New Star Trek

[farnham54]

I didn't mind the Star Wars SE's, except for parts where it fundamentally changed the characters or, to a lesser extent, became distracting.

Greedo shooting first. (Han is a BAD GUY. He's a SCOUNDREL. He woulda shot first!)
Han stepping on Jabba's Tail (please--the effect was TERRIBLE, and CHILDISH!)

The new Trek's seem to be redone for asthetics, but it doesn't change the fundamentals nor is it distracting. The shots were already there, now they just look better.

Cheers
Craig

 

[MrBern]

AND. Lucas had to be badgered into releasing the original theatrical versions on DVD.

Thank goodness theres nothing in Raiders to remaster!
Well maybe all those crazy lightnign bolts at the end.

 

[carebear]

I didn't mind the Star Wars SE's, except for parts where it fundamentally changed the characters or, to a lesser extent, became distracting.

Greedo shooting first. (Han is a BAD GUY. He's a SCOUNDREL. He woulda shot first!)

Cheers
Craig

You're right, Han shooting first in the moral system Lucas was using, old "Hollywood Western" morality, would have made him a "bad guy". Which Lucas tried to fix, since Han was a "hero". he forgot what you pointed out, that Han at first was more an amoral actor (or wanted to be), a scoundrel, out for only himself.

You can tell Lucas was trying to be consistent within his own system since, in real life, under current (and longstanding) self-defense law (which I assume would be similar both "a long time ago" AND "far, far away") it is not necessary for your attacker to "shoot first" in order for your use of force to be justifiable. If you have a reasonable belief (say, because he's a known armed killer who is threatening to kidnap you, remember Greedo was not working for any government, to bring you, dead or alive, to a known murderous criminal mastermind (Jabba)) that the bad guy is about to shoot you, you can legally, ethically and morally fire first.

Which thus wouldn't make Han a bad guy for doing so.

But Lucas got stupid with his anti-violence cleanups there for a bit. (see ET)

 

[jake_fink]

But Lucas got stupid with his anti-violence cleanups there for a bit. (see ET)

What did Lucas have to do with ET?

 

[carebear]

Okay, I guess that was Spielberg. I have the two more or less co-located in my mind.

I'd love to see that parody.

 

[MrBern]

Okay, I guess that was Spielberg. I have the two more or less co-located in my mind.

I'd love to see that parody.

Well Saving PrivateRyan & Band of Brothers certainly had their grizzly moments. Not gratuitous, jsut powerful.
I think the whole walkietalkie thing in ET was to reflect that it was supposed to be a fantasy for kids.

 

[MrBern]

chekov

Okay, I've been a loyal Star Trek fan since Day One - I watched from the very first broadcast 40(!) years ago - but I simply cannot get behind this CGIing of the effects shots at all.

.

Doctor Strange, since your a longtime trek fan, what do you think of this return of Chekov in a fanfilm? I really liek the CGI of the KlingonBattlecruiser pursueing the shuttlecraft.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0vhLyGHA2BY

 

[carebear]

Well Saving PrivateRyan & Band of Brothers certainly had their grizzly moments. Not gratuitous, jsut powerful.
I think the whole walkietalkie thing in ET was to reflect that it was supposed to be a fantasy for kids.

Went to youtube, watched the South Park parody. It was no more ridiculous than what Lucas-berg really did.

 

[Doh!]

Well Saving PrivateRyan & Band of Brothers certainly had their grizzly moments. Not gratuitous, jsut powerful.
I think the whole walkietalkie thing in ET was to reflect that it was supposed to be a fantasy for kids.

Here's why I admire Spielberg MUCH more than Lucas: When the more kid-friendly version of ET was released onto DVD, Spielberg included the unaltered, '80s cut in the same package! Purists still had the opportunity to own the original even though Spielberg's "vision" had changed.

Conversely, it took YEARS of fans begging Lucas to finally do the same thing with Original Trilogy of Star Wars. He can keep his "Special" Editions, thank you very much.

 

[Benny Holiday]

You're right, Han shooting first in the moral system Lucas was using, old "Hollywood Western" morality, would have made him a "bad guy". Which Lucas tried to fix, since Han was a "hero". he forgot what you pointed out, that Han at first was more an amoral actor (or wanted to be), a scoundrel, out for only himself.

You can tell Lucas was trying to be consistent within his own system since, in real life, under current (and longstanding) self-defense law (which I assume would be similar both "a long time ago" AND "far, far away") it is not necessary for your attacker to "shoot first" in order for your use of force to be justifiable. If you have a reasonable belief (say, because he's a known armed killer who is threatening to kidnap you, remember Greedo was not working for any government, to bring you, dead or alive, to a known murderous criminal mastermind (Jabba)) that the bad guy is about to shoot you, you can legally, ethically and morally fire first.

Which thus wouldn't make Han a bad guy for doing so.

