Necktie Knots

[Feraud]

So if folks are tie knot-zis, why would anyone bother to reply?
Who wants to talk to a brick wall?

No, I've actually found this to be a quite common viewpoint here. The tie knot-zis have been on me about this for weeks now.

 

[Senator Jack]

Perhaps stating your height would help. As I've noted, I'm 5' 7". Mens ties, even vintage ones, are ususally what? 53" - 57". For a man of my height and neck size, a four-in-hand is usually out. If I do go with a four-in-hand then I have to tuck the slack into my shirt, and I hate having to tuck the slack into my shirt! I like both ends to come out about even and rest at the top of my buckle and the only way to do this to tie a double windsor.

Okay, why am I adamant about this? Because I hate seeing bad information passed along. Some newbie who's my height will come along and leave here thinking that he should only use a four-in-hand or he's going to have a huge knot.

NOTE: IF THE GREAT UNWASHED WILL STOP CALLING VODKA AND VERMOUTH A MARTINI, THEN I'LL AGREE TO STOP CALLING A WINDSOR A DOUBLE WINDSOR.

 

[Rafter]

It has been my understanding that size and shape of knot should play an inverse relationship to face shape.
So, if you have a huge wide head, you should have a small skinny knot.
And if you have a long narrow head, you should have a hefty wide knot. This is to create balance. Would anyone care to disagree that this is the general rule?

I tend to think that the opposite is true.
A wide hefty knot makes a narrow head appear longer.
And a small knot makes a wide head larger.

Another factor to take into consideration is the lining and material of the tie.
If you go with a small knot you need less bulk.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

knot-zis . . . that's pretty good. I like it.

I'm one for all kinds of knots. I've never met anyone for whom one knot, and one only, was the best (for example, SVB, i think you look just as good with a Windsor as with FIH - the windsor certainly doesn't look bad, as some suggest).

The only thing i've found that works for deciding the knot type is the shirt collar. Harmony in the angles created by the knot and collar is the only thing i worry about - this is why i think Prince Chas's knots look bad; the tiny FIH just doesn't harmonise with his super spread collar . . . a Windsor would work better. He looked much better in the 60s with a FIH with standard skinny semi-spread shirt collar.

bk

 

[Jovan]

On most men, I've seen little need for anything beyond the four in hand, Prince Albert, or half-Windsor. But I personally think smaller knots are more attractive. [huh]

Now, we aren't trying to be "tie knot-zis" to you, Stanley. What we've been trying to say -- actually just outright saying -- is that the full Windsor doesn't particularly work for your face and physique. Add to that, a female poster who weighed in on it said that it distracted one's eyes from your great smile. I think that's something worth listening to from a woman!

 

[Jovan]

NOTE: IF THE GREAT UNWASHED WILL STOP CALLING VODKA AND VERMOUTH A MARTINI, THEN I'LL AGREE TO STOP CALLING A WINDSOR A DOUBLE WINDSOR.

Fair enough. Ow, my ears.

 

[Senator Jack]

Actually, I don't know how anyone wears modern ties at all. I don't own a one. Having held them in the store, I do find them bulky. Vintage ties with double windsors do not make large knots.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

what is the Prince Albert knot? i only know, well, something else called Prince Albert . . .

For the record, i plump with FIH about 50%, Pratt about 25% and Windsor about 25%. This is determined by the shirt i'm wearing on any particular day.

bk

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

I'm one for all kinds of knots. I've never met anyone for whom one knot, and one only, was the best (for example, SVB, i think you look just as good with a Windsor as with FIH - the windsor certainly doesn't look bad, as some suggest).

Perhaps this is just another example of modern misconception about style; that there even exists a one "correct" choice of collar/knot for any one person.

I believe we have discussed before that there was a much wider range of collar styles readily available during the Golden Era than the slim variety we see in most RTW today. It stands to reason that if collars were much more abundant in variety, then the corresponding knots probably were as well.

And on the knot-zis thing -- guys, I'm joking. I don't actually feel oppressed.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

that's okay. I was complimeting your joke. i hadn't heard 'knot-zis' before (hatzis? yes. knot-zis, no). It's pretty good.

bk

 

[Rafter]

I think Prince Chas's knots look bad; the tiny FIH just doesn't harmonise with his super spread collar . . . a Windsor would work better.

After all Chas is a Windsor!!
As for his 60's look. That's 40 years ago BaronKurtz. He isn't the same man he was back then. A FIH with standard skinny semi-spread shirt collar was the standard look back then for everyone.
But you do have a point regarding the collar. He shouldn't wear the "super" spreads.
Maybe if he was still married to Di, he would be making better dress decisions. Carmella isn't quite the fashion plate.

 

[Jovan]

Good to know. I still love that pun though.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Actually, the look of a thicker tie in a tightly knotted four in hand works for me. It gives it some bulk so that it can stand up a little on its own, simulating the collar bar's effect. I keep suggesting that you use a FIH with the spread collars, because I suspect alot of your modern ties are thicker and they will fill up the gap at the top of the collar collar and then flare enough to fill the collar space.
I'll agree with Baron in that Prince Charles' tie/collar combo right now doesn't work. It appears his ties don't have much lining/padding/folds in the silk, because they are too tiny for the wide spread collar. A windsor knot would suit it better considering how thin those ties appear to be.

In terms of tie knots with faces, it's case to case. My friend uses a Windsor knot and he owns that look. A smaller knot would get lost on his neck/chest. He also has a very large face, and it helps balance it out.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

that's okay. I was complimeting your joke. i hadn't heard 'knot-zis' before (hatzis? yes. knot-zis, no). It's pretty good.

bk

Yeah, yeah -- I saw that you got it. Just wanted to be clear for the others. [huh]

and thank you.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

After all Chas is a Windsor!!

Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

bk

 

[Jovan]

This discussion is moving at such rapid fire it's hard to get a word in. Like when you want to tell a great joke relating to the discussion but someone interrupts you.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

I'll agree with Baron in that Prince Charles' tie/collar combo right now doesn't work. It appears his ties don't have much lining/padding/folds in the silk, because they are too tiny for the wide spread collar. A windsor knot would suit it better considering how thin those ties appear to be.

I'm completely with you guys on this one.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

This discussion is moving at such rapid fire it's hard to get a word in. Like when you want to tell a great joke relating to the discussion but someone interrupts you.

that's wat the quote function is for.

bk

 

[Jovan]

that's wat the quote function is for.

bk

What's the fun in that?

 

[Senator Jack]

Another reason to tie a larger knot: to pull the emblem up so it shows above the gorge (or whatever you want to call it, but I call it a gorge because that's what I always heard when I worked at a habadashery, but it may be as wrong as 'Vodka Martini' for all I know, because someone said the gorge is actually the position of the notch, and to tell you the truth, though I've been buying vintage since the late 70s when it was simply old clothes, I'm really getting sick of it all within the one and a half years since joining the lounge.)

Regards,

Senator Jack: Color by DeLuxe