Name Tag Placement on A2

[Speedbird]

Good point ^^^^

fftopic: Cobden, while I have your attention - BOAC/Imperial Airways tropical rig and seperately, Royal Hong Kong Police - any pointers?

 

[Cobden]

Royal Hong Kong Police I don't have any info on, I'm afraid.

IA/BOAC tropical kit, however, I have plenty! Basically, for BOAC, it really is a case of "anything goes"; however, KD bush shirts were the most common, worn with trousers and black shoes, often with a khaki or white shirt and black tie underneath. Black/navy blue cap with cloth peak and KD cover. Wings worn as on temperate uniforms. The problem, of course, is the buttons. The large type of BOAC are easy enough, but I've not seen the smaller type needed for the pockets and shoulder boards. IA buttons are also rather rare. Rank worn on Navy style shoulder boards. Shirt sleeve bush shirts with shirts underneath seem to be very common - the shirts must have had very short sleeves, mind!

Here's a pic of a pukka IA one in the BA museum (haven't visited yet, but hope too. This one is stolen from someone who has!):

I have plenty of pics of BOAC in KD's, too. Will try and scan some in. Basically the same as the above but with BOAC insignia. Also have seen RAF style KD SD jackets being worn (such as those reproduced by WPG) with shirts and ties

 

[Speedbird]

Thanks Cobbers! perhaps you could start a new thread all about commercial airline aviation uniforms & clothing?? It would be one for the girls too....

 

[Spitfire]

Is that a nametag I see there - bloody akward position! And it looks not at all like a A2...

 

[Speedbird]

Spitty - you are being unnecessary now ....

We were looking forward to your answer on why Americans loved name tags and the Commonwealth didn't?

 

[Phantomfixer]

I suspect that the English are so polite that it would never cross ones mind to steal a jacket that didn't belong to them. Whereas us Americans would take whatever wasn't nailed down, hence labeling our property.
On the more reality based side of war(and aviation in general), it is easier to read a name tag than look for identifing physical features "on a crash scene".

 

[Speedbird]

I think we are just as likely as to steal a jacket as anyone else ....

 

[Cobden]

I suspect that the English are so polite that it would never cross ones mind to steal a jacket that didn't belong to them. Whereas us Americans would take whatever wasn't nailed down, hence labeling our property.
On the more reality based side of war(and aviation in general), it is easier to read a name tag than look for identifing physical features "on a crash scene".

Actually, I suspect the jokey may have more of a relevence then you realise; I'd imagine, considering the high chance of fire in an aviation crash, that a leather name tag would be rather unreadable - especially considering USAAF personnel wore metal ID tags which would render such a secondary ID unneccessary. Which brings me to the question, how were Irvins and USAAF flight jackets stored? If the former were general held in a personal space (i.e. a locker, or ones room), there be no chance of mix ups and thus no need, and the latter if they were stored in a communal area such would be neccessary to prevent mix ups

 

[Speedbird]

you know earlier when you said they probably didn't even think of it.....

I think you were right.... I think we could be overcomplicating this ..
except ... the high altitude flight gear was bulky and many layers .... and all the pictures I have seen of Nissen huts and crew quarters seem to have a small bunk space per man with a small-ish locker and footlocker.... enough for personal effects, walking out dress, a few bits and bobs but nowhere near enough space to store the full flight rig....

????

 

[Dudleydoright]

Like I said : I stand to be corrected !

I agree that flying clothing was issued to someone BUT as I also mentioned, it was a re-issueable bit of kit once the flyer had finished with it. sure some senior officers may have had the clout to keep theirs. Perhaps due to keeping flying status even whilst flying a desk ?? If a flyer was lost on ops in teh summer of whilst wearing a flying suit the jacket would have been issued to the next guy with the same size. The less personalised the kit the better !

I've read though that if a flyer lost the kit they had to pay for it. Irvins were a very expensive and resource demanding bit of kit. Whilst I was in the Army I was issued expensive bits of kit that were issued for a specific reason / mission and then handed back afterwards. Unless on live ops when things had a habit of getting damaged or lost

as has been mentioned, Andrew will know ! I'm certainly not trying to pontificate from some academic high ground but trying to put another theory forward ......

 

[Spitfire]

Spitty - you are being unnecessary now ....

We were looking forward to your answer on why Americans loved name tags and the Commonwealth didn't?

(just trying to keep the thread on track, in my ordinary polite way)

re. why americans loved name tags...How should I ever know? I am neither American nor British. Do you know?
You are British! You should know!

And I think we are all just guessing here.
American A2 s had a nametag. Fine. Maybe it was tradition, maybe it was smart, maybe they liked it.

British flying jackets - Irvins - had none.
But many were marked with a name and os serial number inside, written by hand at the label.
Probably for two reasons:
1) in order not to be mixed up at disposal areas.
2) to help ID the person, if killed.

 

[Dudleydoright]

(just trying to keep the thread on track, in my ordinary polite way)

re. why americans loved name tags...How should I ever know? I am neither American nor British. Do you know?
You are British! You should know!

And I think we are all just guessing here.
American A2 s had a nametag. Fine. Maybe it was tradition, maybe it was smart, maybe they liked it.

British flying jackets - Irvins - had none.
But many were marked with a name and os serial number inside, written by hand at the label.
Probably for two reasons:
1) in order not to be mixed up at dispersal areas.
2) to help ID the person, if killed.

Got to agree with reason 1 spitty. Makes the most sense.
Reason 2 is probably not correct. Have you ever seen what happens to people involved in a flying accident in peacetime, let alone wartime with munitions etc ? Rarely was an dead airman removed from the aircraft compared to the number who all went down with their plane. And if he was, then his crewmates would probably know who he was. (Unlike infantry replacements on a field of battle ).

Dave

 

[Smithy]

Like I said : I stand to be corrected !

I agree that flying clothing was issued to someone BUT as I also mentioned, it was a re-issueable bit of kit once the flyer had finished with it. sure some senior officers may have had the clout to keep theirs. Perhaps due to keeping flying status even whilst flying a desk ?? If a flyer was lost on ops in teh summer of whilst wearing a flying suit the jacket would have been issued to the next guy with the same size. The less personalised the kit the better !

Dudley, it wasn't so much a case of something being reissued, it was quite often an "informal" process. There are many examples in wartime RAF pilot memoirs of pilot's kit and gear being divvied out as soon as it was thought that he had been killed. For example, Johnny Checketts complained after evading capture and escaping back to Britain after being shot down, that nearly all his kit and uniforms had been flogged by other members of his squadron. I've read of this in many accounts ranging from the Battle of France up until war's end. I think it's pretty safe to say that Irvins were personally issued but they could "end" up in different hands.

You do see Irvins which have been personally decorated on the outside but this seems to have been more common with RCAF crews and some of the allied airmen in RAF service - I have a good photo of a Norwegian pilot wearing his Irvin which has been personally adorned on the back. I can post it, if anyone is interested.

 

[Speedbird]

Please do Smithy, I always love the personalised and individualised jackets!

 

[Smithy]

Please do Smithy, I always love the personalised and individualised jackets!

Here you go Speedbird. This from a pre-show briefing of 331 and 332 Norwegian pilots.

 

[Speedbird]

Thanks, first time I've seen that!