New Generation Brims With Anxiety Over Hat Etiquette

[Prairie Dog]

Thought you would find this article from the WSJ an interesting read.

Discovering Hats, a New Generation Brims With Anxiety Over Etiquette
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703748904575411874109848424.html

Today, confusion over the rules of hat wearing is leading to some awkward situations.

Take Eric Soler of Hackensack, N.J. for instance, he took offense when he tried to enter a bar in Hoboken recently with a fedora atop his head, only to be told there was a no-hat policy.
"It just floored me," says the 38-year-old. "I said 'I'm not wearing a baseball cap or a ski hat, I'm wearing an $80 fedora!' He grudgingly obliged and held the hat in his hand all night.

Lizzie Post, the great-great-granddaughter of Emily Post, says it is now OK if a man is wearing a hat at a bar or nightclub as part of his style. "In that kind of situation, I'd feel cool with it," she says. But when being introduced to someone, "that's when I'd remove the hat or maybe tilt it back a little so the brim isn't in your eyes and the person can see your face," she says. "It really comes down to people like making eye contact during an introduction and a hat can sometimes block that."

Should "the situation" dictate hat etiquette, or gentlemanly standards of the past?

 

[Torpedo]

Well, I would think a not small part of the problem is they are not really familiar with hat etiquette. Wearing a hat is part of my look also, but I do not wear at the table when in a restaurant, or would wear it at class, or inside a religious building.

This could of course lead us into a debate about an evolution of the etiquette rules according to contemporary uses and points of view. These, as so many other rules (general manners rules, dress code rules, etc) are sometimes (often?) claimed to be "outdated" or "old-fashioned", and its dropping or loosening advocated.

 

[Torpedo]

BTW, I just noticed the same article has been introduced in a previous posting ("Wall Street Journal Story On Hats Revival"), where some comments are being made too. Probably a merging would be needed.

 

[ScionPI2005]

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

Reading it reminds me of the no-hat-indoors policy at my old high school. I'm a guy who understands and values some hat etiquette, however, I do think that being required to take a hat off upon the immediate entrance of a building at the risk of being criticized is absurd. When I got to college, the days that I wore a hat to class, I would keep my hat on until arriving settled in my desk where the hat would come off, and be replaced with my notepad and class materials.

Others on the Lounge here have had the argument: "you don't remove your jacket upon immediately entering a building, why must you remove your hat and carry that around if you're not settled somewhere, doing something?" I have to agree with that. I take off my hat if I'm sitting down eating with friends or family, but I'm not going to take it off the moment I'm no longer exposed to the outside elements. I think that would become more of a nuisance in having to continuously carry the hat around in my hands.

I like how this article has several different examples of hat etiquette experiences across generations. It's not just teens and people in their twenties, but older folks are wondering about it as well. I definitely think it leads to some interesting discussions regarding social psychology and peer pressure.

 

[jwalls]

I read this article in WSJ this morning. I did not really see this as a problem other than simple bad manners. I suppose we did not teach the younger generation graceful living.

 

[AcridSaint]

I read the article, I also feel a little torn about taking the hat off in some indoor situations. At someone's home or table I always do, even baseball caps which are generally considered "OK" by most these days. At a sit-down joint, absolutely. At a bar? No, I don't.

So, what about the mall or department stores? If it's someplace that doesn't offer hat storage (who does?), then I at least some part of me doesn't feel like you should have to take it off. Where exactly are the college students to put their hats? I never saw a rack in college, or even a nice safe space for one. Sadly, I also agree somewhat with the kid in the hall. I know it's not "proper" by some standards, but it is not unheard of to put your hat on to head out, nor do I think it rude to take it off when coming in to sit down.

I do have to get a hat rack for my cubicle.

 

[danofarlington]

Thought you would find this article from the WSJ an interesting read.


Should "the situation" dictate hat etiquette, or gentlemanly standards of the past?

I always, always take my hat off in the bathroom. No exceptions. I don't care what anybody says.

 

[Neophyte]

I just started wearing hats this summer. I usually tilt it far back to meet someone, though I always take it off if it's a lady. I usually take it off in a restaraunt as long as there's somewhere to put it down. This is mostly because I'm afraid I might touch it with greasy, pizza-sauce covered hands. To me, hat ettiquette comes down almost to common sense.

Also, I was born and raised in the Southeast Bible Belt, so I knows me's some ettiquettes lol.

 

[jlee562]

Well, the thing is, "back in the day" hats were de rigueur. Nowadays, hats are more of a fashion statement....which is why so many people don't know that ears aren't supposed to be tucked in to their hat. That's a big hat faux pas for me.

Honestly, I think a lot of hat etiquette is outdated. I don't take my hat off the moment I enter a building unless I'm going to a Church, or a really nice restaurant, or some other event where common sense would dictate to take it off. If I'm going to, for example, go to the mall, grocery shopping, casual restaurant (until the table anyways), etc, I'll probably keep it on.

