Neighbors against Habitat for Humanity Project

[Tourbillion]

Well I did a bit of checking, and the average price of homes has been dropping in Marin. It went from $950,000 to about $850,000 in the last year and a half.

All the same you get a lot better house for your $850,000 in Marin than you do in many areas. All the same I don't think that their property values would fall by much if at all. Marin is almost a bargin, considered properties elsewhere. It could be worse.

For instance:

There is a $750,000 house around the corner from me (in Los Angeles), which is kinda nice (not great, but decent).

But across the street the neighbors put two huge lion statues on the posts of their bungalow porch. It is really vile. The tenement single bungalow appt's aren't really nice either, but at least you get a variety of neighbors in the course of a year, and they don't decorate with statues.

Then there's my neighbors who paved their front yard with linoleum tiles which have been subsequently water damaged. Then next to them, the people who have an old car with broken windows parked in front of the house.

This still isn't as bad as the urinal on the front porch a few blocks from here.

This area is being built up with condos which run from the high $300's to 1.5 million. These are adjacent to a real housing project and a halfway house for insane homeless people.

As far as I am concerned, they can bulldoze my neighborhood and build more condos for all income levels, it couldn't be any worse than it is now.

 

[Elaina]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap Thank you LizzieMaine.

 

[reetpleat]

Please do try to keep in mind that "the poor" aren't a monolithic group that exist to be generalized and kept in their place by those who've made their piles. In every class of people you'll find good and bad, quiet law-abiding citizens and drunken, drug-using louts -- the ultimate quality of a person's character has, as far as I've experienced in my own life, absolutely zero to do with the size of their bank account or the neighborhood where they live.

I've lived in "poor neighborhoods" most of my life. And it never hurt me any.

Of course it is never good to prejudge individuals based on race or calss or other factors like that, still, there is no denying that if you want to be safe from problems, drugs, theft, etc you will be better off in a wealthy neighborhood. Let's not be unrealistic. If poor people are just as law abiding as wealthy, why are the poor parts of town so crime ridden?

Of course there is the occasional rich punk that breaks into a few houses, but that is the exception.

God knows, I grew up poor and am not so rich now. And we were good people. But the odds are greater of finding criminals amongst poopr people than rich.

 

[Roger]

This Sotelo guy is a jerk. A complete embarrasment to the Portuguese community. How greedy can one man get? Build the homes.:rage:

 

[Mojito]

We have a very different sort of problem in my neighbourhood, since it became gentrified.

The family bought into the area before I was born, back when it was a place for holiday homes by the beach, as no one wanted to live that far from the city. The exclusive mansions were further up the coast. All my folks wanted was a place by the sea. Among our neighbours was a plumber who made good and built up his business, and a chap who had worked as a switchboard operator for a telecommunications company. It was all pretty middle of the road. My parents both worked to afford the lifestyle we had, over the years adding extensions and improvements as they progressed in their careers.

Then the money started rolling into the neighbourhood. Vast palaces of glass and steel went up everywhere, and the bushland disappeared. And they were occupied for about 5 minutes before the owners over-extended and had to sell up...the house across the road, built only in 1989, gets sold and re-sold almost yearly. Another chap bought an older style bungalow, fought with all his neighbours to get zoning permission to build cathedral high ceilings, then the moment it was approved by council sold the house on. Meanwhile, the council rates go ever-higher. Their kids get territorial about "their" beach, fighting for the best surf breaks, and spray obscene graffiti on the beach tracks to warn off non-locals. I often wonder how they would regard friends of ours who have visited the area since before they were even born.

Our land alone is now worth somewhere in the 7 figures. Amazingly, even celebrities have discovered this little part of the world - one of the biggest rock stars in the world spent last summer staying in our street with a friend, and another high-profile Oz entertainer bought a house around the corner.

I'd love to have the Habitat for Humanity crowd build some houses in our street. I'd love to have some people who have their own physical labour invested in their homes around us. They might have more stake in our community than these folks who just come in, splash wads of cash, then zip out with no interest in our neighbourhood other than grumbling about "blow ins" using "their" beach.

 

[Lincsong]

Oh come on, they want to build four little houses and 3 big ones.

I think the problem the residents have is that the "wrong sort of people" might move in. You know--ones without mid-six figure incomes. This confirms my suspicion that Marin county is one of the snobbiest places on earth. The people there are acting like they are building a 1,000 unit condo for illegal immigrants or something.

It isn't like having 4 non-rich families living there is going to destroy the neighborhood. The only problem I can see at all is that they only have single car garages. I feel suburbs need more parking than that.

