(Nelson's Battle of Trafalgar-2005) Can Health & Safety go too far?

[jake_fink]

Ever thought health & safety at work can go too far?

Q: Ever thought health & safety at work can go too far?


A: No.

 

[jamespowers]

Yes, it is way out of hand. You have to provide for every possible case imaginable to man. It gets to be ridiculous when you have to put in wheelchair ramps at ice skating rinks and roller rinks. :kick:
Second of all is the cost. Anyone have a true idea how much it costs to outfit a business for ramps, bathroom acess and the like? Let me tell you---plenty. It hurts small business more than big businesses and sometimes I think big businesses encourage such barriers to entry into their market to maintain a competitive advantage. The more regulations the harder it is for the little guy.
Beside that, we certainly would have to suspend those rules if it involves beating the French.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

It gets to be ridiculous when you have to put in wheelchair ramps at ice skating rinks and roller rinks.

These folks may not be able to skate, but have every right to have access to a building to watch family members who do skate. Plenty of birthday parties are thrown in places like these.

My stepfather is in a wheelchair from Alzheimer's, and I know what it's like to haul him up a steep flight of stairs in his chair. It can be very dangerous for all involved. Most of the time, my mother is the only one helping my stepfather, and she doesn't have the strength to take him up stairs by herself. Ramps are always welcome.

I realize there is an enormous cost to these ramps, but it is necessary in this day and age. Medical and technological advances have made it possible for these people to be active members of society. In the Golden Era, they probably would have been confined to home or bed.

I'm trying not to be my "grouchy" old self, but just trying to show people the other side of things. You don't think about it until you've been there.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

I'm trying not to be my "grouchy" old self, but just trying to show people the other side of things. You don't think about it until you've been there.

Believe me, Brad, I know exactly what you mean. I have a grandmother in even worse shape than your father and a mother a bit better. It is tough when someone is in that condition and even harder to move them around.
However, I think the market should set the pace. I doubt many businesses would be willing to write off business from people in such physical condition. These measures are directed straight across the board though and it hurts those just getting started. If they do not provide access then they do not get your business---period. That is already a disadvantage.
I remember how it was before the ADA with my 87 year old grandfather. He got into areas we wanted him to go with the help of two of my uncles. They provided the muscle. No one was going to keep him out---no matter what.

Regards to all,

J

 

[IndianaGuybrush]

Brilliant post Paddy, made me laugh out loud :cheers1:

 

[Sharon]

Yes, times have changed that even logic and justice are last to politics and money. (Hope I got the jist of this) On a lesser level yet still important~I remember doctors that made housecalls because they felt it was their duty to care for the sick and because they cared in their hearts. Today if someone is sick...the person either has to wait till business opened after 9 or go to the emergency room to wait for hours...but first fill out the necessary papers so the hospital doesn't get sued. And this goes for other institutions as well such as schools. Schools make you sign a ton of papers to alleviate any responsiblity for the child. It really seems that the importance is based on not getting sued rather than the child's education which if we really all just thought about it...was the whole main purpose to begin with!

Today...it isn't the cause...it's the worry of being sued and pointing the finger of blame at someone else. I can understand why this all happened but I feel that there are so many necessary times that we need to go beyond regulations, use our common sense, have a sense of self dignity and just do the right thing that we know in our hearts is right for us. If someone is falling out of a window, do you react to save a life or do you obey the sign "Violation to Trespassers"? Where do we go from here?

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Hey Joe,

Where in MD do you live. I lived in Southern MD for awhile, Waldorf and Leonardtown, and I lived On the Eastern Shore for a time, Salisbury.

 

[LaMedicine]

I'm north of DC, in Wheaton, the least fashionable part of the immensity that is called Silver Spring, eastern Montgomery County.

What a small world! I attended B-CC ages ago, knew some kids from Wheaton Sr. High. There was a very small indoor ice skating rink in Silver Spring at that time. I wonder if it's still there.
When I went to a friend's wedding in Dallas last year, I ran into an aunt of the bride who'd attended Walter Johnson. Who'd have thought, so many years and thousands of miles away!

As for safety and precaution...We doctors would like to be good samaritans, but, well, too many stories abound on what happened to something done in good faith...It does make us think at least a few times over before giving a hand...
And I have to attend a full week's course on Occupational Environment Hazard and Safety Medicine next week...50 full hours of lectures and lab work...My summer vacation is shot!!

