My New Alexander Leathers Jacket.

[Capesofwrath]

I was asked about the stitching so uploaded some close ups above. Thanks for the nice comments about the jacket.

 

[Sloan1874]

Not sure that's strictly true Craig ... many manufacturers have access to CXL Horse ... just not AL currently. Equally CXL Horse is used in many processes not just jacket manufacture.

Having seen both production processes the very best Horsehides go into manufacture of cordovan shells for shoe manufacture primarilly. Thats where the money is. The difference between those horse hides used for chrome tanned or veg tanned or CXL or any other tanning process performed at Horween are not primarilly quality driven as far as I understand it but more demand driven. I'm sure Skip or Nick can give further detail but from what I saw the grading it wasn't a " only the very best Horsehides make CXL" but rather we remove the shells and that which is left is sorted, trimmed, tanned and graded.


The difference between CXL (horse and steer) and CT is marginal and indeed Aero and others also produce jackets from CT ..... it's all about horses for jackets

I guess unless it's labelled Horween CXL FQHH then it is difficut to tell them apart. Indeed I have Aero jackets simply labelled Horsehide and not FQHH made from veg tanned struck through REALLY NICE horsehide which I rate higher than CXL and infinitely more wearable . Indeed NONE of the wartime A-2's ( as far as I can assertain) were manufactured using CXL Horsehide it's origins were in industrial applications and manufacture of gaskets ... it's only in recent times driven by Aero in the naughties primarilly ..... that it's usage in jacket manufacture came to the fore.

NONE of the vintage jackets from the 40's and 50's that I have seen appear to be made from Horween CXL ...... so it's interetsting to me that it should be so popular amongst purists. I do like it though but prefer mid weight to the Heavy FQHH and do believe the steer is a "better" leather in terms of breaking in and level of comfort ( but this is a very personal thing).

Just my tuppenthworth .....

All fair points - just to refine the Horween part further, and this is without my notes from the visit, if I recall, the front of the horse is mostly chrome, the back veg tanned. The QC of the skins is done while their in their 'blue condition' if I recall - they were doing some steer being sorted when I was there.
But to go back to your first point about "many manufacturers have access to CXL Horse" - obviously we're talking about jackets here, but try Googling for another maker using CXL horse, I think you'll find it'll bring up nada. The likes of DD and Johnston occasionally produce a few jackets made from it but that's probably come from Horween's online retail CXL FQHH, but, certainly, you'll find none coming out of Europe.
The question, therefore, is this: if Aero doesn't have an exclusive deal with Horween, why aren't the other makers that have access to regular supplies of it trumpeting this fact all over the place - ie as AL did with the CXL steer?

 

[Capesofwrath]

All fair points - just to refine the Horween part further, and this is without my notes from the visit, if I recall, the front of the horse is mostly chrome, the back veg tanned. The QC of the skins is done while their in their 'blue condition' if I recall - they were doing some steer being sorted when I was there.
But to go back to your first point about "many manufacturers have access to CXL Horse" - obviously we're talking about jackets here, but try Googling for another maker using CXL horse, I think you'll find it'll bring up nada. The likes of DD and Johnston occasionally produce a few jackets made from it but that's probably come from Horween's online retail CXL FQHH, but, certainly, you'll find none coming out of Europe.
The question, therefore, is this: if Aero doesn't have an exclusive deal with Horween, why aren't the other makers that have access to regular supplies of it trumpeting this fact all over the place - ie as AL did with the CXL steer?

I posted further up in my reply to your first ejaculation into the thread that I would imagine it's because there is a limited supply and they just can't produce enough. If that changes in the future and they had more then they'd supply them. They have no issue with AL as far as I can see and Nick Horween referenced an AL jacket which had been around the offices for a while very favorably on his blog. But you have pretty close links with Aero so why don't you ask them?

For what it's worth Aero had a piece on their leathers section singing the praises of CXL 4 oz Steerhide for ages. It was saying how much visitors loved it when they saw it and handled it so they had decided to make it more available. But I just noticed that they've changed that a bit and it now reads that they think CXL Horse is far superior blah blah blah.