Lincsong, aren't you from the Marin area? I'm not saying this is you, but it seems that every time I meet someone from there, they say "I am from Marin" and then pause and strike a little pose where you are supposed to gush over how wonderful they are and how beautiful it is and the like.

You've got that right. I happen to live south of Oakland but what you say describes the San Francisco Bay Area Snobs. As soon as you meet them the first words out of their mouths are; "I live in Marin County. I live in Lafayette. I live in Montclair. etc. then the pose then the follow up statement; "I have a degree from Cal. I have a degree from St. Mary's. I have a degree from Stanford. My spouse has his degree from USF. etc. I grew up here and we had teachers in high school who constantly had to remind us students that they lived in Montclair or graduated from Stanford.

Now back to the article. Sotelo probably paid about $13,000 for his house in 1955. It's probably less than 1800 square feet and the market rate is about $900,000 give or take a $100,000. Marin County is the reason why home prices are so absurd in California. That County started all the land use regulations back in the mid 1960's and everyone else followed suit. The "No Growth" mentality causes home prices to rise not because there are lines of U-Hauls on I-80 and I-10 of people moving to California.

Now if Sotelo's house was in Phoenix or Las Vegas it would probably fetch no more than $250,000. These Habitat homes are for a family of four with a household income of $56,000. That could be a welder, truck driver, or auto body painter with a stay at home wife and two kids. Or it could be a couple where one spouse is an insurance claims adjuster and the other an office clerk. So we're not talking really poor 5th generation welfare cases.

This bit about not wanting certain elements moving in. Well let's take a look at the recently sentenced California murderer Scott Peterson; his father is a successful San Diego businessman who drives a Jaguar. Scott went to an exclusive private Roman Catholic High School. Daddy bought Scott and Laci the house in Modesto and was helping them make payments. Laci didn't work and I doubt Scott made more than $56,000 selling fertilizer so his Dad must have been paying a good chunk of the bills. But all that good high class upbringing didn't prevent him from being a murderous scumbag.

 

[Elaina]

Dunno. I grew up in an affluent neighboorhood where a friend of mine died and for 10 years I was subjected to the rantings of a grief stricken woman about the unfairness I lived and her son didn't. Just as many girls had illegitmate babies in High school as Oak Cliff (a notoriously poor neighboorhood in Dallas) and my baby sister got called a bitch on a regular basis by people who supposedly had class and money, because she was a kid and played outside.

I live in a working poor area. The worst thing I have ran across is a lady that talks to herself (but watches the kids and makes sure she knows the cars comining in and out) and the lady that made her kids fat by not making them play, and is uber proud of her mustache, but is probably one of the nicest people I've ever met.

I don't think this is a question of poor=crime but who has more money and education getting soiled by someone who may possibly have to work hard for their money.

 

[Lincsong]

Elaina is crazy.

Uber proud of her moustache?????? Elaina!!!!! Stop it, your killing me.lol lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

I had the experience of working for eight and a half years as a reporter in a very upscale town -- probably the most-upscale town in Maine, in fact. It was a very eye-opening experience, to say the least -- the whole gamut of depradations normally associated with the wrong side of the tracks were all there. Drugs, alcoholism, prostitution, domestic violence, teen suicides, you name it -- it was all happening, but nobody wanted to talk about it in public for fear of ruining the town's image.

By pretending it didn't exist, by saying it was stuff that happened only to "those people", the local Brahmins were able to convince themselves that there really was a difference between some junkie shooting up in an alley and an investment banker tooting coke up a rolled $100 bill. And one of the reasons I got out of that business is because I got tired of humoring them. Us poor folks may be a lot of things, but at least we're not hypocrites.

 

[Feraud]

Like I said in an earlier comment, rich and poor are the flip side of the same coin. Do you want to live and raise children in a decent neighborhood? Look for the hard working middle class.

 

[reetpleat]

I had the experience of working for eight and a half years as a reporter in a very upscale town -- probably the most-upscale town in Maine, in fact. It was a very eye-opening experience, to say the least -- the whole gamut of depradations normally associated with the wrong side of the tracks were all there. Drugs, alcoholism, prostitution, domestic violence, teen suicides, you name it -- it was all happening, but nobody wanted to talk about it in public for fear of ruining the town's image.

By pretending it didn't exist, by saying it was stuff that happened only to "those people", the local Brahmins were able to convince themselves that there really was a difference between some junkie shooting up in an alley and an investment banker tooting coke up a rolled $100 bill. And one of the reasons I got out of that business is because I got tired of humoring them. Us poor folks may be a lot of things, but at least we're not hypocrites.