 

[Torpedo]

But the thing is, you need not to remove your hat on entering a building. This applies only for homes, religious buildings, and some other exceptions (some mentioned there, and some in the parallel thread where the same article is also being discussed ). Keep you hat on when inside shops, malls, in general, public locales. Sometimes you can enter with your hat on, but are later expected to take it off, like when actually seating at your restaurant table or your theater seat.

I know, I know, some people choose to remove their hats under any roof (probably because of the military custom, too), and fine it is, but it is not required.

 

[jlee562]

But the thing is, you need not to remove your hat on entering a building. This applies only for homes, religious buildings, and some other exceptions (some mentioned there, and some in the parallel thread where the same article is also being discussed ). Keep you hat on when inside shops, malls, in general, public locales. Sometimes you can enter with your hat on, but are later expected to take it off, like when actually seating at your restaurant table or your theater seat.

I know, I know, some people choose to remove their hats under any roof (probably because of the military custom, too), and fine it is, but it is not required.

Well, it was really meant more as a general comment, I suppose I should have worded it better.

But, citing the "All You Need to know about Hat Etiquette" thread:

A gentleman takes off his Hat and holds it in his hand when a lady enters the elevator in which he is a passenger, but he puts it back on again in the corridor. A public corridor is like the street, but an elevator is suggestive of a room, and a gentleman does not keep his Hat on in the presence of ladies in a house.

Something like this, is, IMHO ridiculous. I'm in the "make your own rules" camp. I've got no problem with taking off my hat for the pledge of allegiance, or at a funeral, in a church, etc.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thought you would find this article from the WSJ an interesting read.

Discovering Hats, a New Generation Brims With Anxiety Over Etiquette
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703748904575411874109848424.html

Today, confusion over the rules of hat wearing is leading to some awkward situations.

Take Eric Soler of Hackensack, N.J. for instance, he took offense when he tried to enter a bar in Hoboken recently with a fedora atop his head, only to be told there was a no-hat policy.
"It just floored me," says the 38-year-old. "I said 'I'm not wearing a baseball cap or a ski hat, I'm wearing an $80 fedora!' He grudgingly obliged and held the hat in his hand all night.

Lizzie Post, the great-great-granddaughter of Emily Post, says it is now OK if a man is wearing a hat at a bar or nightclub as part of his style. "In that kind of situation, I'd feel cool with it," she says. But when being introduced to someone, "that's when I'd remove the hat or maybe tilt it back a little so the brim isn't in your eyes and the person can see your face," she says. "It really comes down to people like making eye contact during an introduction and a hat can sometimes block that."

Should "the situation" dictate hat etiquette, or gentlemanly standards of the past?

The Hoboken story reminded me of something that happened years ago in Florida.

I was in labor relations and in the two out of three years we weren't negotiting a new contract with the union, we'd have a weeklong labor-management meeting somewhere nice where there was plenty to do day and night. You know, management guys and union guys doin' stuff together, building relationships, getting to know one another as people and not just as The Opposition.

This particular year it was in Orlando. It was the last night we'd be in town, and I took out the HR Mgr and his four union officers from our plant in a small town in Texas. We dined on prime steaks and seafood at a classy restaurant near the hotel and had more than a few drinks, but the night was still young.

While I was in the John, the fellas decided they wanted to drink some more and see "nekkid ladies" dance, as that was against the law in their neck of the Lone Star State. Unfamiliar with the area and in the interest of more favorable labor relations, I asked the restaurant manager where we could find such a place, and so he gave me detailed directions.

They got a bottle of whiskey next door, we piled into the big Fleetwood rental Caddy, and I drove and drove and drove and drove until we finally got to this mega-strip-joint way on the opposite side of the geographically gigantic city of Orlando. I think the steak place manager had made too much of the "nekkid" descriptor and so had steered us to this totally nude dancing girls place so far, far away, whereas a merely topless joint would have been just fine with my guys--and much closer.

But there we were, so we paid the cover, and in we went. Though I was bare-headed, the other five guys, being true Texans, all had on wide-brimmed Western-style Stetsons. We'd just bought a round of hideously expensive drinks when the muscled-bound bouncer told us "No hats!"

The guys immediately took their hats off and looked for a place to hang or set them down, but there was no place available--the joint was packed. Saying, "I'll hold it for you, cowboy," a big breasted dancer took the fancy Stetson from the union president and placed it over her mammaries, giggling, "Look ma, no hands!"

But the bouncer became irate, snatched his hat from her "rack," and proceeded to strong-arm the Texans toward the door, despite that they'd each just shelled out about 25 bucks on the cover charge and drinks. Meanwhile, I'd found the manager and, seeing other patrons wearing baseball caps, asked him what the problem was with my guys' hats--I figured they might be too large and block the view of the naked ladies.

Yet the utterly despicable guy said, "Because I don't like cowboy hats, cowboys, or anything from Texas, and I'm the owner, so what I say is the way it is, got it?" Thankfully, my guys were out of earshot of that comment, and I went outside and was, with patient persuasion, able to eventually cajole the proud Texans into leaving their hats in the trunk. Then we all went back in without further incident.

