Need hat advice

[Courier Six]

Oh, I just dislike the leather hat they gave Marston. Don't think it's historically accurate.

I don't think I can comfortably wear a leather hat, but like the shape. Seems like you'd overheat easily in leather and I don't know how durable they would be.

It sounds like Rick at Phoenix is your man. The first hat Rick built for me was intended to be a beater/work/woods hat. Western-weight beaver felt, and it has stood time, weather, and wear extremely well so far.

Here's the link where I reviewed the hat, if you're interested:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/phoenix-hat-company.93410/page-10#post-2452754

Rick has built two more beaver hats for me since this one, and they keep getting better. And he's our next-door neighbor, too, from over in East Tennessee!

Good luck,
Regan

That's a very nice looking hat and glad it served you well. I sent him an email with my musings over this idea along with a few photos for reference along with photos of my current wool crushable I used in the snow that I'm not much of a fan of. It's definitely intended to be a field hat to take a beating, but still feel comfortable. East Tennessee was a nice place to visit and went there for work last year. If only I knew.

Ha, found it. The list of custom hat shops is:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/hat-stores-a-list.31181/

Later

Thank you for the list. I'm currently scanning through it.

 

[J Williams]

Oof, don't get me started on the Red Dead hats....

https://thelastbestwest.com/shop/cowboy-hats/classic-cowboy-hats/dead-eye-marston-handmade-hat/

The ones in the new game are half decent. Of course I spent a good deal of time finding them all, including the ones you have to steal or craft.

 

[J Williams]

My two cents is either a custom western weight hat or an Akubra. If you do a little bit of reading here changing the shape of a fur felt hat is fairly easy. I would stick with something that has the dimensions you are after. Most here that wear westerns find that a 3x6 is kind of spot on which means 3" brim with a 6" open crown. I think the Akubra Bushman or a Campdraft would be a great candidate.

 

[T Jones]

I’m needing some advice. Looking to have one durable western hat in dark brown that’s mostly straight sided with very little to no taper and a 3 inch brim. Something that will be good in the rain, snow, hiking, working outside (when I visit my dad). I looked at the heritage felt Akubra Overlander which is like the snowy river in Dark Fawn. I also spoke to John Penman back in the summer about a beaver felt hat and he was real helpful, but I ended up having transmission issues in my Jeep Wrangler so the hat got put on hold.

I’d like a hat band like John Marston’s from the Red Dead Redemption games with the Grommets (pictured below). I actually really like the overall profile and brim shape of his hat. Just wish it was dark brown. Who would you recommend for making the hat band?

I travel a lot and I am pretty sentimental. I like the idea of having a hat grow old with me like Indiana Jones did with his.
When something of mine breaks I try to repair it, but I try to maintain everything so nothing falls to pieces in the first place. I’m 31 and my style hasn’t changed much in ages. I pretty much use my Custom Magnoli Leather Jacket and my filson briefcase I got in college for everywhere along with my old Frye harness boots and some Alden Indy’s I saved up for. I try not to be wasteful or have too much clutter.

Also pictured below: the heritage felt Akubra Overlander. I like it’s look but wish the dent was more shallow. I don’t want the top of the hat touching my head.

Apart from an Akubra or getting a custom from John Penman, is there anyone else I should look into? Thank you all for the help.

One of my own conversion creations with the dimensions you're looking for, although this western may not be the style and color you're after. This is a '50s No.1 Quality Stetson that I sized up from a 6 5/8 to a 7 1/4. I blocked this one on a very vertical sided block, no taper. The brim is 3 1/4, just a tad wider than you're looking for, but close.

Before:

 

[Courier Six]

I appreciate all the input you all have given me. Humanshoes has been listening to my ideas and hopefully I’m not annoying him too much. I’m not really well versed in the subject or the best as wording for everything. Which is embarrassing to admit since I have an English Degree.

How should a hat sit on my head or does it depend on the style?

My current crushable Stetson front slopes back at like a 45 degree angle.
I didn’t know if hats in a style similar to the Snowy River, cattleman, and such angle just slightly back when resting on the head.

It feels like it my current hat tapers or is angled inward in the back as well as the sides.

 

[Frunobulax]

I appreciate all the input you all have given me. Humanshoes has been listening to my ideas and hopefully I’m not annoying him too much. I’m not really well versed in the subject or the best as wording for everything. Which is embarrassing to admit since I have an English Degree.