Funny that....nothing to do with AL now making jackets in a lighter version of it with a fraction of the waiting time I'm sure.

 

[joeyorav]

Nice looking jacket, I love it..

 

[coloradorider]

I think it shows the stitching a bit better. I was toying with going a bit redder but with this colour hide I think this is more restrained.

View attachment 7326

Very nice color! Thanks for the pics.

 

[Plumbline]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack ..... it's a FAB jacket, suits you and a great design / fit. Wear it well

Back to Sloanies point.

I have no idea if there's any exclusive arrangement with Ken and Aero, Craig .... all I know is that other manufacturers have access and actually have produced jackets made from CXL FQHH which flies in the face of the exclusivity atatement .... indeed if I wanted some to make a jacket I'm pretty sure I could buy some ( I may not get the same rates as Aero or have access to the same volume or the same colours ... but I could state with some certainty that I could buy some CXL FQHH).

Much of Horweens output - over 10,000sqft of FQHH per week according to Nick ( Skips figure was slightly higher ) - is not into jackets. In fact all of the repro jacket manufacturers added together probably don't produce this volume. A large volume is not CXL but it does make up a fair % goes to other manufacturers ( particularly footwear ... Timberland, Wolverine even Clarks) as well as ancilliary producers (bags, wallets etc.). You've been there, therefore you know what they do and also what they produce ... the range of hides is incredible and also the final product range is stunning from footballs and baseball gloves to high end footwear.

It still doesn't answer the strange facination with jackets made from CXL .... as I stated I have NEVER seen a vintage ( 30's, 40's and 50's) jacket made from CXL .... and I've seen and handled a LOT of jackets. Nor have I seen any in any of Rin's books which look close to CXL .... so why are the purists facinated by this unique and somewhat peculiar leather which was orignially invented for industrial application. It's weird ... don't get me wrong its lovely stuff and has a quite unique hand and finish .... but I haven't seen ANY evidence that it was an authentic jacket material in the golden era.

Just my thoughts .... and this is NO reflection on Aero's fabulous products or AL's or BK's, Stu's or even JC's ..... I just find it a bit weird ... if someone has an original made from CXL I'd love to see it ???

 

[Capesofwrath]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack ..... it's a FAB jacket, suits you and a great design / fit. Wear it well

Back to Sloanies point.

I have no idea if there's any exclusive arrangement with Ken and Aero, Craig .... all I know is that other manufacturers have access and actually have produced jackets made from CXL FQHH which flies in the face of the exclusivity atatement .... indeed if I wanted some to make a jacket I'm pretty sure I could buy some ( I may not get the same rates as Aero or have access to the same volume or the same colours ... but I could state with some certainty that I could buy some CXL FQHH).

Much of Horweens output - over 10,000sqft of FQHH per week according to Nick ( Skips figure was slightly higher ) - is not into jackets. In fact all of the repro jacket manufacturers added together probably don't produce this volume. A large volume is not CXL but it does make up a fair % goes to other manufacturers ( particularly footwear ... Timberland, Wolverine even Clarks) as well as ancilliary producers (bags, wallets etc.). You've been there, therefore you know what they do and also what they produce ... the range of hides is incredible and also the final product range is stunning from footballs and baseball gloves to high end footwear.

It still doesn't answer the strange facination with jackets made from CXL .... as I stated I have NEVER seen a vintage ( 30's, 40's and 50's) jacket made from CXL .... and I've seen and handled a LOT of jackets. Nor have I seen any in any of Rin's books which look close to CXL .... so why are the purists facinated by this unique and somewhat peculiar leather which was orignially invented for industrial application. It's weird ... don't get me wrong its lovely stuff and has a quite unique hand and finish .... but I haven't seen ANY evidence that it was an authentic jacket material in the golden era.

Just my thoughts .... and this is NO reflection on Aero's fabulous products or AL's or BK's, Stu's or even JC's ..... I just find it a bit weird ... if someone has an original made from CXL I'd love to see it ???