Well, you are rightthat you will find neglect of children, drug use, divorce, lack of morals etc amongst the rich. And they are no better than anyone else. But you do not usually have to worry about the coke snorting stock broker next door breaking into your house to feed his habit.

Now that someone mentioned that the HFH homes are for people earning $56K a year, I have a different opinion. A working family would probably make a fine neighbor. And I have little sympaty for someone who felt they were not socially good enough to live in their neighborhood. My concern would only be about long term poverty, not working families.

 

[Lincsong]

I had the experience of working for eight and a half years as a reporter in a very upscale town -- probably the most-upscale town in Maine, in fact. It was a very eye-opening experience, to say the least -- the whole gamut of depradations normally associated with the wrong side of the tracks were all there. Drugs, alcoholism, prostitution, domestic violence, teen suicides, you name it -- it was all happening, but nobody wanted to talk about it in public for fear of ruining the town's image.

By pretending it didn't exist, by saying it was stuff that happened only to "those people", the local Brahmins were able to convince themselves that there really was a difference between some junkie shooting up in an alley and an investment banker tooting coke up a rolled $100 bill. And one of the reasons I got out of that business is because I got tired of humoring them. Us poor folks may be a lot of things, but at least we're not hypocrites.

Good point there Lizzie. Over in this little gritty burg I grew up in, back in the late 1950's and early 1960's there were spouse swapping parties going on up in the hills and in the flats. They didn't care whose house keys they pulled out of the hat. Probably the same thing was going on in Sotelo's neighborhood back in 1958. Some of the biggest pot heads and drunks in high school came from well to do families. If you wanted to get drunk on the weekend you went to a house party in the hills. If it weren't for their Dad's business they'd be lucky to make it past entry level oil changer at Lube & Go.

I wonder, what Sotelo did for a living? That would be really interesting. Because if this guy was some civil servant working for the County or State and he doesn't want a Truck Driver living with him there's only one word; HYPOCRITE!

 

[moustache]

I deal with Habitat for Humanity almost daily in my area.Have been for a long time being i sell building materials.And i will say that sometimes the planning for WHERE the homes go certainly is not always done properly.We have a tract of $500,000 homes close to my workplace and HFH wanted to put 5 $150,000 homes right in the middle.THAT is bad planning and did not go well with the residents.It was not only the thought of "low income" that did it but ,in reality,each market area has it's style and they would have stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb.
Eventually the planners found an area and it worked fine.But they were in such a rush to get the houses built that passion and fervor overran the logic of location.

And as one who deals with zoning laws and restrictions daily,i can understand some of what the Marin area folks mean.

JD

 

[Lincsong]

It's GREED pure and simple.

Good point Moustache. However in Vancouver there is a BIG difference between a $500,000 house and a $150,000 house. In Marin County these existing 50 year old homes that are selling for $900,000 would be comparable to the $150,000 Vancouver homes. Marin County residents have abused arcane zoning laws to artificially inflate the value of their homes. If these people were so concerned about "protecting" their street then why didn't these cheapskates buy the land to begin with and keep it vacant? If they're so concerned about quality of life, then why are they infringing on HFH private property rights? It seems as though they want it all for themselves; artificially inflated home values, and someone else's paid for "open space". These existing homes are 50 year old wood framed houses less than 1800 square feet. The FOUR houses in question are 1400 square feet, not a huge difference.

 

[Quigley Brown]

In the area where I live McMansion neighborhoods are sprouting up next to farms that have been there for generations and now they're are complaining about the cow smells.

 

[Zemke Fan]

If you can't stand the smell...

... get out of the pasture!

 

[Roger]

These are the types of people who want someone else to pay for their lifestyle. These are the types who put their kids names on the homes and they then plead poverty so the government will pay for their live-in caretaker. "oh I have to leave something for my lazy, good for nothing kids and grandkids.":rage: These people are leeches. Build the homes.

 

[The Wingnut]

Lincsong, aren't you from the Marin area? I'm not saying this is you, but it seems that every time I meet someone from there, they say "I am from Marin" and then pause and strike a little pose where you are supposed to gush over how wonderful they are and how beautiful it is and the like.

Ah, Marin County, our neighbors to the south...

*SPIT*

The granola-chomping, Birkenstocks-wearing, tie-dye loving, Subaru and Volvo driving, wild-eyed socialist stereotype exists for a reason, many fine examples thereof in the 1/4 million population of Marin County. Strange dichotomy it is that the 'free love' and socially communal mindset would live in such close proximity or even be a source of such Machiavellian attitudes.