My custom-made Grizzly Palomino jacket

[mihai]

As I wrote in the thread with sourcing FQHH from LW, due to fit and budget constraints I decided to order at a local tailor a custom Grizzly Palomino type jacket. Along with the previous enumerated constraints there were other reasons like Aero model lacking some Grizzly specific elements like the buttoned neck strap just under the collar and having the space between the front panel and the zipper too narrow in contrast to some authentic jackets that I saw across web. It also seemed to me that LW fuller shape of the sleeves was closer to the original. Though I liked the hand-cuffs of the Aero one. It also features a HOH removable collar. Other thing I wanted was to have the jacket fully built of cowhide and on top of it (front and back) put the hair on hide(I like armor-like jackets) So it resulted in a hibrid on my taste. The price was around 380 euros everything included (1 piece horse hair on hide, 1 piece black cowhide, hd YKK, buttons, lining).
The result looks nice (not Aero, LW, Real Mc or other top ones), better than I expected, nicer in reality than the pics(due to slight geometric aberrations). It is generous cut upwards and sits on waist at belt level.

I will post pics as soon as I will be given the right to, right now unfortunately I am not allowed to do so.

 

[Metatron]

Bump for an interesting thread. Any chance of seeing those pics?

 

[feltfan]

Anyone can post pictures. You just have to post them as a link to a photo site.
Put them on Flickr.com or something like that, generate links, and post away.

Wish I thought I could get away with a Grizzly-style jacket. They are amazing.

 

[mihai]

Hi guys! Thanks for the comments.
I do not have an account still on some photo-hosting web-server. I need to open it somewhere (in about 1 hr should be ready I think) though it would have been nice to be able to post attachments here.
Purpose of this thread was to debate/get a feedback from you whether it worth to get one like this versus the ones of more established brands. Brands that I respect, love most of their products, but that is what my budget allows for the moment.

 

[mihai]

Pictures uploaded, guys!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72804369@N02/6570509845/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72804369@N02/6570509187/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72804369@N02/6570508269/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72804369@N02/6570507407/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72804369@N02/6570505355/

Sorry for the bad quality of the first 3 ones especially, they were made with a phone. In them you can see the jacket with the hair-on-horsehide collar installed.
Also in pics 2 and 3 some geometrical aberrations due to crappy lens show, the jacket being more generous cut upwards and getting narrower in the lower part to sit on the waist.

I am interested to hear comments, suggestions, even critical ones as I do not mind. I am planning to get an identical one out of black thick horsehide(Italian one) and with black-white hair-on-horsehide(I already have it, it's a bit more hairy one) and look to see what can be improved. You have lots of expertise and would be very helpful for me.

Thanks!

 

[resortes805]

Great jacket! I understand why you would block out your face due to privacy concerns, but why are your shoes/boots censored too?

 

[Tomasso]

but why are your shoes/boots censored too?

I don't think I've ever seen that.

 

[mihai]

Great jacket! I understand why you would block out your face due to privacy concerns, but why are your shoes/boots censored too?

@ A.C. Lyles
privacy reasons and the fact they have nothing to do with vintage

@resortes805 Thanks for the feedback!

The jeans in last two pictures are are Sugar Canes sc-47, not too relevant but in case someone is interested

So let me know please what you think about the jacket, what can be improved, as I could use the feedback for the next one I'm going to get made.

 

[mihai]

As you can see the person that sewed the jacket was careless and put each sleeve-cuff to the wrong sleeve. They need to be taken out and inverted. I will have it serviced in a few months. Thing was that when I placed the order I agreed that the jacket was to be ready at a specific term. When the term came it was almost to miss it was not ready . I was leaving the country and could not afford to pick it up this winter anymore. So I acknowledged to pick it up with the inverted sleeve-cuffs and to be finished-up quicker.

