New Member Needs Help

[BluesSinger212]

First, I wanted to say "Hi" and Thanks for having me at the forum. I have learned from the members at COW, that you come for the gear and stay for the people. I hope to learn something new here, and for starters, I need your help in trying to find out what kind of feds Frank Sinatra used to wear. I should know this, the Sinatra-fanatic that I am, but I must confess that I do not know. What I do know is that he did have a lot of fedoras in his closet, but stopped wearing them shortly after the Rat Pack era. What were the options in the late 40's through the early 60's to purchase fedoras? I know there are cheap "fedoras" out there called "The Sinatra" and such, but they're not even close to what "the Chairman" would wear. If anyone can help me out that would be great. Once again, thanks for the welcome and for any advice/input.

---Ken

 

[Brad Bowers]

Welcome to the Lounge, Ken, from one Sinatra fan to another!

I've been curious about this, too. I know he's almost become synonymous with the stingy brim hats, but people tend to forget that he wore wider-brimmed hats, at least up to the mid-Fifties. From the photos and films I've seen, I can only guess at what brand(s) he wore. I would guess it would be the high-end hats from Stetson, Dobbs, Knox, Borsalino, and the like.

Jamespowers might have some hat ads, if Sinatra advertised at all.

Brad

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Welcome pardner, from one harp man to another. I got a Blues Harp C in my shirt pocket right now. I play mostly Folk and Country, a little Blues and alot of old Gospel Hymns.

 

[ScottFree]

Hi BS212, I have what was called the Sinatra fedora in the day. Its from 1945, I believe. It is called a Grey Diamond. This is a tall crown hat with a 2 1/2 -2 5/8 Inch brim. It is original and the only one that is not in its original box. My brother's size was 7 3/8 but this hat is 7 1/4 and while my brother got hats when I did from our relatives, he never wore any. This one has been wore supposedly by Sinatra himself. I have no proof of this or any reason to disbelieve it. My father was an avid hat collector. He gained this one from some where in Las Vegas. It has a wide but unique band around it maybe 2 inches or wider. Its like a pleated band or wrapped not typical hat ribbon. The hat band in it simply has Grey Diamond On the one side and Custom Made on the other. The liner is stamped with a simple text logo that says Custom Hatters.

Cheers

Scott

 

[jamespowers]

Welcome to the Lounge, Ken, from one Sinatra fan to another!

I've been curious about this, too. I know he's almost become synonymous with the stingy brim hats, but people tend to forget that he wore wider-brimmed hats, at least up to the mid-Fifties. From the photos and films I've seen, I can only guess at what brand(s) he wore. I would guess it would be the high-end hats from Stetson, Dobbs, Knox, Borsalino, and the like.

Jamespowers might have some hat ads, if Sinatra advertised at all.

I found it strange that with all the ads I have there was never a Sinatra hat ad. I guess I am not alone. If the hat Scott mentioned is any barometer of Sinatra's taste, it is likely he had his hats custom made for him. This would make it hard to advertise a popular brand name when you won't even wear the hat.
That hat size sounds right for Sinatra. The custom hatter seems to ring a bell as well. I don't remember all the details though. I do know they were not cheap hats.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BluesSinger212]

Sinatra rarely advertised at all, or should I say endorsed. A few here and there, but he really didn't like doing endorsements.

Scott, I think I know what hat your talking about. Is it more of a straw-typ-ish or is it felt? I'm going to try and find a pic of one of the two hats I think it is here.

FYI: Keep in mind that he stopped wearing hats after the Rat Pack era, I think roughly around 1967-68.

---Ken

 

[BluesSinger212]

or




---Ken

 

[Wild Root]

Welcome friend! Always nice to see a new face here.

I like Frank's work mostly from the early years, 1938 to 1946. I love his work with Tommy Dorsey and also Harry James. He sure knew how to make the girls go CRAZY!

As to the hat he wore in the later (Pre Rat Pack) years, I wouldn't know the brand, but his hats seemed like most you find from the late 50's. Some times it's getting a late 50's hat with a shorter brim and then blocking it to his style.

For the ones you posted photos of him wearing, I would say that was a died straw hat with a pleated ribbon. Not sure on the brand though... Wish I could help you out more.

Any way, all the best in your findings!

Root.

Root.

 

[Cabinetman]

Correct. Those are indeed straw hats in the pictures.

My source says Cavanagh, which, to me, stands to reason as this is a tremendous hatmaker and from New York, to boot.

High crowns and wide brims would not have suited our favorite blue-eyed crooner. Too skinny of a man was he. At least then. Now, he could have worn what appeared to be wide-brimmed, but in reality were narrow by "golden era standards." In the 30's and 40's with Harry and Tommy, then on his own, he dressed in what he believed was what the kids/fans wanted. "I'm their type," he is quoted as saying then. Pictures are seldom found with him in a hat from this time. Once you get into the Capitol years ('53-'62), you're seeing a lot more hat wear. And much of the time it is the straw, like above. As these recordings are considered by most to be his best work (I really like the early Dorsey stuff, too) and during the time of his first big career comeback (after the early 50's movie flops, etc.), this is probably why, in my opinion, that we see so many pictures from this era.

