New Tuxedo

[DocMustang]

Just purchased a new Tux. The jacket and trousers are from Jos A. Banks. After years of writing their buyers with links to the black tie guide they have finally made a peak lapel jacket available in their separates line. I really wanted to go with a waistcoat as I find cumberbund's visually boring, and they deny me the ability to wear my great-great grandfather's pocket watch and an antique fob (also a family heirloom) from 1910.

Looking at the photos, I can see I need to have my tailor shorten the sleeves (again) Does any one else fight with their tailor on sleeve length? I cannot seem to get them to understand that I WANT my cuffs to show. Long suit cuffs make a perfectly good suit look like pajamas.

Have no fear bow-tie purists, the tie in the photo is temporary, when I actually go out I have a self tie that I wear instead.

 

[Edward]

Nice watch chain. Any better shots of the waistcoat?

 

[DocMustang]

The waiscoat is currently at the tailors having functional pockets put in so I cannot take any better photos.
I bought it from Chilbert & Co. Their catalog states that it has functional pockets, but apparently the manufacturer stopped putting functional pockets in with the most recent shipment. Ray, the president of Chilbert & Co. was unaware of this change until I called him about it. They have been great to work with and have excellent customer service.

The fabric of the waistcoat is a perfect match for the rest of my tux, although the satin is slightly off (not so much that anyone but me would notice) it is otherwise a perfect match. There is only one size but I found that it covered well and I could adjust the height to match the gore of my dinner jacket.

Having the pockets put in only cost $15 for a total cost of $60. Considering that my next option was having a waistcoat made bespoke from a second set of tuxedo trousers, I think I still made out on the deal. "Proper" tuxedo waiscoats in black are nearly impossible to find.

Thread about the pocket watch and Fob:
Thread about pocket watch and Fob

I think I will have to find a way to shorten the "drop" of the Fob looks a little low to me in the photo.

 

[avedwards]

Looks like a good and very classic ensemble. That's a lucky find on the waistcoat because hardly anywhere makes them anymore. Nice pocket watch too.

The sleeves definitely need shortening though. It appears to be a current trend for American suits to have sleeves which end at the knuckles rather than the wrist for some reason (not that us Brits are any better). If your tailor tells you they should be that way you definitely need a new tailor (the moment any tailor or dry cleaner knows less about suits than you do they are not to be trusted).

You may also consider getting a shirt which has fewer studs visible. Purists would probably argue that no more than one or two should be showing, though I think three is also acceptable. Four could be considered a bit much though.

And don't forget to finish it all off with a pocket square.

 

[DocMustang]

Looks like a good and very classic ensemble. That's a lucky find on the waistcoat because hardly anywhere makes them anymore. Nice pocket watch too.

The sleeves definitely need shortening though. It appears to be a current trend for American suits to have sleeves which end at the knuckles rather than the wrist for some reason (not that us Brits are any better). If your tailor tells you they should be that way you definitely need a new tailor (the moment any tailor or dry cleaner knows less about suits than you do they are not to be trusted).

You may also consider getting a shirt which has fewer studs visible. Purists would probably argue that no more than one or two should be showing, though I think three is also acceptable. Four could be considered a bit much though.

And don't forget to finish it all off with a pocket square.

Now that you mention it, the number of studs is a bit much. The shirt is the Jos A. Banks Signature series, I bought it originally to go with my Mess dress uniform (which requires 4 studs visible). I will definately be taking my tux to a better tailor to have the sleaves shortened and to have the flaps removed from the pockets. (the original tailor was reluctant to do so, and after MUCH negotiation agreed to tuck the flaps in and sew the pockets closed.)

As to a pocket square I would not be opposed to a white monogrammed pocket handkerchief neatly folded into the pocket. Although I generally prefer a blue "forget-me-not", red remembrance poppy or sprig of Acacia (or in combination) in the lapel.

 

[avedwards]

Now that you mention it, the number of studs is a bit much. The shirt is the Jos A. Banks Signature series, I bought it originally to go with my Mess dress uniform (which requires 4 studs visible). I will definately be taking my tux to a better tailor to have the sleaves shortened and to have the flaps removed from the pockets. (the original tailor was reluctant to do so, and after MUCH negotiation agreed to tuck the flaps in and sew the pockets closed.)

