My ideal A-2...is it really too much to ask?

[Nighthawk]

^ Yeah, really weird.

EDIT: Did Av Togs make civie jackets as well?

NH

 

[tonyb]

Here's the link (check out the pictures):

https://www.realmccoys.co.jp/catalog/products/detail.php?product_id=2160&pg=3

I checked out the link. And then I checked out a currency converter. And then I spat out my coffee.

Yow! Am I reading this correctly?

Any idea of how well these things sell?

 

[fedoralover]

I checked out the link. And then I checked out a currency converter. And then I spat out my coffee.

Yow! Am I reading this correctly?

Any idea of how well these things sell?

Just under $2100.00 according to the converter I used. I guess somebody must buy them but it won't be me.

fedoralover

 

[Fletch]

Remember the Japanese mind. The more something costs, the more it's worth.

 

[tonyb]

I've never been in the market for one, but isn't that the most authentic, well-made reproduction A-2s cost something less than half that amount?

 

[Danny L]

Thanks for being so understanding, Danny, considering I ganked these pix right off VLJ without even asking.
Of course, they really belong to the Air Force...so...
I hope you'll consider it a tribute to your dedicated detective work!

No problem. I got permission from the history office to post them. Since they are not "mine", I will be the first one to get them out there for everyone to share. Just wish there were more out there. I can't think the lady enough at that history office for making such high quality scans.:eusa_clap

For some reason, I've really been attracted to this era of flight and flight jackets in the last year or so. Crazy when one realizes how far behind the U.S. was at this point compared to the rest of the world.

 

[Edward]

I've never been in the market for one, but isn't that the most authentic, well-made reproduction A-2s cost something less than half that amount?

Absolutely, but as Fletch says, in Japanese culture, it seems, there is a high status value in being seen to be able to pay such a high price. Fletch puts it better and more succinctly that I've ever seen anywhere else before now: "The more something costs, the more it's worth." It's the same psychological factors at work as we see in our Western designer clothing labels for the mainstream fashion market, where a very ordinary, poorly cut white T shirt is suddenly worth $50 instead of $5 because it carries the logo of Tony Hellfinger or whatever. Seems crazy to me, but it's obviously a fairly universal trend. Growing up in small town Ireland, I saw this, and the related 'brand snobbery', rife at school..... no more so than in those (in an area of high unemployment) who came from families of lower than average income, or where neither parent was in employment. [huh]

 

[tonyb]

Growing up in small town Ireland, I saw this, and the related 'brand snobbery', rife at school..... no more so than in those (in an area of high unemployment) who came from families of lower than average income, or where neither parent was in employment. [huh]

To really drift afield ...

I certainly wouldn't be the first to observe that folks who have risen (to at least some degree) from poverty are often prone to making a showy display of whatever wealth they have attained. It's a sign of insecurity, and it's perfectly understandable, considering how humans and hens just can't seem to keep themselves from establishing pecking orders.

 

[CBI]

To really drift afield ...

I certainly wouldn't be the first to observe that folks who have risen (to at least some degree) from poverty are often prone to making a showy display of whatever wealth they have attained. It's a sign of insecurity, and it's perfectly understandable, considering how humans and hens just can't seem to keep themselves from establishing pecking orders.

Does this make it an "Insecurity Aviation Togs" jacket? Oh that was bad! shakeshead

Good Wear's recent 39 Werbers are terrific pre-war looking jackets. Not the same I know but really cool!

http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/1939_Werber_03_sz46/

 

[tonypaj]

To really drift afield ...

I certainly wouldn't be the first to observe that folks who have risen (to at least some degree) from poverty are often prone to making a showy display of whatever wealth they have attained. It's a sign of insecurity, and it's perfectly understandable, considering how humans and hens just can't seem to keep themselves from establishing pecking orders.

Yeah, but all of us are insecure to some extent, even the ones who claim not to be. Rich, poor, we're all alike, we just have a different way of showing our insecurities. Some even wonder if their attire looks like costume...

 

[Fletch]

For some reason, I've really been attracted to this era of flight and flight jackets in the last year or so. Crazy when one realizes how far behind the U.S. was at this point compared to the rest of the world.

Frankly, if you're a WW2 buff, there's no real reason to be interested in this era, and a lot of reasons not to be. This was anything but the mighty arsenal of democracy. This was a great nation that, for various reasons, had reduced its armed forces (especially its army) to virtual demonstration units.

You would kind of have to care about aviation and the 20s/30s for themselves. Or about what it meant to serve in the military in an "unmilitary" era and culture. Indeed, when the military itself was rather unmilitary even by WW2 standards - let alone by today's standards.

 

[Richard Warren]

The United States was behind whom? When? In what?

 

[rgraham]

The United States was behind whom? When? In what?

Germany and Japan. Prior to WWII, which I believe the era we've been discussing. Military strength, and a will to use it.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Evident on some of these airmen is an apparent production goof that led to the left pocket riding 1/2" to 1" higher than the right...or was it done on purpose? Perhaps by a base rigger or tailor to accommodate some special piece of gear?

If you're talking about the third photo. The left pocket is not higher. There is some kind of name strip above the pocket that makes it look like it is sitting higher than the other pocket on the coat. In the second photo. The jackets with the button pocket, and zipper, are I believe, an ANJ-3 and not an A-2. The ANJ-3 will have a bi-swing back.

 

[aswatland]

If you're talking about the third photo. The left pocket is not higher. There is some kind of name strip above the pocket that makes it look like it is sitting higher than the other pocket on the coat. In the second photo. The jackets with the button pocket, and zipper, are I believe, an ANJ-3 and not an A-2. The ANJ-3 will have a bi-swing back.

All the photos posted here, apart from the one of JC is wearing, date from the early to mid 1930s. The AN-J3 dates from 1943. The jacket you describe as having a zip and button pockets is an A2 by SAT, dating from 1932. It is clear from the photo that the A-1 with the name strip above the left pocket does indeed have one pocket higher than the other. It may have been a production error or a field addition as Fletch suggests. Without the actual jacket to examine we will never know for sure.

 

[fishmeok]

How's this?
Cheers
Mark

 

[aswatland]

I think you have done a very good job of making your first A2 Mark. Well done. How about a russet horsehide 30s Werber or SAT next?

 

[Danny L]

I think the same as Andrew. You've done an outstanding job!!! Love your work. I can only imagine how difficult it is to pull this off. Love to see a SAT since no one to my knowledge is doing a authentic version. :eusa_clap

 

[fishmeok]

I would like to make a SAT, but I have no real reference to work from, it would be very very difficult to make a true copy without an original sitting right there in front of me. Not to mention getting the correct materials, etc. Fortunately John is around, if anyone can possibly do it he can. Are there any examples out there that you guys know of? Has to be the rarest of all the A-2's.

I agree that the collar is a little large- I like it that way and it is correct for period styles, but not to everyone's taste. I may tone it down a little on the next one.
Cheers
Mark

 

[aswatland]

I would like to make a SAT, but I have no real reference to work from, it would be very very difficult to make a true copy without an original sitting right there in front of me. Not to mention getting the correct materials, etc. Fortunately John is around, if anyone can possibly do it he can. Are there any examples out there that you guys know of? Has to be the rarest of all the A-2's.

I agree that the collar is a little large- I like it that way and it is correct for period styles, but not to everyone's taste. I may tone it down a little on the next one.
Cheers
Mark

Tell you what Mark, I will lend you one of my various SAT A2s for you to copy!!!!!