FredS
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 148
- Location
- The Netherlands
I wrote to Horween after I came across and read the following interview that Phil Kalas from Horween gave regarding Chromexel.
The correspondence I had with Phil follows after the interview below:
Interview with Phil Kalas from Horween
http://www.bestleather.org/about-the-famous-chromexcel-leather-from-horween-tannery/
11/15/13, Phil Kalas <phil@horween.com>
Hi Fred!
Nick Horween forwarded me your correspondence from a form you sent on horween.com.
I saw you read the interview with me regarding Chromexcel and its versatility. Chromexcel is a very versatile leather and the jackets made out of it are absolutely beautiful. I don't think you have anything to worry about with the Alexander jackets as this leather has been used in that type of jacket for many, many years!
I can see how some of the words I wrote about using Chromexcel for upholstery on furniture could be confusing and might deter you from wanting this leather on a jacket. These concerns really do not translate to a jacket as you won't be using it the same way as a couch.
Could you please tell me some of your concerns? I will be happy to tell you if they are valid or not! I should be able to ease your mind as the Jackets that Aero and Alexander make from Horween leather are totally stunning and beautiful!
Best regards from Chicago,
Phil Kalas
Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:58 PM, fred stausebach wrote:
Hi Phil,
First let me thank you for responding to me personally. I appreciate that a lot. I have on order a jacket from Alexander leathers in Cromexell Black Steer. We'll my concerns are probably unfounded but what I was worried about is where you say that the Chromexell scratches and scuffs easily as it is a soft leather being a naked full grain aniline tanned leather. Also where you mentioned that it is not very colorfast and if exposed to the sun for long periods the color will fade. I received a sample piece of Chromexell Black Steer from Alexander and I love it for it's buttery feel and lovely grain. I have ordered a biking style jacket in this leather from them. I noticed after rubbing and playing with the sample piece that the black color is only a top coat and that the base color is brown. So the black is hand rubbed on after the vegetable tanning stage I learned after reading all the info on the Horween website. That made me wonder why Horween doesn't drum dye with black dye also but only in brown. Would it not be better to have black chromexell with the base color also in black? In other words black right through the leather. I am just concerned that my black jacket will after some time become more brown then black as the black topcoat starts wearing through revealing the brown base color. Or is this an unfounded concern? I realize that a bit of the brown showing through could actually enhance the jacket as long as the brown shows through in a subtle way. Another thing...is it prone to staining as it has no protective coating? And what is the best way of caring for the leather? Here in Holland we have a Dutch product specially made for leather care called Rapide Leather Cream. It is made of only natural and non-harmfull ingredients and smells like almonds. I tried it on the sample patch and it made it even more soft and supple without becoming greasy or sticky. I tried the clear Rapide Leather Cream but it is also available in black and in brown. Maybe it would be good to use the black once in a while to maintain the black of my jacket. I guess one should not treat this leather more then maybe once a year as otherwise the leather might become over impregnated with it.
And then finally ...I notice that this leather is mainly used for shoes and boots and so I wonder how well suited this leather is for jackets. I couldn't find any other jacket makers then Aero and Alexander Leathers that use it for leather jackets. That made me wonder why other jacket manufacturer's do not also use it for their jackets.
Phil...those are quite a few questions
I look forward to hearing the answers from you. I have heard so much about Horweens and how it is a family business with such a long and reputable history that I really look forward to owning a jacket made from your legendary Cromexel.
Ps. On Alexander's website they advertise this leather as being 3 ounces or 1.4 mm thick. But when I Google leather thicknesses and ounces charts I see that 3 ounces is rated at 1.2mm and that 1.4 mm is generally 4 ounce. So what is the Chromexell Steer thickness and weight that Alexander Leathers has in stock? Is it 3 ounce at 1.2mm or is it 4 ounce at 1.4mm?
Thank you for responding and I look forward to your answers
Sincere regards
Fred Stausebach
HI Fred,
Great questions! Valid concerns as well.
1) Chromexcel in most forms will scratch and scuff rather easily -- many people find this to be a nice characteristic because as the jacket is used it quickly gathers and collects age nicely and has a vintage aesthetic.
2) With regards to color: If you leave the leather in direct sunlight for a very long time (months/years) the color will start to mild out. This is not something you should be concerned with on a jacket. A couch, for example, is left in the same spot and sunlight on a daily basis will cause the color to fade over time.
