My old 15th AAF A2, had it 30 years

[aswatland]

Well, either it has barely *but still* discernible Aero Beacon NY markings … or it doesn't.

Which ones are they on Rocketeer's jacket?

It is easy to confuse this no-name jacket with an Aero. However the rings snaps on Aeros are larger as well as other differences which are clearf from the detailed pics.

 

[rocketeer]

Hi all, under the piece of square cotton, is a label. Once upon a time it was completeley readable. I covered it as to preserve what was left of this but it did say Aero leather, Beacon NY. I may be tempted to uncover it just for you guys.
Over the years I have made made many friends and some not quite. Because I have never been a true collector in the same vein as Andrew for example. The main things I learned were about the split back collar and one piece underarm. Numbers of contracts, makers, and patches etc could be argued for 2 or three beers before I got bored and got looking for a bouffanted girl with a large chest that took my fancy i like to class myself as an enthusiast rather than a collector. I hope you can guess I dont take life too seriously.
Yes Andrew, I will try to get to a show, I enjoy Duxford but they discontinued the Jet show and wont allow the planes to fly over the crowds anymore(such as when they debuted the ME 109, remember that ) so will have to pick a good weather show.

War and Peace. Its a show in Kent UK, held every year that features masses of vehicles from all conflicts and re enactors galore. As well as the war era's it is meant to encompass the peacetime part of the between the wars and after. though to be honest world conflicts far outweigh anything peaceful. If you wish to be either in the 8th AAF or display your Waffen SS uniform collection this is the place to do it. And yes, lots of Germans do the latter. There is a massive open air swapmeet of militaria, so if you are in the UK during any July make a date with this link http://www.warandpeaceshow.co.uk/ You get people interested in everything, there was even a Japanese guy walking around but that did not go down that well with British veterans of the campaign. Vietnam is another big era covered and they also have a swing evening where all the military types try to keep their hats on while dancing, though axis forces are not allowed in.
Me? I usually wear a completely made up ensemble of gear and an old Harley Davidson Riders cap.
Johnny T

 

[Peacoat]

My money is on Andrew. I'm sure he has been wrong before, but probably not very many times.

 

[aswatland]

It looks as if an Aero label was added at some stage. There are pics of all the details of the no name jacket on this website:

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2detail2.html

I used to own a size 46 jacket from this contract and the details are the same. These jackets are often confused with Aeros when the label is missing!

 

[rocketeer]

I can concede to experts no problem.
How long have you guys been collectors then? Remember I'm just an enthusiast, you can walk all over me on details such as these. I've been into this stuff since about 1980.
I've got a small amount of stuff I love to show now my jacket days are relatively over, I mainly wear Aero(Scotland) civvy stuff now, got a couple of Highwayman a Barnstormer and some other stuff. I doubt I would invest in anymore A2s, I sold all my sheepskins as they were not really everyday wearable. Still keep in contact with a few collectors though, if anything comes up cheap.

Did you see Pawn Stars tonight? A guy came in with a tatty but decorated Mediterranean A2, cap and ration pack but the dealers only offered him $750 for the lot.
John

 

[ButteMT61]

I don't understand why folks sell those things to pawn brokers. I get some are desperate, but some are smart and obviously have the means to use ebay or an auction house. It almost makes me want to "pick" or open one of those places. People take pennies for very valuable stuff all the time!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't understand why folks sell those things to pawn brokers. I get some are desperate, but some are smart and obviously have the means to use ebay or an auction house. It almost makes me want to "pick" or open one of those places. People take pennies for very valuable stuff all the time!

There may be a good chance that it's just for the camera. When they switch it off..all the actors take off their makeup..go for a latte..and let the hired help do the real deals.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Possibly. I know two of the "experts" on the show - both from LA, and both indeed experts. But yeah, who knows...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Well I assume the ones on the label under the protective cotton patch, as described by rocketeer?

