New here, with some questions

[bbshriver]

Sorry if I ask a bunch of general newbie questions that get discussed often. I will be using the search function as well, but figure I can throw some questions into an introduction too!
Little background, I'm 24 but most my friends will tell you I'm at least 50. I drive a Cadillac, shave with a straight razor, and enjoy other "old time" hobbies like reading (people still do that? it's like a movie you can't see!). I've always been a hat enthusiast though the Fedora is a relatively new thing for me. Before it was pretty much cowboy hats and baseball caps. My current Fedora collection consists of an olive colored MacPhergus (don't know anything about this brand, anyone got some insight?) that I got on Ebay. Seems pretty good from what I can tell. Fits right and gets lots of compliments. It's the pretty traditional style with what I believe is called the "snap" brim (?, turned up at the back, probably about 2" wide or less), and a very wide band. Pretty traditional dressy style hat. Also have a "Lids" cheapo fabric fedora in a black and white pinstripe.

I'm wanting to get another nice felt fedora. I've always had a thing for Stetson.. my grandpa always wore Stetson cowboy hats, and after he died my grandma gave me his black Stetson that he'd had forever (just so happened to fit me!). I keep hearing that Stetson quality "aint what it once was", though I bought a newish Stetson cowboy hat last year and it seems pretty decent. What age Stetson would I look for to be the top quality?
I don't mind looking at other brands, but I do like the heritage of the Stetson brand and being made in the USA is good. Though, I'm also a bit of an anglophile so English made would be good too.

I've also read great things about Akurba (sp?) and the Federation hat which certainly looks nice, but concerns me that they do not use beaver fur. How is the felt quality of these compared to say a "golden age" Stetson?

Thanks!

 

[daizawaguy]

Welcome! I am sure you will like it here. AKUBRA 2" or less...i would recommend the WHIPPET...you can see it on hatsdirect...get it soon, that Australian Dollar is rocketing after they raised interest rates yesterday. I am sure there is a historical connection to when they had the Stetson license, though the shape is not like the old Whippets...its too tapered. As for fur quality...let others comment. I have one and its quite course, but then I have not properly worn it in. For the price though, cant beat them. If your looking for beaver 100% check out Vintage Silhouettes. Hope this helps.

 

[bbshriver]

Thanks for the response. The whippet looks OK, I notice Stetson does still make a Whippet. Is it general consensus that Akurba is better than Stetson these days? Looking at the Stetson site, I'm attracted to the Nostalgia and the Pinnacle (figures I'd go straight to the most expensive hat!)

 

[EricH]

Welcome to the fold of anachronisms. I'm afraid your friends are off if they think you're 50. At 50 some, you would still be considered a bit out of time and place, trust me.

There is a wealth of information in the Lounge archives that was unavailable just a few years ago. Search, research and skim through the content and you will become quickly informed. Figure on doing some time to show your sincerity, I consider hat collecting to be a gentlemans full contact blood sport especially if you have a larger noggin. We work hard to find our gems and I still track hats that I lost to better gamesmanship by other esteemed Loungers.

The Stetsons are something we all have in our collections, but you will find other makers as good or better. I have some Akubras that are fine as middle quality work hats, but just don't match up to some vintage or custom. More important though is to find the style that fits your head. There is good advice here for that also.

Most of all, have fun!

Eric

 

[daizawaguy]

I`m sure you will get a lot of responses as the American day wears on...if your a considering a beaver Stetson, I would recommend an Art Fawcett custom. A lot of guys here have 5-6 Akubras, but I would go with 2 customs personally...but then its all a matter of personal choice. One thing is for sure...its a very addictive hobby. Welcome to that...you have been warned!

 

[Doctor Strange]

There's nothing really wrong with modern Stetson fedoras, except that they don't compare to vintage ones. But they're still the classic American hat maker. If you want one, you should get one.

That said, Akubras are great because of their wide range of styles/colors and very solid construction for a reasonable price. Their rabbit fur felt is very tough, though it isn't finely finished to feel as smooth as some others (e.g., Stetson). But their sweatbands are much more comfortable than those of modern Stetsons...

Like many of us, you will probaby end up with hats by both makers. Just take it one hat at a time!

 

[Mr. Paladin]

By all means consider a Stetson, particularly if you are not too fussy about some taper in the crown and 4-4 1/2 inches in crown height. The Pinnacle is a beaver hat and is very nice, though it has the lower crown and taper mentioned above. I own 8 or so modern Stetsons, and they have held up very well. The felt is nice and softens with wear. While it is true that they are not the match of my vintage Stetson Open Roads or other vintage fedoras, they are still very nice. It is also nice to live near the Garland Outlet where great bargains can be had if you pay attention to the details of the hats' construction since many are seconds.

I have two Akubras and like them both very much, particularly their open crowns for shaping as I want. The Akubra felt is much coarser than Stetson felt but they are very hardy hats and, even though I have never had a problem with my Stetsons and rain, I have to admit I pick one of the Akubras if I think its going to get soaked. I tell myself its because they are more expendable but....they are certainly tough.

 

[jimmy the lid]

I consider hat collecting to be a gentlemans full contact blood sport especially if you have a larger noggin.

lol lol lol

I challenge you to a duel at dawn -- Whippets at 20 paces...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[bbshriver]

Thanks for the replies. I tend to watch for "deals" on Ebay, thus the MacPhergus...