How should a hat sit on my head or does it depend on the style?

My current crushable Stetson front slopes back at like a 45 degree angle.
I didn’t know if hats in a style similar to the Snowy River, cattleman, and such angle just slightly back when resting on the head.

It feels like it my current hat tapers or is angled inward in the back as well as the sides.

All I can say is, whatever you are comfortable with. Some like low, some like high, some tilt, etc. Personally, with the number of hats that I've accumulated, I've gotten used to different fits. Some sit higher than others, Homburgs look like they sit higher because of the upturned brim.

The front-to-back slope is called "the rake." If you are used to pre-formed hats, then you take what the factory gives you. However, vintage and other open crown hats (did not come with a factory pressed crease) allow the wearer to fashion a crease he likes. Some like a rake, others, not so much.

The best advice is not to stress. If the hat is comfortable and you like the way it looks on you, be happy!

 

[The Renegade Time Lord]

What do you guys think is better accuracy-wise between a custom rabbit Raiders from Penman and one of Herbert Johnson’s reboot Raiders rabbit in everyone’s personal opinion?

 

[jlee562]

What do you guys think is better accuracy-wise between a custom rabbit Raiders from Penman and one of Herbert Johnson’s reboot Raiders rabbit in everyone’s personal opinion?

HJ hands down. Honestly Penmans are hit and miss for me with the Raiders look. Sometimes they look great, but every now again, there are ones that - IMHO - look like a caricature of the Indy hat.

Every HJ I've seen, on their insta or on COW, looks great.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

HJ hands down. Honestly Penmans are hit and miss for me with the Raiders look. Sometimes they look great, but every now again, there are ones that - IMHO - look like a caricature of the Indy hat.

Every HJ I've seen, on their insta or on COW, looks great.

Curious. Is the issue with Penman the dimensions, shape, quality, or the way it’s been creased? I’ve been thinking about a non-Indy Penman, but it’s hard to take the gamble when there are other hatters that I know I’ll love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jlee562]

Curious. Is the issue with Penman the dimensions, shape, quality, or the way it’s been creased? I’ve been thinking about a non-Indy Penman, but it’s hard to take the gamble when there are other hatters that I know I’ll love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It's not at all an issue with John's workmanship per se. His skills as a hatter are top notch. Particularly clean tacking stitches and ribbon work.

And to be fair, this is the kind of detail that might only be apparent from having spent hours and hours looking at the Indy hat. The "correct" block has always been kind of a mystery and different hatters have tweaked their own blocks in search of "the" Raiders look.

I think the best analogy I can make is like making a drawing in pencil and then trying to duplicate it with a felt tip marker. It's just a teensy bit big all around. The part that looks off to my eye are the 'humps' formed by the center crease. I also think it's more particular to the "Streets of Cairo" hat which has some reverse taper (which was most likely due to felt shrinkage/prop dept distressing). Some hats just look like they have a weird mushroom top bread loaf look going on.

HJ believes they've found "the" block and are now working from duplicates of the original. There's still some noise in pockets of the Indy community, but to my eye, it pushes all the buttons.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

It's not at all an issue with John's workmanship per se. His skills as a hatter are top notch. Particularly clean tacking stitches and ribbon work.

And to be fair, this is the kind of detail that might only be apparent from having spent hours and hours looking at the Indy hat. The "correct" block has always been kind of a mystery and different hatters have tweaked their own blocks in search of "the" Raiders look.

I think the best analogy I can make is like making a drawing in pencil and then trying to duplicate it with a felt tip marker. It's just a teensy bit big all around. The part that looks off to my eye are the 'humps' formed by the center crease. I also think it's more particular to the "Streets of Cairo" hat which has some reverse taper (which was most likely due to felt shrinkage/prop dept distressing). Some hats just look like they have a weird mushroom top bread loaf look going on.

HJ believes they've found "the" block and are now working from duplicates of the original. There's still some noise in pockets of the Indy community, but to my eye, it pushes all the buttons.

Thank you, Jared. I’ll give the HJ a closer look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[The Renegade Time Lord]

It's not at all an issue with John's workmanship per se. His skills as a hatter are top notch. Particularly clean tacking stitches and ribbon work.

