National Day of Prayer?

[Brian Sheridan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_observances_in_the_United_States_by_presidential_proclamation

We are free to pick and choose from this list. I don't expect everyone to agree and I wasn't trying to start anything.

We simply do not do enough for.....Wright Brothers Day.

 

[airforceindy]

This thread went in a juvenile direction very quickly, IMHO. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not terribly religious and rarely pray of my own accord. It's usually only when the folks ask if I'll say grace when visiting for the holidays. What is asinine about this is the assumption that National Day of Prayer refers strictly to prayer as it applies to Christians. It's "prayer". That means, pray to whatever deity you hold highest in your life, be it God, Buddha, Allah, or any of the scads of deities that are worshipped by American citizens of different races and cultures. To assume that the government is condoning any one of them above the others is ludicrous. Granted, Christianity is the most commonly practiced religion in the nation, and that practiced by the majority of politicians and public figures who promote this day. Fine, but tell me if you hear them saying "This is a day to pray to God, Jehovah. Not Allah, or any other. The rest of you can bugger off 'cause we're not going to endorse a special day for you". That's not it at all. No one can deny that this country was founded (not in whole but in a large part) on the principles of religious freedom and the acknowledgment that a Higher Power could make or break us as a nation. That (I believe) is what is being recognized by this federally dedicated annual 24-hour period. It is a recognition by our leadership that the United States is a nation built on the faith of it's citizens, and that, without that faith in whatever deity chosen by an individual, the nation's social structure can and will crumble.

As others have said before me, "It's just my two cents".
-Andy

 

[kampkatz]

Airforceindy says all that needs to be said in explaining the reason for the national day of prayer. Good job.

 

[Brian Sheridan]

Not to turn this into a p****ing contest, I agree with what AirForceindy wrote until this:

"...without that faith in whatever deity chosen by an individual, the nation's social structure can and will crumble."

I know several atheists and agnostics who treat people with more respect and kindness than those who pray up a storm. Believing in a "diety" does not guarentee a successful social structure anymore than the lack of faith in a "diety" will cause it to crumble. Isn't how we behave toward each other that makes or breaks it?

 

[PADDY]

FooFoogal The power of words.

Anyone take part in this today?
We had a nice town meeting.

http://www.ndptf.org/home/home.html

I'm really glad you had a nice meeting and I really appreciate the kind and welcoming thoughts and sentiments that you came to this thread with.

I'm sure our members here will have the foresight to respect your thoughts in writing in here today and answer if they too were involved and had as good a day as you, sharing some time with others

I can tell you had a good time because even from across that big pond I can feel the warmth and enthusiasm that you brought with you to the FL with your words. Thankyou for putting a spring in my step and a smile on my face today The power of prayer, being part of a community and the power of just being a nice human being

THANKYOU!!

 

[Miss 1929]

A "Day of Prayer" is just lovely. A "National Day Of Prayer" is wrong.

I think prayer is just fine for those who think it is valid, but that religion (of any kind) should never be officially recognized by our country. Protected yes, but embraced? No.

This is a secular nation, that is one of the main reasons it was founded. If you want to change the laws to make any religious activities officially sanctioned, then you are being anti-American in my opinion.

I am an atheist, and I believe it is my right to live in an atmosphere of freedom from religious oppression. And most religions eventually oppress and control their members, it is what they are designed to do. Leave me out of it!

See how it is impossible to have a religious thread and not have it turn political? If it was my lounge, religion would be banned as well as politics.

What are we here for? Vintage collecting and appreciation? Why bring up religion at all, unless in the context of collecting cassocks or something?

I also thought that Charles B was being thoughtful and respectful, and immediately was accused of being intolerant and flippant - why? It doesn't read that way at all unless you are a self-defensive religious person...

Bartenders, you'd better shut this one down before we start breaking chairs and throwing glasses...

 

[Irish4]

katrina

I do not think people really know to what extent supplies were ready and waiting for the people of new orleans. I know because I am a truck operator and the needs of the people were on trucks waiting for the city officials to decide.

