Music?

[Salv]

flush rap down the trap! It's not good for society.

I'm not for one moment implying that you're a segregationist, but this sort of statement reminds me of the idiotic pronouncements of Asa Carter of the Alabama White Citizens Council who, in 1956, claimed that "Rock 'n' roll will pull the white man down to the level of the negro"; and that it "...appeals to the base in man, it brings out animalism and vulgarity"; and - my favourite - “Rock ‘n’ roll is part of a plot to undermine the morals of the youth of our nation. It is sexualistic, unmoralistic, and the best way to bring people of both races together.”

But to answer the original question - how about some of the jazzier hip-hop stuff?

Guru's Jazzmatazz Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 mix samples and live jazz playing with Guru rapping over the top of Lonnie Liston Smith, Donald Byrd, Roy Ayers, Freddie Hubbard, Ramsey Lewis, Branford Marsalis, Ronnie Jordan and Courtney Pine.

Grandfather Ridiculous have a good EP available - I Get The Message is excellent.

Brooklyn Funk Essentials have done some great stuff - their version of Pharoah Sanders The Creator Has A Master Plan was one of the best records of the 1990s. Actually, Sanders original version of The Creator... is guaranteed to confuse the hell out of anyone that hears it blasting out of a car filled with a bunch of young gangsters. It sounds like the soundtrack to the revolution.

 

[funneman]

Some times a couple of freinds of mine and I dress up in our "ganster" suits and roll around town.any one got a suggestion for tunes?

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. Try Muddy Waters or Howling Wolf. Nothing says "Rollin' around town in a ganster suit" better than "I'm built for comfort, not for speed." or "I'm a Man."

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

I'm not for one moment implying that you're a segregationist, but this sort of statement reminds me of the idiotic pronouncements of Asa Carter of the Alabama White Citizens Council

(Course I could've agreed with you even more before rap devolved from an art form into "gangsta" stuff... :eusa_doh: ) but I'll say it anyway, just because: Go Salv! :eusa_clap

But to answer the original question - how about some of the jazzier hip-hop stuff?

Maybe you know this - there's a jazz-hiphop fusion trumpet artist recorded an instrumental CD around 2000 - 2002 that included a really great cover of a Thelonious Monk tune (Evidence? Epistrophy?...) and the cover was him with facepaint a la Spike Lee's "Bamboozled", but I can't remember the artists name... if anyone here does, that'd be another good one for transition between hiphop & golden era jazz

- Cousin Hepcat

 

[jake_fink]

I think you all scared Taylord away.

 

[nightandthecity]

To get back to the original issue: for the full on gangster experience don't compromise! Go for any good 1920s/30s jazz. Most of the inter-war mobsters were big jazz fans. Capone's brother Ralph is reputed to have said "it's got guts, and it don't make you slobber". Big Al himself was particularly into Beiderbecke. So you could do worse than start with the Frankie Trumbauer Orchestra with Bix, Joe Venuti, Eddie Lang, Adrian Rollini....

Incidentally,I guess that makes jazz "bad for society" too! Plenty of people said so at the time......

 

[Wild Root]

To get back to the original issue: for the full on gangster experience don't compromise! Go for any good 1920s/30s jazz. Most of the inter-war mobsters were big jazz fans. Capone's brother Ralph is reputed to have said "it's got guts, and it don't make you slobber". Big Al himself was particularly into Beiderbecke. So you could do worse than start with the Frankie Trumbauer Orchestra with Bix, Joe Venuti, Eddie Lang, Adrian Rollini....

Incidentally,I guess that makes jazz "bad for society" too! Plenty of people said so at the time......

How right you are! :eusa_clap (insert old man voice) Them Darn kids and they're Jazz music! lol

=WR=

 

[Wild Root]

I think you all scared Taylord away.

By Gorge, I do believe he's right!lol lol lol

Taylord, are you still with us?

=WR=

 

[221b]

I knew that comment would get thrown in my face. Im sorry but there is no comparison to the Gansta rap of today and rock n roll of the 50's.
Did they talk about killing cops, raping women, doing drugs, the in your face mentality, and all the other things that uplift a society and bring self esteem to people? Rap is good for selling alot of records to the youth, but it does nothing for the good of man. This is not a race issue, I dont care for death metal or any other music like that either.