As to a pocket square I would not be opposed to a white monogrammed pocket handkerchief neatly folded into the pocket. Although I generally prefer a blue "forget-me-not", red remembrance poppy or sprig of Acacia (or in combination) in the lapel.

I don't see why your tailor would be so reluctant to remove the pocket flaps. They do not belong on a dinner jacket and are only appropriate on a suit, and even then my preference is for no pocket flaps. Tucking them in and sewing the pockets closed doesn't sound like a good solution to me because it means you can no longer use the pockets and I personally find the pockets on a dinner jacket very useful given that the shirt does not have a pocket.

A white monogrammed hankerchief sounds perfect, though make sure the monogram is not visible when it's folded. You could wear a flower as well as a pocket square in my opinion, even though some people may disagree with me there. To my knowledge the rememberance poppy is only appropriate at certain times of the year though - from the end of October until the 11th November over here (though I'm not sure whether that's the case is in the US), and then as a sign of respect for veterans rather than as a decorative accessory.

 

[DocMustang]

I don't see why your tailor would be so reluctant to remove the pocket flaps. They do not belong on a dinner jacket and are only appropriate on a suit, and even then my preference is for no pocket flaps. Tucking them in and sewing the pockets closed doesn't sound like a good solution to me because it means you can no longer use the pockets and I personally find the pockets on a dinner jacket very useful given that the shirt does not have a pocket.

A white monogrammed hankerchief sounds perfect, though make sure the monogram is not visible when it's folded. You could wear a flower as well as a pocket square in my opinion, even though some people may disagree with me there. To my knowledge the rememberance poppy is only appropriate at certain times of the year though - from the end of October until the 11th November over here (though I'm not sure whether that's the case is in the US), and then as a sign of respect for veterans rather than as a decorative accessory.

I think the tailor was reluctant to remove them due to concerns over the technical difficulty (another reason to find a proper tailor) and not asthetics. At least they were happy to close the vent for me. (A vented dinner jacket? Honestly!)

 

[DocMustang]

Allright, I am taking suggestions. Anyone have any suggestions for a turn down collar, 100% cotton (or other natural fiber that is not silk), pleated dress shirt?

 

[Edward]

Good move on the waistcoat; they certainly are not easy to find. Regarding the shirt, the best soft, pleat-front I've seen is:

http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/s...shirt-with-classic-turndown-collar-sh233.html

I got quite a nice one from Marks and Spencer a while back too. You'll struggle to find fewer than four studs on a soft front shirt, though... It's a functional thing, IMO: a soft front will gape terribly if it does not have sufficient fastenings. The other alternative (apart form a boiled front) would be a fly-fronted shirt with a covered placket:

www.clermontdirect.com's offerings are nice. You have to be careful as their stuff can be very modern, but pick the right pieces and their stuff is very affordable but respectable quality.

 

[Tomasso]

it's a functional thing, imo: A soft front will gape terribly if it does not have sufficient fastenings.

qft

 

[DocMustang]

I think I will simply have to raise the waistcoat a bit to cover the lowermost stud. I should still have some leeway as the trousers have a relatively high rise.
Ok, here is another question. Where should the collar points lie with respect to the waistcoat? Currently they seem to sneak over the edge of the lapels. It seems to me that they should stay within the bounds of the waistcoat. I may have to sew a small loop behind the collar of my shirt to hold the top strap of the waistcoat down and spread the lapels of the waistcoat a bit.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Good move on the waistcoat; they certainly are not easy to find. Regarding the shirt, the best soft, pleat-front I've seen is:

http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/s...shirt-with-classic-turndown-collar-sh233.html

I got quite a nice one from Marks and Spencer a while back too. You'll struggle to find fewer than four studs on a soft front shirt, though... It's a functional thing, IMO: a soft front will gape terribly if it does not have sufficient fastenings. The other alternative (apart form a boiled front) would be a fly-fronted shirt with a covered placket:

www.clermontdirect.com's offerings are nice. You have to be careful as their stuff can be very modern, but pick the right pieces and their stuff is very affordable but respectable quality.

