Never forget - how can I?

[Spitfire]

Snap - and a picture was taken.
Just another day in 303 Squadron at Northolt during that hot summer of 1940. Beginning of September.
3 Polish pilots:L to R: Sgt Michal BRZEZOWSKI, Sgt Stefan WOJTOWICZ and Sgt Eugeniusz SZAPOSZNIKOW
Smiling rather awkward to the camera or starring at the ground.

Within two weeks after this picture was taken both Brzezowski and Wojtowich were dead. KIA.
Only Szaposznikow survived the war.

It makes me very sad, just to look at this - but also very, very grateful.

 

[Smithy]

It is a wonderful photo mate. Well posted.

 

[Miss Stella]

I truly believe we all need to be reminded of the sacrifices so many made so we may live so freely today. Things may not be perfect but they could be oh SO much worse!

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Sgt Szaposznikow's actual uniform -- he was an ace with eight victories.

http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/POLAND/SZAP/Szap.html

 

[alsendk]

V:C:Brunswick
did the pilots, from where ever they were coming to Great Britain to fight, have their individual country uniform as their regular uniform within the RAF?
did the few danish pilots have their danish uniforms also?
A fine gesture from RAF if so, I believe.

 

[TomS]

Very Interesting, thanks!

 

[1961MJS]

V:C:Brunswick
did the pilots, from where ever they were coming to Great Britain to fight, have their individual country uniform as their regular uniform within the RAF?
did the few danish pilots have their danish uniforms also?
A fine gesture from RAF if so, I believe.

Hi

VC will have a more complete answer, but the RAF provided Country tabs similar in placement, shape and size to the US Army Rangr and Special Forces Tab with the country of the pilot on it. USA, South Africa, and others were used. Americans made up the Eagle Squadron, but that probably wasn't the only squadron that Americans served in.

Later

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I believe the Free French pilots retained their old dark blue Armee' de L'Aire uniforms but aircrew from the other Allied nations (Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland) serving under RAF command wore the standard RAF-issue uniform with the addition of their own national insignia which was also identified by the nationality tab. There also exists a USA/Canada tab presumably for the Americans who were with the RCAF.

 

[Smithy]

I believe the Free French pilots retained their old dark blue Armee' de L'Aire uniforms but aircrew from the other Allied nations (Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland) serving under RAF command wore the standard RAF-issue uniform with the addition of their own national insignia which was also identified by the nationality tab. There also exists a USA/Canada tab presumably for the Americans who were with the RCAF.

Not necessarily. For Allied air force aircrew serving under RAF administration it depended on the individual air force involved and within that very often on when and where the aircrew in question trained and/or finished training. Norwegian airmen for instance can be seen wearing full RAF uniform, with RAF wings, equivalent RAF rank and shoulder nationality insignia very early in their involvement, eg Svein Heglund. Whereas later in the war Norwegian airmen were wearing their full national uniform, including, wings, rank, caps, etc with the sole addition of a "Norway" shoulder flash.


Alsendk,

Danish aircrew for the most part wore Norwegian uniform patterns as the majority of them served within the Norwegian squadrons, eg Kaj Birksted.

 

[alsendk]

Alsendk,

"Danish aircrew for the most part wore Norwegian uniform patterns as the majority of them served within the Norwegian squadrons, eg Kaj Birksted. "


Thanks for your information Smithy, I have 2 pictures in my pc, that presumely indicates these 2 danish pilots to wear RAF/ norwegian uniforms.
I have no idea what was their name, or what happened to these two chaps.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[Smithy]

Hi Alsendk, thanks for posting those photos. I definitely have that second photo and will dig it out as I think I can name the pilot.

Just from looking at it now, the fact that he has RAF uniform and wings suggests that he either went through the RAF training programme (EFS and OTU in England) or was one of the first intakes through Little Norway in Canada before the giving out of norwegian wings.

But let me dig a few books out and I'm fairly certain I can name the fellow.

Thanks for posting those.

Tim

 

[alsendk]

A pleasure to see that also my tiny country participated in fighting against the intruding enemy from south of Europe in ww2, as we have fought them since 1864 - and before that.
Just hope that these 2 danish pilots made it home, but that`s probably to much to hope for, reading books about the battle of Britain, how great a loss of pilots that went on every single day....books recommended by my fellow dane Søren/Spitfire.

I have to point out that when writing about the german enemy I strictly mean the nazi germany only.
I do have many wonderful german close friends, highly valued by me..wonderful friends.