 

[Feraud]

I also thought that Charles B was being thoughtful and respectful, and immediately was accused of being intolerant and flippant - why? It doesn't read that way at all unless you are a self-defensive religious person...

Say what? Do you honestly think this first post below was "thoughtful and respectful"?

No. Then again I find the idea that America has some sort of special place in God's heart because we are America to not only be the height of arrogance but also utterly asinine.

Arrogant and asinine is really thoughtful and respectful..
If the original post were about Judaisim or Muslim would the bashing have started? Ha! Me thinks not. The acceptable religious bashing apparently only goes one way.

Anytime we members want to keep this from getting political we can stop posting provacative and insulting replies.

 

[Irish4]

sorry

I guess even here we must not talk of things that might upset some.

 

[Feraud]

Accentuate the positive is the best policy.

 

[dakotanorth]

The founding fathers separated Church and State for a reason- they were reacting to a very specific condition from their recent past.
Organized religion, quite frankly, is often used as a special-interest group that reaffirms the power and authority of the government. Even the King had to be crowned by the Pope- very symbolic.
I have nothing against anyone who turns to religion for hope, strength, wisdom, insight, love, inspiration, what-have-you. I get very cautious when it becomes the foundation of a collective that is trying to prove something or make a political statement.

 

[RedPop4]

The Establishment of the "Church of the United States," with its compulsory membership, especially if you wish to accede to the throne, is riiiiiiiiiiight around the corner.
</sarcasm>

 

[Fletch]

It must be said that in America in the past decade, a large subgroup of believers has adopted a kind of clubby, "wink wink" method of acknowledging one another in public discourse - a profession of faith which is outwardly universal, but is often understood to imply certain qualities about that faith. The implication can be made simply because the subgroup is so large - and perhaps because it is implicitly favored by political trends of the recent past.

Given the preponderance of that, I can sort of understand that those of other faiths, or no faith, may feel slighted by those outward professions. True, that's somewhat unfair and prejudiced. But claiming that the outward profession of faith really is that simple and broad ignores the fact that it hasn't always been intended that way. That it hasn't been is ultimately more unfair and more prejudiced.

IMO, a National Day of Prayer shouldn't be sanctioned at all by government. Just by doing so, government gives special recognition to believers over nonbelievers. If you believe (as I do) that freedom of religion ought to include freedom from religion, then that is going too far.

 

[Foofoogal]

My 2 cents now.

I cannot even believe that last night 19 tornadoes went thru 4 states, earthquakes right and left not counting other strange weather, young men and women are dying, economy due to real estate and other factors is not the perceived best and anyone anywhere would have a problem with people praying.
I pray without ceasing but this was a more structured specific corporate gathering of cities and towns all across America.
Praying for Our World, Our Country, Our States, Our Local people. Those in authority including President, Governors, Mayors, Fire and Police and Schools including teachers.
Heard proclamations from President, Governor and Mayor.

Prayed for World Concerns, Nation, City, Children/Youth and The Future.

I just asked a simple ? and a simple yes or no would of sufficed.

 

[thunderw21]

Nope, I didn't participate in an organized National Day of Prayer. I didn't even know about it.

I did, however, participate in an unorganized day of prayer and do so every day. I am wary of highly organized religious ceremonies and groups because of what they can lead to (a worship of the ceremony or group rather than the deity). I strive for the the unorganized, unaltered original thing that my religion was meant to be: a personal experience and commitment between myself and the deity that I worship. It's all the better when myself and others like me can come together, but it's the flaunting of religion and a "better than thou" snobbery that I try to avoid (and at times I fail, as I am human).

Though, one does not need to be a religious believer to have said snobbery.

 

[Brian Sheridan]

I, for one, am not against prayer and it don't get that vibe from the other posters. Prayer helps many people through tough times and sometimes is all people have in a hard world. The concern is when it is government sanctioned or when it is just lip service.