3) The chromexcel is typically tanned with natural tree-bark (veg tan) extracts that create the natural taupe under color (we call this crust color). We do hand stain the black on top of it. You are correct that many people like to see the contrast when the item is used -- really it is up to the jacket manufacturer to pick what leather base and stain color they want. Maybe this is something you can ask Alexander about. I can assure you that your jacket will not become brown over time unless you take a lot of sand paper and sand off all of the black!
4) Staining and care: You shouldn't worry about staining. Treat the leather on the jacket like your do your skin. If it gets dirty you can take a damp cloth and wipe off the dirt. If the leather ever starts to feel dry or look dry to can apply some oils or leather conditioner to it. I suggest using Venetian Creme for it but I am not familiar with Rapide Leather Cream. Having said that, the leather shouldn't feel dry for a very very long time unless your bake the jacket in an oven or a hot car for a very, very long time! I would suggest using a black leather conditioner or better yet a neutral color like the Venetian. A black conditioner will fill the brown scuffs with the black stain and should fix your concerns of having two-tones. If you like the way it wears in just stick with the neutral cream or none at all!
5) Chromexcel is an EXTREMELY difficult leather to make jackets and other leather goods with. This is because the leather has a natural stretch to it that is difficult to control unless the craftsperson is very skilled. I have seen some Aero and Alexander jackets in person and they are very well made. Another company called Golden Bear makes Horween jackets and a company called Schott is making chromexcel jackets so they are a little more common than you believe. Mainly the reason you don't see more Chromexcel jackets is because we cannot make as much as people want! Horsehides are difficult for us to acquire these days.
6) I am unsure on how to answer this last question regarding thickness. The horsehides will naturally range from 2-3 oz. (0.8mm-1.2mm) -- the lightest weight steer hide we make is 3 oz. or 1.2 mm. Please know that even in each skin the thickness will vary by 0.5 oz. This is a good leather thickness conversion chart: http://www.cromwellgroup.com/thickness_chart.html
There was an Alexander jacket (in burgundy) in our office for awhile and it was incredibly beautiful and comfortable. I think you are going to be extremely satisfied with it! The best thing to keep in mind is that this leather was meant to be worn and used. The scratches and scuffs acquired by the jacket tell a story about you and your lifestyle. I think they should be worn with pride by you and passed down to your next generation!
I hope this helps -- I am happy to answer any more questions you might have!
Best regards from Chicago,
Phil Kalas
The correspondence I had with Phil follows after the interview below:
Interview with Phil Kalas from Horween
http://www.bestleather.org/about-the-famous-chromexcel-leather-from-horween-tannery/
11/15/13, Phil Kalas <phil@horween.com>
Hi Fred!
Nick Horween forwarded me your correspondence from a form you sent on horween.com.
I saw you read the interview with me regarding Chromexcel and its versatility. Chromexcel is a very versatile leather and the jackets made out of it are absolutely beautiful. I don't think you have anything to worry about with the Alexander jackets as this leather has been used in that type of jacket for many, many years!
I can see how some of the words I wrote about using Chromexcel for upholstery on furniture could be confusing and might deter you from wanting this leather on a jacket. These concerns really do not translate to a jacket as you won't be using it the same way as a couch.
Could you please tell me some of your concerns? I will be happy to tell you if they are valid or not! I should be able to ease your mind as the Jackets that Aero and Alexander make from Horween leather are totally stunning and beautiful!
Best regards from Chicago,
Phil Kalas
Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:58 PM, fred stausebach wrote:
Hi Phil,
First let me thank you for responding to me personally. I appreciate that a lot. I have on order a jacket from Alexander leathers in Cromexell Black Steer. We'll my concerns are probably unfounded but what I was worried about is where you say that the Chromexell scratches and scuffs easily as it is a soft leather being a naked full grain aniline tanned leather. Also where you mentioned that it is not very colorfast and if exposed to the sun for long periods the color will fade. I received a sample piece of Chromexell Black Steer from Alexander and I love it for it's buttery feel and lovely grain. I have ordered a biking style jacket in this leather from them. I noticed after rubbing and playing with the sample piece that the black color is only a top coat and that the base color is brown. So the black is hand rubbed on after the vegetable tanning stage I learned after reading all the info on the Horween website. That made me wonder why Horween doesn't drum dye with black dye also but only in brown. Would it not be better to have black chromexell with the base color also in black? In other words black right through the leather. I am just concerned that my black jacket will after some time become more brown then black as the black topcoat starts wearing through revealing the brown base color. Or is this an unfounded concern? I realize that a bit of the brown showing through could actually enhance the jacket as long as the brown shows through in a subtle way. Another thing...is it prone to staining as it has no protective coating? And what is the best way of caring for the leather? Here in Holland we have a Dutch product specially made for leather care called Rapide Leather Cream. It is made of only natural and non-harmfull ingredients and smells like almonds. I tried it on the sample patch and it made it even more soft and supple without becoming greasy or sticky. I tried the clear Rapide Leather Cream but it is also available in black and in brown. Maybe it would be good to use the black once in a while to maintain the black of my jacket. I guess one should not treat this leather more then maybe once a year as otherwise the leather might become over impregnated with it.