But Lucas got stupid with his anti-violence cleanups there for a bit. (see ET)

Absolutely! I can understand that Lucas would have gotten excited when the developments in CGI technology reached Jurassic Parklevel, and that he wanted to go back and achieve his original vision; but I wish he'd stuck to the cool Dewback lizard riders and Mos Eisley in 3D and left the cantina creatures and Solo/Greedo gunfight alone.

 

[Feraud]

I find it truly annoying how Lucas & Spielberg went back to fiddle with Star Wars and E.T.
I wonder what historical art work would be like today if Rembrandt, Monet, or Picasso went back and said, "I am a better artist today and this is how I meant to paint it."
:eusa_doh:

I intend to own the original Star Wars Trilogy and that is all. Lucas can keep his multiple special editions.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Mr. Bern - The Chekov fan film looks okay, for what it is. The CGI is... CGI. I guess at this point I'm just beyond getting worked up about any of it...

And I wasn't bashing the CGIing of TOS, per se, just explaining why I - as one of the aboriginal fans - personally have zero interest in watching it. (For the record, the only versions of the Star Wars films I own, or feel I need, are the pre-Special Edition VHS tapes. While I'm vaguely tempted to get the new releases to have the "originals" on DVD, I really can't justify throwing any more money at Lucas!)

CGI just leaves me cold - give me a *model* anyday! The highlight of my last trip to DC:

 

[jake_fink]

I wonder what historical art work would be like today if Rembrandt, Monet, or Picasso went back and said, "I am a better artist today and this is how I meant to paint it."
:eusa_doh:
QUOTE]

Some artists did go back and repaint their work, either in different versions or right over top of a piece that didn't please them. Some of the Impressionists and early Modernists were so strapped for cash they had to reuse canvases just because they couldn't buy new material. Worse than that is the "restoration" of artworks by people who are not the artists themselves or members of the artists' studio or even members of the same culture. Much of what we look at when we see the Byzantine altar pieces in Italy, for example, was "restored" after Duccio and Giotto changed the way we see, some of it completely repainted in the 19thC. (Think of that colourization fad of the 80s. *shudder*)

So messing with works of art has a long tradition behind it.

But so does imprisonment without trial, execution, torture, child labour, wifde beating, stoning, and keggers at frats. Tradition doesn't necessarily =

 

[jake_fink]

Also, comparing the skimpily talented George Lucas to any of the artists mentioned above gives me the yowling heebie-jeebies. I've never liked the Star Wars movies and see them as a marketing acheivment above anything else.

I know millions of people love these movies, but the last time I checked McDonalds was still selling burgers. There's no accounting for taste.

 

[Feraud]

So messing with works of art has a long tradition behind it.

But so does imprisonment without trial, execution, torture, child labour, wifde beating, stoning, and keggers at frats. Tradition doesn't necessarily =

lol Good points.

Also, comparing the skimpily talented George Lucas to any of the artists mentioned above gives me the yowling heebie-jeebies. I've never liked the Star Wars movies and see them as a marketing acheivment above anything else.

Sorry to give you the yowling heebie-jeebies! I too get 'em every time Lucas announces another version of SW he has in the works.
For the record I do not put Lucas on the level of those artists mentioned earlier!

 

[jake_fink]

lol Good points.


Sorry to give you the yowling heebie-jeebies! I too get 'em every time Lucas announces another version of SW he has in the works.
For the record I do not put Lucas on the level of those artists mentioned earlier!

Oh, I knew that.

 

[MrBern]

I do like that in the final credits, when showing scenes of other episodes, we still see of the better stills of the Enterprise model, not the CGI.
And I like that they did go to th Smithsonian to get the measurements right.
Nice pic of you & E !

Mr. Bern - The Chekov fan film looks okay, for what it is. The CGI is... CGI. I guess at this point I'm just beyond getting worked up about any of it...

And I wasn't bashing the CGIing of TOS, per se, just explaining why I - as one of the aboriginal fans - personally have zero interest in watching it. (For the record, the only versions of the Star Wars films I own, or feel I need, are the pre-Special Edition VHS tapes. While I'm vaguely tempted to get the new releases to have the "originals" on DVD, I really can't justify throwing any more money at Lucas!)

CGI just leaves me cold - give me a *model* anyday! The highlight of my last trip to DC:

 

[MrBern]

Incidentally, has there been anything more of the rumour of NataliePortman playing Indiana jones' daughter?

 

[Atomic Glee]

Was that Lucas or Spielberg's call?

Anyone see that cartoon parody? SavingPrivateRyan's NormandyBeach sequence redone w/o guns, just walkietalkies. I think it was on FAMILYGUY.

It was South Park. The boys had gone to see a re-release of "The Empire Strikes Back," and one of the trailers before it was for a special edition re-release of "Saving Private Ryan." The word "Nazi" had been replaced with "Persons with Political Differences," and all the guns had been changed to walkie-talkies.

Then, the movie started - but it was the "Re-re-re-release" of ESB, where the word "Wookiee" had been replaced with "Hair-Challenged Animal," and the entire cast had been digitally replaced with Ewoks.

 

[MrBern]

Ewoks...why did it have to be ewoks....