Also, never buy a shirt with an attached wing collar. Wing collars should only be starched stiff detachable ones.

As for pleated shirts, go for ones which wide pleats than very narrow ones as it looks better.

http://shop.edeandravenscroft.co.uk/products/white-pleat-front-dress-shirt

 

[Shangas]

Hi DMustang,

Very very sharp. I agree, though. The watch-chain is too long. If it's dingling on the level of your dangler, it's too long.

Perhaps try a Double Albert chain with fob-drop instead?

 

[Hap Hapablap]

The waiscoat is currently at the tailors having functional pockets put in so I cannot take any better photos.
I bought it from Chilbert & Co. Their catalog states that it has functional pockets, but apparently the manufacturer stopped putting functional pockets in with the most recent shipment. Ray, the president of Chilbert & Co. was unaware of this change until I called him about it. They have been great to work with and have excellent customer service.

The fabric of the waistcoat is a perfect match for the rest of my tux, although the satin is slightly off (not so much that anyone but me would notice) it is otherwise a perfect match. There is only one size but I found that it covered well and I could adjust the height to match the gore of my dinner jacket.

Having the pockets put in only cost $15 for a total cost of $60. Considering that my next option was having a waistcoat made bespoke from a second set of tuxedo trousers, I think I still made out on the deal. "Proper" tuxedo waiscoats in black are nearly impossible to find.

Thread about the pocket watch and Fob:
Thread about pocket watch and Fob

I think I will have to find a way to shorten the "drop" of the Fob looks a little low to me in the photo.

Does anyone know the history of – or have an explanation as to why and when – the black tie waistcoat simply became a black equivalent of the white tie version? I find it odd. The traditional U-shaped black waistcoat is beautiful. I assume it is because most people don't wear boiled fronts, and the V shows less shirt. Just another great piece of antiquity lost to the ages.

 

[DocMustang]

Not sure about the history of it but I do have a source for the traditional "U" shaped gore with straight bottom. Mr. U
This manufacturer has allowed this model to be cursed by those two modern wardrobe witches "Poly" and "Ester". However, they do offer another model in black silk satin. I am sure that they would make that model in that fabric as well. They may also be able to make one from a fabric matching your tux. That can be difficult to find though. I have considered buying an extra set of trousers to canabalize for that purpose.

 

[Warden]

I also bought my shirt from Darcy Clothing.

I went for the Marcella front evening shirt

http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/shirts/marcella-front-collarless-evening-shirt-sh230.html
Is this when I find out I have been a fashion mistake which will make Jeeves despair.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I also bought my shirt from Darcy Clothing.

I went for the Marcella front evening shirt

http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/shirts/marcella-front-collarless-evening-shirt-sh230.html
Is this when I find out I have been a fashion mistake which will make Jeeves despair.

That is fine.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Does anyone know the history of – or have an explanation as to why and when – the black tie waistcoat simply became a black equivalent of the white tie version? I find it odd. The traditional U-shaped black waistcoat is beautiful. I assume it is because most people don't wear boiled fronts, and the V shows less shirt. Just another great piece of antiquity lost to the ages.

TBH, I think it is a cost cutting measure. Having both white and black tie waistcoats cut in the boring SB shawl lapel with square ends and 3 buttons saves on the expense of new patterns and is less work to do. The hire wear companies and RTW white marcella waistcoats in this same pattern has, IMHO, done this to death that it is slowly because the Ascot tie and wing collar of the evening dress world. But at least this pattern for black tie it is rare so I guess that is more acceptable. I always advise that the waistcoat should be focused on more as you want something distinct and elegant rather than one churned out from a cakemold on an assembly line...

 

[DocMustang]

Wore the tux in public for the first time last night, felt great to have my own instead of the former rental piece I bought when I was in med school. From your feedback I improved the look with a white Irish Linen pocket square folded in a classic square fold. I used the same watch chain but had my tailor place a hidden button hole between the second and third buttons on the button side of the waistcoat. This had the effect of shortening the "drop" of the fob. Unfortunately I did not have time to take the jacket in to have the sleeves altered. I will be doing that this afternoon.