It's a pity that where I'm having the jackets done you get good stuff in general(the personnel is very knowledgeable ) but you need to tell specifically what you want, watch them. Although I made a 10 page document with detailed pictures, descriptions of every visual element, nice structured they were making all kind of propositions like: don't you want the collar with zipper instead of buttons, don't you want it longer to be warmer , pockets to be fitted like this to be more practical, isn't it too heavy, etc. I told them, stressed the fact that it is a vintage inspired piece of clothing, I do not care about how practical or smart looking is it, I just want it to be made strictly by the specs. Often there is the case that the whole product looks fantastic except tiny few things left that screw everything (like the cuffs in my case, that were executed quite poor), so quality is not very consistent always. It's cheaper, custom made, but you get more head-aches.

Speaking about custom made, I'm waiting my Aero B3 to arrive, see how I like it. if I am pleased and decide to order from them maybe make a short visit to their factory and get the measurements taken on that occasion.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

To be honest, the shoulders of the jacket look a little too much like a suit jacket. These type of jackets should have a natural shoulder that follows the contour of the body. Also, the collar looks a bit large (to me). Other than that, it looks well constructed.

Since you mentioned Aero, I recommend taking a look at one of their Grizzly jackets. I saw some in Toyko last year and they were very nice.

Noel

 

[mihai]

To be honest, the shoulders of the jacket look a little too much like a suit jacket. These type of jackets should have a natural shoulder that follows the contour of the body. Also, the collar looks a bit large (to me). Other than that, it looks well constructed.

Since you mentioned Aero, I recommend taking a look at one of their Grizzly jackets. I saw some in Toyko last year and they were very nice.

Noel

They do not have anything underneath (padding or stuff like this) they just follow my shoulders contour. Might look stiff due to the way the jacket is constructed: as a full leather jacket with the fur panes on top of it. It gets kind of rigid, but I like it like this. I do not like too much pliable leather and the broke-in feeling.

Yes the collar is a bit wide opened. I asked to be a little more generous so when turned upwards it covers more and the two ends overlap a little. I think I'll get it a little shortened if possible.

I must admit Aero jackets are nice, though there are some elements from vintage Grizzlys that lack: wider waist band and belt loops, wider space between fur panel and zipper, a button and a loop at zipper upper-end, a fur collar, wider sleeves. I would say that a LW Grizzly (thick horsehide) with Aero Grizzly sleeve-cuffs and hair-on-horsehide would be smokin'. But I think LW is not willing to take custom orders.
I like Aero(lovely products, good feedback, a very positive personal experience so far for me), but I must see how consistent is their horsehide. I am not after distressing, easy braking-in hides, but for more stiffer ones that make the jacket to hold better in time. The fact that Aero is 1000 and LW is 1400 is not a huge difference for me if it guarantees a jacket to wear 30-40 years from now and remaining in impeccable state.

 

[mihai]

My second Grizzly type jacket

After about an year I come back with pictures from this second Grizzly type jacket. It is supposed to be identical in size to the first one. Made of thick black horsehide that is doubled on chest and back with B/W hair on horsehide. Thick, stands vertically on it's own as you can see in the first pic. The leather/fur are Italian. I'll follow with the pictures, than I'll get more into this story.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8193959898_3a31052239_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8192876613_38ed927565_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8205/8193961194_467694befa_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8066/8192873523_2f975ebfb0_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8061/8193963344_bf80b97db7_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8482/8193964416_4d1c7351f2_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8208/8193962450_6a4afd7743_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8489/8193967806_071ce147c2_b.jpg

You may see some "waving" of the hair on horsehide esp on the back part. This is because the fur panel has a black horsehide layer(used also for the rest of the jacket) underneath. The same goes for the front part.

If you have questions, comments, shoot.

 

[mihai]

Technical details

So the jacket is made of Italian black FQHH(2 quarters) + a whole piece of hair on horsehide. The hardware: heavy duty YKK brass zipper + generic brass belt, eyelets for the belt and plastic black buttons. The lining is some quilted slightly rubberized fabric.
I like the jacket as it is heavy, stiff, like an armor. The leather is close to Lost Worlds FQHH based on thickness/finish. The finish is consistently coated opposed to FQHH used by Aero that resembles more (finish and consistency) to the one of 50s vintage US horsehide jackets (I own 2 of them). The making price was of about 400 euros. Not so cheap.
There are some Grizzly features that did not get as I asked: on the front the leather band between zipper and fur panel is too narrow, the fastening leather strip on the zipper top was not added(they complained leather was too stiff), not enough fur for a removable collar.