I really love this story

 

[Biltmore Bob]

When I got out of the Marines...

I moved back east and ended up in Forrestville, in PG County, for about 3 months. Before we moved to Texas in 2000, we considered moving to Oakland MD, its far western MD. Theres a man made lake there called Deep Creek Lake. Beautiful country but no livelyhood to be had. I was raised around The District when 15 minutes outside the Capital was semi rural.

 

[jamespowers]

We Americans never want the government interfering in anything, unless it is to our advantage! "Don't tell me what to do! But make my neighbor stop doing that!" An nice historical example is the Coconut Grove fire and its aftermath. There were 492 dead after the fire in the Coconut Grove club in Boston in 1942, and, as is always the case after such a disaster, the cry was that something must be done! The result, all across the US, revolving doors were required to have flanking exits. Exit doors were required to open out. Occupant capacity placards, exit lights and emergency lighting were required. Fire sprinklers were required. The Life Safety Code originated from the Coconut Grove fire. Lots of government interference. Would you rather not have the regulations? I'm sure many ot these regulations were bitterly complained of at the time, an the argument was the same - makes it too tough to get started in business, too expensive to retrofit the place, etc.

You use a perfect example that actually butresses my point. What killed the people in the Coconut Grove? Was it really the fire and too few exits? Or was it the gas that was emitted from the synthetic decorations that were everywhere? I'll help.
It was the gas that was emitted from the synthetic decorations. People were found sitting at the bar and at tables upstairs without a single burn on them. What happened? The noxious gas killed them so fast that they were dead in seconds where they sat, stood or moved. All of those regulations would not have made a bit of difference because none of it dealt with the gas.
This case, as in many others, government interference did nothing to chnge the use of the materials that emitted noxious gas. All they did was "do something." It was and still is expensive. However the threat of lawsuits would have eventually forced businesses to do the same thing in the interest of self preservation without government intervention. In other words, it would have happened anyway.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I'll not go into the details here, but some deaths were caused by the gas and other were caused by the trouble people had exiting. Fire code regulations about exits and sprinklers in public buildings are not stupid government interference. Yes, we can wait for "market forces" to take care of things, but the public demanded action, and action is what it got. The action was not inappropriate. Very American, very democratic. Guess a lot of people didn't want to be the next to die while waiting for market forces to take charge. It took a little longer to get rules about combustible materials, but we have a bunch of those now too. No, we are not perfectly safe. But I, for one, do not long for those good old days.

Ok then at what point is enough enough? Do we have to make everything absolutely, perfectly, inscrutibly safe? Everything has to be idiot proof by government regulations?
Cars are dangerous and kill more people very year than restaurant fires. I want something done. Lets make then all incapable of speeds over 30mph and put live rubber bumpers all the way around them.
More people are killed every year by beatings due to hands and feet---even more than guns. I want something done. The government should force everyone to wear boxing gloves and padded shoes.
The air is sometimes poluted in certain areas. I want something done! The government should force those people to carry oxygen with them so they do not breathe in toxic contaminants.
Its all for the good of the people. We know what is best for them. They just can't make decisions for themselves.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Not over the top at all. It is just illustrating the obsurdity of it all.
You work for these "leaders?' I feel sorry for you. The point of having a Representative Republic was to allow people to lead not follow the money or pressure groups. It may not be easy, believe me I know having been an elected official, but it is what expected. However, they seem to be more interested in what is expedient rather than what is right.
I have worked to reform and change laws that are unfair and burdensome to individuals and businesses alike. I have qualified local initiatives for the ballot and worked on state initiatives as well. Recently I am working on one initiative and another campaign. I am far from not involved in the process so I know well what it takes to change it. Once something is written into law, a bureaucracy is created to enforce it and subsequently proliferate it. It is not easy to remove it because those who benefit will fight like Hell to keep it. This I know as well. Boy do I know it.
I see you think there is no limit on the growth of government as well for good or bad. The problem is that government becomes more tyranical as it grows and as the people cede more and more of their rights to it. I think Franklin said it best when he said: "Those who will give up liberty to obtain security deserve neither."

Regards to all,

J