And to be fair, this is the kind of detail that might only be apparent from having spent hours and hours looking at the Indy hat. The "correct" block has always been kind of a mystery and different hatters have tweaked their own blocks in search of "the" Raiders look.

I think the best analogy I can make is like making a drawing in pencil and then trying to duplicate it with a felt tip marker. It's just a teensy bit big all around. The part that looks off to my eye are the 'humps' formed by the center crease. I also think it's more particular to the "Streets of Cairo" hat which has some reverse taper (which was most likely due to felt shrinkage/prop dept distressing). Some hats just look like they have a weird mushroom top bread loaf look going on.

HJ believes they've found "the" block and are now working from duplicates of the original. There's still some noise in pockets of the Indy community, but to my eye, it pushes all the buttons.

Then what’re your thoughts on Penman’s Adventurebilt Legacy which apparently has the same block shape as the current Herbert Johnson’s according to this video?

 

[jlee562]

Then what’re your thoughts on Penman’s Adventurebilt Legacy which apparently has the same block shape as the current Herbert Johnson’s according to this video?

Right on cue, here comes the aforementioned noise...

I don't really put that much stock in that video. There's nothing verifiable about any of the claims in the video. Who is C. O'Keefe and why is this his one upload? Can you verify that's Steve's block? I seem to recall that he did not allow his block maker to sell duplicates (Penman not withstanding). I also don't think it's particularly convincing to put a blocked hat back over a block and just call it day because "look ma, no air pockets!" Does the felt not have some tension when pulled over a proper sized block?

as far as "recasting," that's trying to project a modern terminology and concept on an archaic manufacturing technique. As we have seen elsewhere, 'back in the day' the popular styles of the leading makers were duplicated without a second thought, even including the same name. You could buy a Stetson Carlsbad, or you could Miller Carlsbad. So what does "recasting" even mean in this context?

There's no particular reason to believe that the original HJ block would have been anything remarkable. It's not as if we have anything that shows HJ had custom crafted blocks for the Poet. It was most likely a novel combination of blocking and flanging they came up with. But they would have just grabbed a block off their rack which itself would have been just one of many identical blocks.

Moreover, if Steve's goal was to capture the Raiders look, why is this being framed as "HJ stole the block" and not "hey actually Steve got it right!" Are you confident that minor variations in blockshape would be apparent through the layer of felt on the medium-shot video you're watching on youtube?

Let's take a hypothetical. Suppose Steve tinkered with a block, sanding here, or building up with wood putty there. Then had a set made up. Let's also say - again hypothetically - that his block was just a few micrometers off of the HJ block.

Do you think the "test" in the video above would illuminate the hypothetical differences in blocks? I don't have any confidence that it would.

I don't have a reason that you should not buy a Penman. I only have a reason why I would pick the HJ...well, two because the HJ uses FEPSA felt.

 

[The Renegade Time Lord]

Right on cue, here comes the aforementioned noise...

I don't really put that much stock in that video. There's nothing verifiable about any of the claims in the video. Who is C. O'Keefe and why is this his one upload? Can you verify that's Steve's block? I seem to recall that he did not allow his block maker to sell duplicates (Penman not withstanding). I also don't think it's particularly convincing to put a blocked hat back over a block and just call it day because "look ma, no air pockets!" Does the felt not have some tension when pulled over a proper sized block?

as far as "recasting," that's trying to project a modern terminology and concept on an archaic manufacturing technique. As we have seen elsewhere, 'back in the day' the popular styles of the leading makers were duplicated without a second thought, even including the same name. You could buy a Stetson Carlsbad, or you could Miller Carlsbad. So what does "recasting" even mean in this context?

There's no particular reason to believe that the original HJ block would have been anything remarkable. It's not as if we have anything that shows HJ had custom crafted blocks for the Poet. It was most likely a novel combination of blocking and flanging they came up with. But they would have just grabbed a block off their rack which itself would have been just one of many identical blocks.

Moreover, if Steve's goal was to capture the Raiders look, why is this being framed as "HJ stole the block" and not "hey actually Steve got it right!" Are you confident that minor variations in blockshape would be apparent through the layer of felt on the medium-shot video you're watching on youtube?

Let's take a hypothetical. Suppose Steve tinkered with a block, sanding here, or building up with wood putty there. Then had a set made up. Let's also say - again hypothetically - that his block was just a few micrometers off of the HJ block.