 

[Miss 1929]

My 2 cents now.

I cannot even believe that last night 19 tornadoes went thru 4 states, earthquakes right and left not counting other strange weather, young men and women are dying, economy due to real estate and other factors is not the perceived best and anyone anywhere would have a problem with people praying.
I pray without ceasing but this was a more structured specific corporate gathering of cities and towns all across America.
Praying for Our World, Our Country, Our States, Our Local people. Those in authority including President, Governors, Mayors, Fire and Police and Schools including teachers.
Heard proclamations from President, Governor and Mayor.

Prayed for World Concerns, Nation, City, Children/Youth and The Future.

I just asked a simple ? and a simple yes or no would of sufficed.

If o you want a simple yes or no, say so. Or put up a poll. But you can't really expect FLers not to write at length!

And good for you, I totally support your right to pray as much as you like.

It's the "National" thing that gets me upset. No government interaction beyond protection is necessary or legal.

Arrogant and asinine is really thoughtful and respectful..

Well, since I agree with him, it only seemed factual to me. See, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[staggerwing]

Pray all you want, and to what, or whoever you want, for whatever you want. That's your business. But, keep your religion out of my life. That includes not enacting laws based on your religious beliefs. The problem with religion is most of it's proponents aren't content to keep their beliefs to themselves - they want to force them on the rest of us.

 

[Jovan]

I, for one, am not against prayer and it don't get that vibe from the other posters. Prayer helps many people through tough times and sometimes is all people have in a hard world. The concern is when it is government sanctioned or when it is just lip service.

+13chars

 

[airforceindy]

Not to turn this into a p****ing contest, I agree with what AirForceindy wrote until this:

"...without that faith in whatever deity chosen by an individual, the nation's social structure can and will crumble."

I know several atheists and agnostics who treat people with more respect and kindness than those who pray up a storm. Believing in a "diety" does not guarentee a successful social structure anymore than the lack of faith in a "diety" will cause it to crumble. Isn't how we behave toward each other that makes or breaks it?

Well, upon reviewing my own words, perhaps I was a bit exclusive. I should have said the lack of faith can and will CONTRIBUTE to crumbling of national social structure. It will not be the single cause of a society's downfall.

I can also appreciate the arguments that such an event as the NATIONAL Day of Prayer violates the separation of church and state. True, if the state were mandating it. It is not a mandate, but a suggestion. As a few here have mentioned, many people didn't even know about this 'day'. What does that tell you? Even if George W. Bush were to announce it in a public address, I do not believe it would constitute a government endorsement of religion, particularly any one religion. And that is what the separation of church and state is all about, is it not? So that no one religion may become the basis and eventual endorsee of a government. Everyone has the right to ignore the suggestion, and nobody will be ridiculed or persecuted for doing so, just as nobody will receive such treatment for participating.

Personally, I was raised in a strictly conservative northern Baptist church, what many would refer to as 'bible-thumping'. As I grew older, I began to see a great deal of hypocrisy in many church-going Christians; 'holier-than-thou' attitudes and elitism appeared very common among people I was taught to respect as examples of Godly living. As a man, I more or less rejected that lifestyle, instead opting to live according the solid morals I was taught rather than the human (and thus, fallible) examples given. If a man chooses to pray, I will neither obstruct nor enable, encourage or ridicule him. As an American, he is entitled to that just as I am to my own opinions. Peaceful promotion of one's own faith is fine, as long as it is done for one's self and not in behalf of a group or even a government. You or I can accept or ignore quite easily. The National Day of Prayer is not a national holiday; you don't get to stay home from work, the bank doesn't close, the mail doesn't stay at the post office. It merely a title given to a specific day to bring attention to prayer in general, whether it be directed to God or your great-great-great-great grandmother.

FooFooGal has made a point (this being her thread), and I intend to take it. If you participated, say "Yes". If not, gander at what others have written, and pass on to the next interesting thread. I won't preach my own opinions any longer on this topic.

Regards, Andy