You know he was a big Kennedy supporter, too. If the President is considered to be one of the big reasons men stopped wearing hats (in general), this could well have been Frank's impetus as well. He was 45 in 1960-61. Then you're getting into the Resprise era and putting on a little weight. Vegas. "The Summit" and so on. His hat seems to be a thing of the past by this time. Maybe some shots were taken as a throwback to his previous style, and present on record jackets, but there are hardly any candid (like in the studio) shots of him in a hat during this time. All this being based on my own research and the materials I have at hand...certainly others' experiences may vary.

Here's an article I found a few years ago. It's a good read.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-97/12-12-97/c01ae108.htm

 

[BluesSinger212]

I'd agree with you, Cabinetman. However, I still believe that He completely stopped wearing hats around '67. Also, the big reason He wore hats in the first palce during the Capitol years was because of His receeding hairline in which He was very sensitive about. There are indeed a few shots of Him in the studio during the Reprise years wearing a fedora. It wasn't until the latter part of the Reprise years (albums like "Strangers In the Night" and "Cycles" to name a few), which I believe was '67 or so (He left Capitol in '63) that He stopped wearing hats all together. Plus, at that time He had lost most of His hair and was wearing a hairpiece anyway.

So now the $1,000,000 question: "Assuming that Frank had His hats custom made, where/how does one obtain a hat just like His?" and How much do they cost?

---Ken

 

[Wild Root]

Since its a million dollar question, that's what it will cost to replicate the hat you so desire.

But, for a limited time only, I could make you one for half the price. J/K.

Give Graham a call at Optimo. His hats range in price, most cost over $400.

But, what I would do if I were you is just look for some nice late 50's hats and you'll find that original hats will capture the look you're going for lots less. Start you’re searching on ebay and you'll find what you're looking for. Maybe not today, maybe not next month, but be patient you will find what you're looking for.

Root.

Flash, this just in! Ebay item 831536085 may be what you're looking for if you are this size....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14065&item=8315360850&rd=1

 

[Cabinetman]

I'd agree with you, Cabinetman. However, I still believe that He completely stopped wearing hats around '67. Also, the big reason He wore hats in the first palce during the Capitol years was because of His receeding hairline in which He was very sensitive about. There are indeed a few shots of Him in the studio during the Reprise years wearing a fedora. It wasn't until the latter part of the Reprise years (albums like "Strangers In the Night" and "Cycles" to name a few), which I believe was '67 or so (He left Capitol in '63) that He stopped wearing hats all together. Plus, at that time He had lost most of His hair and was wearing a hairpiece anyway.
---Ken

I don't disagree. Again, I was basing my post on my experience and materials I have in my posession. Honestly, and I must say he is my favorite artist and song stylist ever - definitely my favorite type of music - I'm not all that fond of his later stuff. Once you get into the Reprise years, my interest kind of wanes. Probably why I haven't seen the hat pics, etc., from that time.

I, too, have been curious about "the hat" (or hats). I'll be anxious to see what you come up with.

Root, that's a dandy find. If 7-1/4 (and, you know, all right with Mrs. C) I believe I'd be right in there.

Happy 4th,

Cab

Here's my news flash...I checked for myself after posting this originally and found one size 7-1/4 that is great! It's over in a day. We'll see...

 

[BluesSinger212]

I don't disagree. Again, I was basing my post on my experience and materials I have in my posession. Honestly, and I must say he is my favorite artist and song stylist ever - definitely my favorite type of music - I'm not all that fond of his later stuff. Once you get into the Reprise years, my interest kind of wanes. Probably why I haven't seen the hat pics, etc., from that time.

I, too, have been curious about "the hat" (or hats). I'll be anxious to see what you come up with.

Root, that's a dandy find. If 7-1/4 (and, you know, all right with Mrs. C) I believe I'd be right in there.

Happy 4th,

Cab

Here's my news flash...I checked for myself after posting this originally and found one size 7-1/4 that is great! It's over in a day. We'll see...

I'm sorry if I meant that I was disagreeing with you. I really wasn't...I do agree with you, lol. I was simply adding to your thought. My apologies :cheers1: .

That is a fine looking hat. I'm not in any rush to get one right away, I was "testing the waters" if you will. I am curious to see if there are any places to get the Sinatra style. Which reminds me, waht are the best "Sinatra - Style" hats out there? I know that there are plenty of distributors that have a "Sinatra" but hardly looks like anything He'd wear.
Happy Belated 4th to all.

---Ken

 

[Cabinetman]

Not at all. Honestly I'm tickled there's yet another Sinatra guy on board here.

Just got home from the best, without question, fireworks display I have ever seen in this small town of 6000. I mean it was really, really good.

See ya around.

Cab

 

[Wild Root]

As you'll find out, when vintage hats that look right come along in the right size (and I'm guessing that you're the size that hat is) YOU DON'T PASS THINGS UP!

If it's your size and it has the look you want, I see no reason spending time, energy and money on finding a guy who will make you a hat that looks like Frank's. I can almost guarantee that you'll be dissatisfied with most repros out there. I don't know, maybe you're one of the types of people who don't like the thought of wearing a vintage item because it has history. Don't know what you're taste is, but if I were looking for something that looked like his hat and find one that had the look and was original to the period of the music you like and such, I'd have to think you would jump on it.

Any way, I was just trying to help you out a little in finding something. Also trying to save you a few bucks and time.

Take it or leave it,

Root.

 

[Cabinetman]

Well, shucks, I didn't get it. But wouldn't this have been just great??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8315326460&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEDW:IT&rd=1

Oh, well, whatta ya do?

Cab