No worries Plumb. I Don't think you've hijacked this thread. Threads are born and then have a life of their own, independent of the OP. It could have gone on to turn into a thread about alien abduction or feminist comedians for all I care. I just don't like the way certain disciples of jacket manufactures and sometimes even the management of such companies themselves come on to threads concerning other makers just to knock and sneer.

It happens in many walks of life, and a lot of small business people think the best way to make a success of their own business is to run down the opposition. In the case of leather jacket makers sneer at the quality of their hide and claim that their own is so much better and such like. I also go to hi-fi sites where arguments like that are practically endemic and flaming rows sprawl over many pages. All just basically saying that their own product, or in the case of the followers the one they own, is just so much better than anything that bunch over there make. You'd have to be deaf not to notice just how bad so and so's crappy 1970's based circuit really sounds, and so on...

They never seem to grasp just how bad it makes them look and how much of a turn off to potential customers it is.

 

[schitzo]

No worries Plumb. I Don't think you've hijacked this thread. Threads are born and then have a life of their own, independent of the OP. It could have gone on to turn into a thread about alien abduction or feminist comedians for all I care. I just don't like the way certain disciples of jacket manufactures and sometimes even the management of such companies themselves come on to threads concerning other makers just to knock and sneer.

It happens in many walks of life, and a lot of small business people think the best way to make a success of their own business is to run down the opposition. In the case of leather jacket makers sneer at the quality of their hide and claim that their own is so much better and such like. I also go to hi-fi sites where arguments like that are practically endemic and flaming rows sprawl over many pages. All just basically saying that their own product, or in the case of the followers the one they own, is just so much better than anything that bunch over there make. You'd have to be deaf not to notice just how bad so and so's crappy 1970's based circuit really sounds, and so on...

They never seem to grasp just how bad it makes them look and how much of a turn off to potential customers it is.

Yep, and the other thing that practitioners of the practices you describe fail to recognise is exactly how transparent they are. Just cos most guys on here prefer not to become entangled in discussions like this one now, doesn't mean they don't know '2 bob' when they see it. For my money the majority does

 

[Seb Lucas]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack ..... it's a FAB jacket, suits you and a great design / fit. Wear it well

Back to Sloanies point.

I have no idea if there's any exclusive arrangement with Ken and Aero, Craig .... all I know is that other manufacturers have access and actually have produced jackets made from CXL FQHH which flies in the face of the exclusivity atatement .... indeed if I wanted some to make a jacket I'm pretty sure I could buy some ( I may not get the same rates as Aero or have access to the same volume or the same colours ... but I could state with some certainty that I could buy some CXL FQHH).

Much of Horweens output - over 10,000sqft of FQHH per week according to Nick ( Skips figure was slightly higher ) - is not into jackets. In fact all of the repro jacket manufacturers added together probably don't produce this volume. A large volume is not CXL but it does make up a fair % goes to other manufacturers ( particularly footwear ... Timberland, Wolverine even Clarks) as well as ancilliary producers (bags, wallets etc.). You've been there, therefore you know what they do and also what they produce ... the range of hides is incredible and also the final product range is stunning from footballs and baseball gloves to high end footwear.

It still doesn't answer the strange facination with jackets made from CXL .... as I stated I have NEVER seen a vintage ( 30's, 40's and 50's) jacket made from CXL .... and I've seen and handled a LOT of jackets. Nor have I seen any in any of Rin's books which look close to CXL .... so why are the purists facinated by this unique and somewhat peculiar leather which was orignially invented for industrial application. It's weird ... don't get me wrong its lovely stuff and has a quite unique hand and finish .... but I haven't seen ANY evidence that it was an authentic jacket material in the golden era.

Just my thoughts .... and this is NO reflection on Aero's fabulous products or AL's or BK's, Stu's or even JC's ..... I just find it a bit weird ... if someone has an original made from CXL I'd love to see it ???

Plumb you've highlighted some points I was wonderign about too.