 

[mihai]

And now the jacket making story...

Opposed to the many happy/trouble-free experiences that abound over here, mine was a bad one.
As the first jacket, this was also produced in the same leather manufacture in Romania. Before the 2 jackets I had them also doing some alterations to some jackets, some paint-job with good results. Though, ever since the beginning, I noticed some lack of professionalism: several last-moment postponements, all kind of stories as explanation (the machinist on vacation...). I dealt since the beginning with a lady(that was some kind of interface to the clients like Amanda@Aero; that lady that was making the designs, conception, supposedly worked in leather industry and showed a degree of experience). She was very talky, had a big mouth and always attempted to persuade you getting new deals before that your current one was actually over. I got trapped like this with this second jacket. I only asked if the first jacket could be made only of FQHH and she started pushing to buy the materials. I accepted and was asked to pay the entire price for the jacket at the beginning. As before I accepted because I wanted to have everything set to start working on it, avoiding all kind of pathetic excuses. This happened in January 2012. Once I payed I was told by her that it needs 2 months and that I do not need to be there bc she has all the references from the first jacket.
And it started.
In the meantime I had to get the zipper. She stated that she can not start any work because of the lacking zipper - bs. I got her the zipper 1 wk later - told me it was too late. She rescheduled my jacket. Ok, no problem. Then she called me to ask about the measurements of the first jacket (she lost them yeah right). I made pictures, I wrote there all the dimensions of each panel even. After a 2 weeks I get an email that she can not read them. I spent 30 min on the phone to explain that she only had to zoom pictures at actual picture size (perhaps she was doing this on purpose to get me mad). After she still did not see those (bs) and asked to send a mail with sizes written. I sent them, but bad luck the Easter was coming and they had almost 2 weeks of vacation. Then the leather workers vacation came (!). Then they had an exhibition they had to attend. Afterwords they actually started working on it in June (!!! ). But a problem, leather was to thick/stiff though she assured me at the beginning that there is no problem. Now the machinist working to it got sick and so we got to July. I asked her whether I would ever see the jacket ready. She assured me that on 1st of August will be ready(I was going to Romania on holidays). I asked some basic pictures with the progress and she replied that I am too incisive and she won't reply to me anymore. I threatened with calling the police for theft and scam and she suddenly started to be very cooperative. I was asked to come for trying it on before getting finished. I refused as she guaranteed at the beginning that there is no need for it(I was enraged at this stage). Back in Romania, after some attempts to synchronize with her "Hines" I managed to finally get the jacket. I can not describe what kind of disgusted look she threw at me. I told her very polite that she can forget me as a client and that she should thank me for not going to the police to send them for a little check over there.
About the initial payment we agreed for a term and I get one day a call(before the term) rushing me to send her urgently the money. I had to use WesternUnion and paying 10% more. Why a manufacture would want WU wire transfer on a persons behalf? Strangely enough no one had a bank account there ..right.
About the work quality. If you are on them they can get good things. If let by themselves they get it wrong for sure. This even if always I provided full written doc with pictures, descriptions, color printed. Always their work had flaws. Always at the final reception fitting/result was not right and it needed re-sending for rework. Always the terms were delayed by a large margin, and this at last moment. These delays were bc they took more work(attracting people to place orders and making false promises) than available capacity. As a result they "fine-tuned" it by lying to me and other customers making up excuses to be able to advance with other work. This is the "business" that they offered.
To sum it up, this is one of the worst experiences I have ever had. It was completely opposed to what happens when dealing with Aero or other reputable business. But for Romania and Balkan area this is something normal. Think about twice when trying to do business over there. I hate to say it but this is the inherited culture. Not much changed even after 23 years. According to her she activated also in the previous "era" so its understandable. I felt mocked up, laughed in the face and this of course on the money I payed. Thinking back I'd rather pay twice but get a relaxed interaction and avoid all those headaches and irritating countless interactions.

