marines as both American and maritime.



(1) The globe and anchor signify the worldwide service and sea traditions.



(2) The spread eagle represents the nation itself.



(3) The motto, "Semper Fidelis" is Latin for "Always Faithful."



b. Scarlet Trouser Stripe: Officers and noncommissioned officers have intermittently worn scarlet stripes on dress trousers ever since the early days of the Marine Corps. The initial uniform trouser issued after the reconstitution of the Marine Corps, in 1798, had scarlet piping. However, the scarlet stripes have come to commemorate the high casualty rate amongst Marine NCO's and officers during the battle for Chapultepec.



c. Quatrefoil: The quatrefoil (cross-shaped braid atop officers frame-type "barracks" covers) has been worn ever since 1859. The design, of French origin, is a distinguishing part of the Marine Officer's uniform. Popular belief tells us that in the mid 1800s, crossed pieces of rope were sewn to the top of officer's covers so that sharpshooters in the ship's riggings could readily identify them.



d. Officer's Sword: (Mameluke Sword). The sword carried by officers of the Marine Corps has a history that is nearly as old as the Marine Corps itself. Its design is unique in the American services. Today, it stands as the single weapon of the longest use in American arms. Officially prescribed 1862, this sword has a distinctive Mameluke hilt that was first introduced by Marine officers stationed aboard ships of the Mediterranean Squadron during the Barbary Wars, 1801- 1807. The sword of the Mamelukes had a curved scimitar blade and a uniquely shaped handle that is now especially identified with the U. S. Marines.



e. NCO Sword: Noncommissioned officers of the Marine Corps are the only NCO's in any branch of the regular United States Armed Forces who still have the privilege of carrying swords, which is basically a commissioned officer's weapon. The sword is the personification of military traditions and leadership and has been entrusted to those most responsible for maintaining it. The Marine NCO sword is the oldest U. S. weapon in continuous use. Although the Mameluke Sword has been around longer, there was a short period at the beginning of the Civil War when the Mameluke Sword was replaced with the forerunner of our current NCO sword. While its use is now limited by regulation to ceremonial occasions, the sword still represents "esprit de corps" and "leadership."

http://www.cpp.usmc.mil/schools/corporals/SH/0107.htm

 

[raiderrescuer]

On the Ribbon thing...

I was in the Air Force then the Coast Guard and in the Coast Guard I wasn't allowed to wear some of my Air Force Ribbons. So it tells me the military wasn't concerned about deeds done concerning the ribbons.

Also, the Ribbon thing is strictly political thing...when I was at Balikesir AFB; I had gotten the Command Technical Sergeant mad at me (Long story - but I was asking to have an investigation done involving gear he had “misplaced”.) and was one of two people out of 110 that did not get any Award even though I had promoted to Staff Sergeant there.
2 people who got dishonorable discharges for stealing government property even got the Award, turned out they were his buddies.
On top of that the whole Base was also suppose to get a Multi-National/Multi-Service Award but in the end the Commanding Officer got demoted and we all lost out.
Then when I was getting out of the Air Force I was "eligible" for a good conduct award but was told to my face I would not be put in for it because I was getting out. The excuse was they wouldn't have had time to process it before my honorable discharge.
I ran into a similar problem in the Coast Guard...a retiring Warrant Officer was suppose to write an award for me...ordered by the Base Command Officer and my Supervisor and the Warrant's Chief but none the less and he blew it off & I never got anything.

 

[Nashoba]

Matt,

Well, I have to say that from what I've seen the Marine Corps is still pretty darn stingy about awarding ribbons. I did notice at our last Marine Corps Ball that there were a lot of young enlisted Marines walking around with more medals and ribbons that you would expect, but I think in large part this reflects the increase in operational tempo over the last few years. You might have a young Marine deploying to a combat zone two or three times in just one hitch.

Case in point: I can recall being at the exchange on Camp Lejeune in early November 2004 (right around Birthday Ball time.) I overhead the cashier tell the young Marine ahead of me in line that they had run out of Purple Heart medals. I think in the few years prior to that, a conversation like that would have been unheard of.

Jessica

I agree, I've noticed that more at the Ball too. My husband, who's been in the Corps 12 years has nearly doubled his awards in that last 3 years because of current operations. But you're right the Corps is still pretty stingy about awards. And sometimes down right strange. My husband has been nominated for a NAM several times and they keep downgrading it to a Cert Comm. Then again there was a cook in one of his units who got a NAM for being a cook and doing his job. Needless to say that annoyed him.
Nashoba

 

[deanglen]

I wish the US Army went back to this for a dress uniform. How more American and traditional, and unuiquely US Army can you get?

dean

 

[Matt Deckard]