[/IMG]

 

[Smithy]

Hi Alsendk,

You should be proud. A fair few Danes flew against Germany during the war and made a valuable contribution.

In terms of your photos above, those two fellows were with 234 Sqn. The first chap is Aksel Svendsen and the second, Jørgen Thalbitzer. Sadly both were killed on operations.

234 actually had quite a number of Danes serving in it throughout the war.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[alsendk]

Tim, the name of JørgenThalbitzer was essential for finding more accurate information about him. He actually made it home, after being captured to prison inside Germany.
Here is his history :


On 23 July 1942, while flying Spitfire AB864, Thalbitzer was shot down during a Rhubarb mission to Lannion and crashed into high tension wires near Plouescat He evaded capture for around 14 days, before being caught and becoming a POW. He used the assumed name of 'John Thompson' to hide his real identity from the Germans, to help protect his family who were still living in occupied Denmark.

He was initially sent to Stalag Luft III where he became involved with the escape organisation headed by Lieutenant Commander Jimmy Buckley. In November 1942 he was sent with Buckley, to Oflag XXI-B in Poland.

An escape tunnel had been constructed at Oflag XXI-B, aided by Thalbitzer; it was used for a mass escape on 5 March 1943. Thalbitzer escaped with Buckley, together they first travelled to Stettin hoping to find a Danish or Swedish ship which might be able to take them to neutral Sweden. However they were unable to locate any suitable ships, and after narrowly avoiding recapture, they 'jumped' onto a train bound for Rostock. Here they also found no suitable ships. From Rostock they decided to head for Copenhagen and reached the city after passing through numerous identity checks using forged papers created in the POW camp. In Copenhagen, Thalbitzer contacted his father, Billy, and through the Danish underground forces, it was arranged for Thalbitzer and Buckley to make the crossing to Sweden using a canoe.

They departed the Danish coast at 10pm on 28 March 1943, but were never seen alive again. Thalbitzer's body was later recovered, but Buckley's was never found.

Thalbitzer was first buried on 7 July 1943 at Tibirke churchyard, north of Copenhagen, however after his body was identified, by means of his ring with the family coat-of-arms, his urn was interred on 31 July 1943 at Vestre Cemetery, Copehagen City.On 23 July 1942.


What a sad story, after making it through Germany back to Denmark.

Thanks for your help Tim

ALan IverSEN DK

 

[Spitfire]

Hi Allan
If you are into the danish RAF pilots, I strongly recommend this great book:
Susanne Feierskov: Med Vinger og Våben

She is the daughter of one of the danish pilots, psychologist and doctor. And she writes brilliantly!!!
Do not think that this great book is translated to english - all though it should be!

 

[alsendk]

Prologue

This is a story about 3 Danish Spitfires. In 1941 and 1942 a group of Danish businessmen living in England collected £38.000, to buy Spitfires. The cheque for £38.000 was handed over to Winston Churchill in No.10 Downing Street by a group of Danes, among them Jørgen Thalbitzer, Axel Svendsen and Jens Ibsen, All three were serving as fighter pilots in the RAF.

This amount of money was enough to pay for 3 Spitfires Mk. VB:

BL831 Baptised ``Skagen Ind"
BL855 Baptised ``Niels Ebbesen"
BL924 Baptised ``Valdemar Atterdag"

All 3 had a ``Dannebrog" (name of the Danish flag) painted on both sides of the fuselage in front of the cockpit and in front of the names.

The 3 planes were delivered 16th February 1942 to 24th Maintenance Unit and were transferred to 234th Squadron on the 5th of April 1942. Here the 3 Spits were to be flown by Danish pilots, serving at that Squadron.

2 of the 3 planes were not on duty for long, BL831 and BL924 being lost during an air battle on 24th of April 1942. On that occasion an American pilot Fl.Lt Watkins flew BL924. A Danish pilot Axel Svendsen flew BL924.

Danish Spitfires at war

.Quite a few Danes served in the Allied Air Forces during the war. One, who is probably the most well known, is Kaj Birksted, OBE, DFC, DSO. He finished as a highly respected Wing Commander and as an Ace with 10 confirmed and 10 possible kills.




The Danish Ace, Wing Commander Kaj Birksted
At his homecoming in 1945

[/IMG]

He flew, amongst others, a Spitfire Mk. IX in 331st Squadron with his personal code ``KB" instead of the normal squadron code, a privilege, which only Aces could enjoy.

When he resigned as chief of the RAF Norwegian department, he was transferred to Combined Control Council, general staff of the Royal Air Force. Where he, from time to time, had command over all British air forces during the day operations at the invasion of Normandy in 1944.