In the face of an anomaly, is it rational for the first assumption to be that the label was added later? Seems like flawed reasoning, to me (I don't recall, is this a Type I error?). Surely the first conclusion *before any other data is forthcoming* must be that the label is genuine and original to the jacket (we haven't yet seen the way it's attached), and that the jacket - features of - is anomalous.

Which ones are they on Rocketeer's jacket?

 

[aswatland]

Well I assume the ones on the label under the protective cotton patch, as described by rocketeer?

In the face of an anomaly, is it rational for the first assumption to be that the label was added later? Seems like flawed reasoning, to me (I don't recall, is this a Type I error?). Surely the first conclusion *before any other data is forthcoming* must be that the label is genuine and original to the jacket (we haven't yet seen the way it's attached), and that the jacket - features of - is anomalous.

There is no flawed reasoning on my part. I have seen several refurbished jackets with the wrong label applied, including recently a Poughkeepsie with a RW label applied to it. Knopf was not a sub-contractor for Aero so there was no reason for them to have applied an Aero label to their jacket! If you compare this jacket with the one on the ACME Depot website and with a GW repro it is without any doubt a no-name Knopf jacket. The collar snaps are typical of those used by Knopf as are the brown painted backs to the snaps, which are unique to this contract. I would be interested to hear why you think it is an Aero (later added label excepted).

The backs of snaps on Aero jackets were concealed by the lining.

 

[rocketeer]

Well I assume the ones on the label under the protective cotton patch, as described by rocketeer?

In the face of an anomaly, is it rational for the first assumption to be that the label was added later? Seems like flawed reasoning, to me (I don't recall, is this a Type I error?). Surely the first conclusion *before any other data is forthcoming* must be that the label is genuine and original to the jacket (we haven't yet seen the way it's attached), and that the jacket - features of - is anomalous.

Hi, I have no idea whether the label has been added previous to my ownership or not. All I know is that it was there when I bought it and I, am happy with it.
I dont think the jacket is historically important to warrant cutting the lining to find out how the label is attached unless I were selling it for a vast amount of £££$$$. It is one of those things, were the jacket a rare contract, would the decoration and patches increase or decrease the value were the label found to be wrong?
Should I meet someone more knowledgeable on these things(contacts and labels etc) I will take in what they say though I will not be removing the label. Should I ever sell the jacket this is one of those things that a more knowledgeable buyer would use on receiving this item to get some money back rather than revel in the historical value of the jacket as I have.
I really enjoy this jacket, it hangs in my wardrobe on a padded hanger, I put it on sometimes just to see if it still fits and when I wear it love the comments made from "WoW, it's really great to see an original A2 being worn" to "You should keep that laid flat in a drawer rather than wear it out or sell it to a real collector who will look after it better" Both genuine comments said to me at air shows, the latter I replied, "Whats yours? an Eastman? I've got a couple of those as well"
Hope to meet Andrew someday, seems a very knowledgeable guy, hope he enjoys his jackets as much as I have my own.
I'll stick some more of my jacket(s) pics up soon.
Johnny

 

[ButteMT61]

Bah man. Wear it if you like it. I defer on "what" it is, but as far as enjoying it vs sitting in a drawer or museum, again, bah. It's great folks do that, but I would wear one in a NY minute if I had one my size that was WWII era. More pics would be enjoyable.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

Bah man. Wear it if you like it. I defer on "what" it is, but as far as enjoying it vs sitting in a drawer or museum, again, bah. It's great folks do that, but I would wear one in a NY minute if I had one my size that was WWII era. More pics would be enjoyable.

+1 Butte. Why preserve it and not fully enjoy it? So somebody else can wear it? There are enough of them in museums. Granted I wouldn't wear it to paint, do yardwork, or work on a car. Now if it belonged to my grandfather and I wanted to pass it down as a family heirloom I would wear it sparingly. Otherwise I would give it some conditioner every so many years and enjoy wearing it. (Just my opinion.)