What age do people consider the "vintage" Stetsons? I'm assuming sometime back before they were HatCo.. What about older Resistols? I know they and Stetson are now the same brand, but noticed there was an old Resistol Fedora on Ebay recently... just wondering.

 

[Inusuit]

What age do people consider the "vintage" Stetsons? I'm assuming sometime back before they were HatCo.. What about older Resistols? I know they and Stetson are now the same brand, but noticed there was an old Resistol Fedora on Ebay recently... just wondering.

bbschriver,

Welcome to the Lounge. This is a great place to learn a lot about hats of all sorts. I'm a relative newcomer myself, but have caught "hat fever" from repeated exposure to the experts and collectors on this forum.

Like you, I grew up wearing cowboy hats, even through college in the 60's, and for a while after. Then slide into various caps until I started cowboy action shooting back about 1995. That got me back into westerns, and I developed a nostalgic longing for a Stetson Open Road like the one I wore out many years ago.

Googling "Stetson Open Road" brought me to the Fedora Lounge, and the rest as they say is history. That was about a dozen hats ago.

To your original question about "vintage." There are experts here who will no doubt chime in. As you will see from various threads, the exact dating of any vintage hat is a mix of science, art, and voodoo.

I can share with you a few things I look for when shopping Ebay. Due to personal tastes, I am mostly interested in Stetsons and expecially Open Roads or clones by other makers. I don't know squat about fedoras, stingy brims, bowlers, hombergs, porkpies, etc. So my comments don't relate to those styles.

First, most sellers use the term vintage without regard to any factual information about the hat, so that's no help. I watch for the designation 3X. At some point, Stetson's entry level designation changed to 4X, so to me 3X indicates an earlier hat. Also earlier hats had the Stetson crest oriented to the length of the sweat band while later hats have it reading the short way.

As you know, any Stetson that is marked as made in Philadelphia predates the move and licensing of the brand and would be vintage in my book. But sellers ususally won't include this information, although you may be able to ask a seller to look under the sweat band for this information. To me, any Ebay purchase is a bit of a crap shoot. I have bought some nice hats, including an OR 25 and an OR 7X clear beaver. I have also opened a box or two and chucked the contents in the Goodwill pile.

As to older Resistols, my opinion (only) is that earlier Resistols were in general superior to current production.

I have two bits of advice. First, if you are hot to own a good quality felt fedora right now, consider Akubra. I have owned a couple and they are a good value for the money. Second, while you are enjoying your new Akubra, spend a lot of time reading the threads on the Lounge. You will learn a lot from people much smarter and more experienced in this business than I am. You will then be much better positioned to make an informed decision on a vintage hat.

 

[bbshriver]

Thanks for the information.
Sweatband orientation, and presumedly non-Texas made Stestsons are good things to look for. Wasn't there a time when Stetsons were made in MO as well? St. Joeseph I believe?

I'm not really in a rush, and though I hear generally good things about Akurba, everyone seems to comment that they have course felt, and I'm looking more for a "fine" hat.. just looking for a bargain price, thus Ebay, classifieds etc.

However, any recommendations on where to get a good vintage (or even modern) hat are appreciated. I'd like to stay under $100 for either, which I know limits the possibilities a lot, but there are often deals to be had.

Also, are there any good English brands I could look for?

 

[Spats McGee]

Here's a thread that may prove useful:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=43334

 

[EricH]

Bring it on Jimmy. But prepare to get a good pouncing. I can always use another Whippet.

 

[duggap]

Bring it on Jimmy. But prepare to get a good pouncing. I can always use another Whippet.

He cheats, he's got a dog.

 

[Inusuit]

Price often depends on size. As a 7 1/2 long oval, I am often jealous of the deals available on hats in the 7 and 7 1/4 sizes. In those sizes, you could score some great hats for $100 or less. There aren't any vintage clothes purveyors in my area, except Goodwill and Salvation Army, so I'm basically limited to ebay. I did find my first vintage Stetson Open Road by placing a want ad in the local penny shopper newspaper. Actually had several calls about interesting hats, but the OR was exactly what I wanted at the time. Worth a shot, the ad cost me $5-6 bucks for three weeks.

 

[avedwards]

Also, are there any good English brands I could look for?

Christys will do a good fur felt hat for under $100 with shipping included. They have a variety of styles and all of them have the smooth felt you seem to want. Old name as well, having existed since the late 1700s I think.
Try http://www.hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Fur Felts Apparently if you email them they can also change the crown height, brim width or ribbons of hats for you.

As for your dressy fedora, the 2" brim and wide ribbon sounds like a 1960s hat. Good quality hats were still made in large quantities then, though narrower brims and lower crowns were more popular due to the styles at the time (narrow suit lapels) and practical reasons like cars.

As for Stetsons, I can comment first hand as the hat in my avatar is a Sovereign quality Chatham (I use this as an example on a lot of threads ). I've worn it day in day out for quite a few months. It has coped with a lot of heavy rain, though the brim and crown may need to be steamed to reshape them now and then. Comparing to pictures of new ones, mine doesn't look as smart as when new.

 

[CRH]

lol lol lol

I challenge you to a duel at dawn -- Whippets at 20 paces...

Cheers,
JtL

Oh, this will be fun! I'll bring the beer. Where?

lol

 

[jwalls]

Welcome. I must agree with some of our friends, your money would be better spent on a few good customs.

 

[bbshriver]

This is my Mac Phergus. Anyone know about this brand? I didn't find anything useful here on the forum. It is also stamped with ONeil's presumptively a mens' store somewhere?