 

[Worf]

Great jacket! I understand why you would block out your face due to privacy concerns, but why are your shoes/boots censored too?

I was thinking the same thing? I also don't know why so many here block out their faces as well? On the run from the law, ex-wives? Just curious. As to the jackets themselves, the black one's sleeves are a tad too long and the sleeves look a little "blousey" or puffy, which isn't all bad if you're trying to fit a long sleeve shirt inside em. The sleeves might shrink up a bit with wear but you might need to give em the HWT instead.

Worf

 

[cordwangler]

I'm guessing Strasbourg. So that's narrowed the ID down a little bit.

 

[mihai]

@Worf

Thanks a lot for the suggestions regarding the sleeves, eventually I might get to them. About the sleeves, I noticed on some vintage Grizzly jackets (and the one from LW) that sleeves are wider than Aero's Grizzly for example.
The jacket is meant to be worn at temp < 5 deg C when is likely that over the T-shirt I'd add a thin-medium sweater(wearing the jacket directly on the T when cold, makes for a nasty sweat sometimes). Regarding their length, I requested the right length but those ... did a "great" job sizing them wrong. I noticed this but I've been so pissed off that there is no way I'd wish to see that woman in front of my face, let alone deal with her.
About the censure, I am a fan of separating my professional, public life from the private one. So far I reached the conclusion that in business the less it's known about you (as a private person) the best. So the moment I step out from work, it's only my business what I'm doing. Not my actual or ex professional partners. Also I am not a big fan of social networks and making my existence public. Although I've been using Internet since 1996 and witnessed all kind of trends I prefer to limit it's use to only what is necessary. I'm not stating this is the right thing to be done or not, is just a personal opinion.

@cordwangler

Yes it's Strasbourg but I passed by there as a visitor like many others.

 

[Metatron]

Wow that is a bit of an Odyssey you went through for that jacket. My dad managed a clothing factory in Romania for several years and he told me about the mentality you described. If you want a good price on a custom jacket it might be worth checking with Wested UK.

 

[mihai]

Wow that is a bit of an Odyssey you went through for that jacket. My dad managed a clothing factory in Romania for several years and he told me about the mentality you described. If you want a good price on a custom jacket it might be worth checking with Wested UK.

Unfortunately yes and it exceeded my expectations.
Is's a small world. Never thought there are members having much to do with Romania. Major part of people(more the ones without superior studies) got this mentality during the Communist era. They worked/activated in a non competitive economy so it did not matter the quality of your work but just the amount(so it could be reported right to the party). There were many cases where they simply mocked up things to get the statistics right. They became masters at "working things out", incredible adaptable and inventive. This happened in factories but also in places where you offered services - you had nothing to worry, you could happily simulate work. So there was no competition, people were automatically given work by the party and they did not have to care too much. Many got retired most often from the same working place they started.
So this mentality is hard to correct at an elder person. As a result there is the mentality your father observed, that I described, that makes things go wrong in general. Younger generations and elder ones with higher education have a healthy mentality opposed to the one above. However the momentum is still too great for it to be effective.

Thanks for the tip with Wested UK, they look interesting. I will try to contact them.
I must admit I learnt (the hard way) that you cannot have Merc quality at Dacia price. I am not willing to ever get that kind of adventure.

PS: may I ask in which part of the country did your father manage that factory?
This thing with foreign managers reminds me of a recent mishap: they tried to hire a foreign manager to get Tarom(Romanian national flight company) back on profit again. They got an Austrian manager that ran away in no time when they started imposing him things like salary increases and to whom, which personnel to hire, not to lay-off people before the elections. For details here is an approximate translation of an article: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.evz.ro%2Fdetalii%2Fstiri%2FEXCLUSIV-Austriacul-de-la-TAROM-a-refuzat-cumetriile-romneti-1008825.html

 

[schitzo]

Your experiences remind me of dealing with Chinese tailors in the fabric markets over there. Like you said, if you don't keep your foot on their neck - so to speak - anything and everything will go wrong.

But the cardinal sin you committed was to pay them up front! My policy (in China) is half now and the other half when it's done. I have found that is the ONLY way to deal with them

All the best
Schitz