Do you think the "test" in the video above would illuminate the hypothetical differences in blocks? I don't have any confidence that it would.

I don't have a reason that you should not buy a Penman. I only have a reason why I would pick the HJ...well, two because the HJ uses FEPSA felt.

What’s FEPSA felt?

 

[belfastboy]

What’s FEPSA felt?

A top quality fur felting manufacturer based in Portugal. Many EU hatters use FEPSA felt but their minimum quantities make it difficult for individual North American custom hatters to access. NA hatters largely use Winchester felts out of Tennessee.

 

[jlee562]

What’s FEPSA felt?

There are three major sources for felt that almost all custom hatters use. Winchester, Tonak, and FEPSA. Also referred to as "Portuguese beaver" by Penman and others. FEPSA is regarded by many as the premiere felter in the world today. Their most famous client is Optimo hats. The felts have an exceptionally soft hand and are very shapeable. They also have a unique array of colors that are well dyed.

 

[belfastboy]

There are three major sources for felt that almost all custom hatters use. Winchester, Tonak, and FEPSA. Also referred to as "Portuguese beaver" by Penman and others. FEPSA is regarded by many as the premiere felter in the world today. Their most famous client is Optimo hats. The felts have an exceptionally soft hand and are very shapeable. They also have a unique array of colors that are well dyed.

I have 2 FEPSA hare felt hats that are very good quality. But I have yet to track down the elusive beaver felt from FEPSA as I refuse to pay Optimo's outrageous prices. It is on my tracking list and one day, with patience, will score one. My Tonak felts, in hare/rabbit offer, IMHO, the best value in today's market. In the hands of a good hatter they make a great hat.

 

[The Renegade Time Lord]

Right on cue, here comes the aforementioned noise...

I don't really put that much stock in that video. There's nothing verifiable about any of the claims in the video. Who is C. O'Keefe and why is this his one upload? Can you verify that's Steve's block? I seem to recall that he did not allow his block maker to sell duplicates (Penman not withstanding). I also don't think it's particularly convincing to put a blocked hat back over a block and just call it day because "look ma, no air pockets!" Does the felt not have some tension when pulled over a proper sized block?

as far as "recasting," that's trying to project a modern terminology and concept on an archaic manufacturing technique. As we have seen elsewhere, 'back in the day' the popular styles of the leading makers were duplicated without a second thought, even including the same name. You could buy a Stetson Carlsbad, or you could Miller Carlsbad. So what does "recasting" even mean in this context?

There's no particular reason to believe that the original HJ block would have been anything remarkable. It's not as if we have anything that shows HJ had custom crafted blocks for the Poet. It was most likely a novel combination of blocking and flanging they came up with. But they would have just grabbed a block off their rack which itself would have been just one of many identical blocks.

Moreover, if Steve's goal was to capture the Raiders look, why is this being framed as "HJ stole the block" and not "hey actually Steve got it right!" Are you confident that minor variations in blockshape would be apparent through the layer of felt on the medium-shot video you're watching on youtube?

Let's take a hypothetical. Suppose Steve tinkered with a block, sanding here, or building up with wood putty there. Then had a set made up. Let's also say - again hypothetically - that his block was just a few micrometers off of the HJ block.

Do you think the "test" in the video above would illuminate the hypothetical differences in blocks? I don't have any confidence that it would.

I don't have a reason that you should not buy a Penman. I only have a reason why I would pick the HJ...well, two because the HJ uses FEPSA felt.

Would you say that the AB block is closer shaped to the HJ than the Penman one in your opinion?

 

[jlee562]

Would you say that the AB block is closer shaped to the HJ than the Penman one in your opinion?

I don't really have an educated opinion on the three specific blocks other than my perceptions of some of John's Raiders hats above. I understand he apparently has two slightly varied blocks depending on beaver or rabbit.

 

[campbell166]

Hello , I live in the UK and anyone wearing a hat other than a baseball cap or flat cap stands out amongst the crowd
For the last 2 years I have been wearing trilbies ( approx 5 cm brim ) and as far as I am aware no-one has made any unpleasant comments
However for my birthday my wife surprised me with a fedora....it's light weight and soft but the brim and crown seem huge compared to my trilbies
I just hope that I can get used to wearing it.... admittedly it's far more comfortable.....but I feel very conscious of it
Any advice guys ?