And then finally ...I notice that this leather is mainly used for shoes and boots and so I wonder how well suited this leather is for jackets. I couldn't find any other jacket makers then Aero and Alexander Leathers that use it for leather jackets. That made me wonder why other jacket manufacturer's do not also use it for their jackets.
Phil...those are quite a few questions
I look forward to hearing the answers from you. I have heard so much about Horweens and how it is a family business with such a long and reputable history that I really look forward to owning a jacket made from your legendary Cromexel.Ps. On Alexander's website they advertise this leather as being 3 ounces or 1.4 mm thick. But when I Google leather thicknesses and ounces charts I see that 3 ounces is rated at 1.2mm and that 1.4 mm is generally 4 ounce. So what is the Chromexell Steer thickness and weight that Alexander Leathers has in stock? Is it 3 ounce at 1.2mm or is it 4 ounce at 1.4mm?
Thank you for responding and I look forward to your answers
Sincere regards
Fred Stausebach
HI Fred,
Great questions! Valid concerns as well.
1) Chromexcel in most forms will scratch and scuff rather easily -- many people find this to be a nice characteristic because as the jacket is used it quickly gathers and collects age nicely and has a vintage aesthetic.
2) With regards to color: If you leave the leather in direct sunlight for a very long time (months/years) the color will start to mild out. This is not something you should be concerned with on a jacket. A couch, for example, is left in the same spot and sunlight on a daily basis will cause the color to fade over time.
3) The chromexcel is typically tanned with natural tree-bark (veg tan) extracts that create the natural taupe under color (we call this crust color). We do hand stain the black on top of it. You are correct that many people like to see the contrast when the item is used -- really it is up to the jacket manufacturer to pick what leather base and stain color they want. Maybe this is something you can ask Alexander about. I can assure you that your jacket will not become brown over time unless you take a lot of sand paper and sand off all of the black!
4) Staining and care: You shouldn't worry about staining. Treat the leather on the jacket like your do your skin. If it gets dirty you can take a damp cloth and wipe off the dirt. If the leather ever starts to feel dry or look dry to can apply some oils or leather conditioner to it. I suggest using Venetian Creme for it but I am not familiar with Rapide Leather Cream. Having said that, the leather shouldn't feel dry for a very very long time unless your bake the jacket in an oven or a hot car for a very, very long time! I would suggest using a black leather conditioner or better yet a neutral color like the Venetian. A black conditioner will fill the brown scuffs with the black stain and should fix your concerns of having two-tones. If you like the way it wears in just stick with the neutral cream or none at all!
5) Chromexcel is an EXTREMELY difficult leather to make jackets and other leather goods with. This is because the leather has a natural stretch to it that is difficult to control unless the craftsperson is very skilled. I have seen some Aero and Alexander jackets in person and they are very well made. Another company called Golden Bear makes Horween jackets and a company called Schott is making chromexcel jackets so they are a little more common than you believe. Mainly the reason you don't see more Chromexcel jackets is because we cannot make as much as people want! Horsehides are difficult for us to acquire these days.
6) I am unsure on how to answer this last question regarding thickness. The horsehides will naturally range from 2-3 oz. (0.8mm-1.2mm) -- the lightest weight steer hide we make is 3 oz. or 1.2 mm. Please know that even in each skin the thickness will vary by 0.5 oz. This is a good leather thickness conversion chart: http://www.cromwellgroup.com/thickness_chart.html
There was an Alexander jacket (in burgundy) in our office for awhile and it was incredibly beautiful and comfortable. I think you are going to be extremely satisfied with it! The best thing to keep in mind is that this leather was meant to be worn and used. The scratches and scuffs acquired by the jacket tell a story about you and your lifestyle. I think they should be worn with pride by you and passed down to your next generation!
I hope this helps -- I am happy to answer any more questions you might have!
Best regards from Chicago,
Phil Kalas
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