Kaj Birksted wore 3 Spitfires out in his pilot's career in the RAF. He survived the war and came home to Denmark and continued his service in Royal Danish Air Force (RDAF) until 1960, when he commenced a position at NATO.

3 of the previously mentioned pilots, Jørgen Thalbitzer, Axel Svendsen and Jens Ibsen have also a story that should be told.

Axel Svendsen's family moved to England before the war, and when it broke out he joined the RAF. At Flight school he met Jørgen Thalbitzer, who had fled from Denmark after the occupation of 9th of April 1940, and Jens Ibsen, who had service in the French Foreign Legion.

After Flight school he came to 32nd Squadron at an airfield near Manston, where he flew Hawker Hurricanes. At a later time Jørgen Thalbitzer also joined 32nd Squadron.

From April 2nd 1942 Jørgen Thalbitzer and Axel Svendsen retrained to fly Spitfires and transferred to 234th Squadron at Tangmere. In the first half of April 1942 Axel Svendsen wrote to his family that he thought the Squadron was losing too many people over Northern France, because the Spitfire Mk. V was very inferior to the new German Focke-Wulf 190.

On April 24th 1942 234th Squadron went out on a flight to Northern France, and over Berck-Sur-Mer at the canal coast they were attacked by 20 FW190's. 2 Spitfires were shot down – BL831 and BL924. BL831 was, as mentioned, flown by the American pilot Fl. Lt. Watkins. Axel Svendsen flew BL924, but no one saw him go down. Both pilots were killed.

2 additional Spitfires were shot down, but these 2 pilots bailed out and were taken prisoner of war. This flight was to have been Axel Svendsen's last before a leave. When the Squadron returned to Tangmere, Jørgen Thalbitzer took off again to try to find his friend, but with no result.

On a flight in July 1942 Jørgen Thalbitzer was hit himself and ``Niels Ebbesen" was losing altitude. In the following emergency landing the plane hit a high-voltage line and made a somersault. One wing was torn off and the plane ended upside down and Thalbitzer had to cut himself loose. After 14 days on the run in France, he was taken prisoner by the Germans due to a French farmer who called the police that arrested him. This was how BL855 was lost.

Jørgen Thalbitzer later fled from the German prisoner of war camp during the famous great escape from a camp for airmen at Bromberg in Poland. He and another English pilot, James Brian Buckley got away via Danzig to Denmark, where Jørgen Thalbitzer for a short wile was reunited with his family. During the further escape from Denmark to Sweden they both drowned, when their folding boat presumably collapsed on the way over Oresund.

Today it is possible to see a replica of the Danish Spitfire; in which Axel Svendsen met his destiny, at a small interesting museum at the now closed airfield at Tangmere in Southern England.

 

[alsendk]

Hi Allan
If you are into the danish RAF pilots, I strongly recommend this great book:
Susanne Feierskov: Med Vinger og Våben

She is the daughter of one of the danish pilots, psychologist and doctor. And she writes brilliantly!!!
Do not think that this great book is translated to english - all though it should be!

I am so amazed about your knowledge about the litterature of ww2 you have in your study at home Søren.
This is one more book I will ask my library to find for me.

Really all loungers here have so much knowledge to contribute with. I am so pleased to have found this Fedora Lounge.

 

[Spitfire]

To be honest - I do not know more than basics about WWII - and only in the ETO and North Africa. What went on in the Pacific is almost blank to me. Except the major things. But I have always had a great interest in flying, Battle of Britain and RAF. Tim/Smithy knows much, much more than me though! He's the true Ace here
So please do not ask me about Hellcats, Bearcats or Midway...
But if you do, I am sure there are other members here, who knows just as much and are more than willing to share. Thats the greatness of this forum

 

[alsendk]

It certainly is

 

[cookie]

Snap - and a picture was taken.
Just another day in 303 Squadron at Northolt during that hot summer of 1940. Beginning of September.
3 Polish pilots:L to R: Sgt Michal BRZEZOWSKI, Sgt Stefan WOJTOWICZ and Sgt Eugeniusz SZAPOSZNIKOW
Smiling rather awkward to the camera or starring at the ground.

Within two weeks after this picture was taken both Brzezowski and Wojtowich were dead. KIA.
Only Szaposznikow survived the war.

It makes me very sad, just to look at this - but also very, very grateful.

Second greatest number of lost pilots in the BofB were Poles. Long live the free Poland that finally came out of their struggles and valour.