 

[BlackBrim]

The restaurant Houton's http://www.hillstone.com/#/restaurants/houstons/ has a strict policy of no hats.If a customer is wearing a hat at the table the waiters and waitresses are instructed to tell them to take it off.

 

[ScionPI2005]

Well, it was really meant more as a general comment, I suppose I should have worded it better.

But, citing the "All You Need to know about Hat Etiquette" thread:



Something like this, is, IMHO ridiculous. I'm in the "make your own rules" camp. I've got no problem with taking off my hat for the pledge of allegiance, or at a funeral, in a church, etc.

I don't follow these extremes either. I've often wondered if those that follow such extremes in our present day and age might, in fact, have the opposite effect of etiquette, and instead, make someone uncomfortable. If a person's behavior is way outside of the norm of todays' behaviors and accepted behaviors, they could have that effect.

 

[handlebar bart]

I don't follow these extremes either. I've often wondered if those that follow such extremes in our present day and age might, in fact, have the opposite effect of etiquette, and instead, make someone uncomfortable. If a person's behavior is way outside of the norm of todays' behaviors and accepted behaviors, they could have that effect.

Great point. I think if a person takes it to a extreme that is far past present day standards it creates the impression that it is a costume piece and not just a hat. The whole tipping your hat toward a lady or taking it off in an elevator. When I see someone tipping their baseball hat or stocking hat, I will do the same but those days are long gone.

 

[Argee]

hen I see someone tipping their baseball hat or stocking hat, I will do the same but those days are long gone.

I find toughing two fingers to the brim of my baseball cap works well as a greeting. I'll echo what others have said: the main problem with hat etiquette is that places where it would be proper to remove your hat no longer have any place to store them. I can stick my ballcap in my back pocket, maybe I need to build a belt mounted fedora hanger.

 

[Tiller]

I don't follow these extremes either. I've often wondered if those that follow such extremes in our present day and age might, in fact, have the opposite effect of etiquette, and instead, make someone uncomfortable. If a person's behavior is way outside of the norm of todays' behaviors and accepted behaviors, they could have that effect.

I always take my hat off when I'm in an elevator with a lady, and it has never caused a negative reaction yet. I always get a smile, or a conversation because of it.

"Well dressed, and a proper gentleman!" as one thirty something lady, said about three months ago now to me on such an occasion. Although I'm not sure how proper I am, I do try to make an effort.

The whole "I'm a rebel and will do what I want." attitude I tend to find annoying, and as phony as some people tend to think of us "don't be rude" guys and gals lol. It only really angers me if it's in a few places though, such as a church, or when someone is sitting down eating, or at a theater/ballgame when you are blocking someone's view, or when a funeral passes by.

Anyone who is sitting at my table will be asked to remove their hat, no matter what they are wearing, from ball cap up to the beloved top hat lol. Mennonite ladies in bonnets, Catholic officals wearing zucchetto's, and Jews wearing kippah's are exempt from said table rule though lol.

Really certains rules seem to be misunderstood though. To my knowledge even in the Golden Era it wasn't uncommon to wear your hat to the local watering whole, dinner, or shops.

I guess it boils down to what yours morals are. For me not taking off your hat in an elevator when a lady gets on, is like pushing an old woman aside to get into a building before her instead of helping her with the door. For me it's just a sign of respect.

 

[jlee562]

I guess it boils down to what yours morals are. For me not taking off your hat in an elevator when a lady gets on, is like pushing an old woman aside to get into a building before her instead of helping her with the door. For me it's just a sign of respect.

To each their own, but I find this to be a silly comment bordering on absurdity.

 

[Tiller]

To each their own, but I find this to be a silly comment bordering on absurdity.

Of course, your in San Fran, I'm in the Adirondack Mountains (if I told you exactly where 9/10 you'd have no idea). Our cultures couldn't be more different, unless you completely left the US. Almost everything I hear about San Fran I find to be absurd so why wouldn't you find things here equally odd. lol

 

[ScionPI2005]

Of course, your in San Fran, I'm in the Adirondack Mountains (if I told you exactly where 9/10 you'd have no idea). Our cultures couldn't be more different, unless you completely left the US. Almost everything I hear about San Fran I find to be absurd so why wouldn't you find things here equally odd. lol

I'm personally fascinated by the differences in cultures from location to location. In comparison to my peers here in Albuquerque, I am actually considered rather socially conservative, as I believe in a lot of social behaviors and signs of respect that many others in my generation turn away from. However, I do know that on the opposite side of that coin, I'm also considered somewhat socially liberal when in comparison to other places and cultures.

I honestly cannot say how a woman would respond to a gentleman removing his hat in her presence in an elevator here in Albuquerque. I've never witnessed it, nor have I heard anything along those lines. I guess the only example I can go off of is the removal of a hat upon sitting down for dinner in a public place. I do this regularly when eating with others, and many people always ask me why I do that; even members of older generations. They find it odd. I guess it's just the overall majority in regards to liberal social views here.