 

[Wild Root]

I knew that comment would get thrown in my face. Im sorry but there is no comparison to the Gansta rap of today and rock n roll of the 50's.
Did they talk about killing cops, raping women, doing drugs, the in your face mentality, and all the other things that uplift a society and bring self esteem to people? Rap is good for selling alot of records to the youth, but it does nothing for the good of man. This is not a race issue, I dont care for death metal or any other music like that either.

Amen brother!


Well, it's very interesting and you may know this already but, if you listen to some early Cab Calloway, there are many references to "Weed" or "Reefer" to make a modern day person surprised... I know I was! But, in the 20's and 30's, those were hard times and well, drugs were being used. Alcohol was mentioned in most songs of those days, most musicians drank and so did the people they played for.

By all means it was never as "In your face" as today's Rap music but, it sure isn't as squeaky clean as we'd like to think of it either.

=WR=

 

[221b]

I guess every generation thought that the sky was falling with the new music styles. I personally just think that rap and death metal are really pushing the envelope way too far, but so do the movies and tv shows, the video games and other media outlets. Nuff said, back to talking about our clothes!:eusa_clap

 

[Wild Root]

Nuff said, back to talking about our clothes!:eusa_clap

Not in this thread, we're talking music, savvy?

Hey, if you ask me, modern music an all the things you just mentioned are what's ruining my generation! I couldn't agree more!

=WR=

 

[Salv]

I knew that comment would get thrown in my face. Im sorry but there is no comparison to the Gansta rap of today and rock n roll of the 50's.
Did they talk about killing cops, raping women, doing drugs, the in your face mentality, and all the other things that uplift a society and bring self esteem to people? Rap is good for selling alot of records to the youth, but it does nothing for the good of man. This is not a race issue, I dont care for death metal or any other music like that either.

A brief selection from my iTunes library:

Drugs - as Root says, Cab Calloway was singing about drug abuse back in the 30s - Kickin' The Gong Around was drug slang, Minnie The Moocher has such lines as "...she loved him tho' he was cokey."

Murder and violence - various versions of Stagolee relate how "Stagolee shot Billy" over a gambling debt; Davy You Upset My Home has Joe Tex explaining how he beats his girlfriend, knocking out her teeth, ripping out her hair and ultimately giving her brain damage because of her love for Davy Crockett; Hey Mr Warden has Danny Cobb asking for ridiculous last meals in order to delay his execution by electric chair - "If you ain't got 'em you better get 'em, 'cos I ain't gonna let you fry me until you get back here with 'em"; Johnny Cash famously "shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."

Alcohol abuse - where to start? I Ain't Drunk, Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-Dee, Good Good Whiskey, One Scotch One Bourbon One Beer - there's a huge list of R&B and RnR booze songs.

And of course there must have been thousands of records about sex - Rock n Roll itself is a euphemism for sex. And there were many records that were simply crude - I won't mention any titles but there's at least one CD called For Adults Only that collects some of the better known filth, including an infamous outtake by The Clovers that is one of the nastiest records I've ever heard. It really puts all the foul-mouthed rappers to shame, and it was recorded in 1954.

And do you really think that Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard weren't 'in your face?' How threatening must Elvis and Richard have appeared to American parents in the mid-50s?

 

[ortega76]

I guess every generation thought that the sky was falling with the new music styles. I personally just think that rap and death metal are really pushing the envelope way too far, but so do the movies and tv shows, the video games and other media outlets. Nuff said, back to talking about our clothes!:eusa_clap

In additionto the above points, I will point out that you are condemning a specific section of a music genre. Just as you most likely do not like every band or singer that is in the rock category, there are huge stylistic differences between rappers. Even in some of the mainstream acts you're likely to hear, someone like Ludacris doesn't really rap about violence, he's strictly about fun and a good time (yes, that means alchohol).

Rap can also be intelligent while being highly sexual or boastful or playful. Check out A Tribe Called Quest. There music includes be-bop samples, lyrics about sex, black history and listening to Lionel Hampton records. Hard to pin down what's so offensive. Even the old school bad boys of rap, NWA, expressed a huge concern for social injustice. Their "violent" rhymes directed against police and civil authorities were often a call for social change. They were a call to end abuse and reform social policy in the Black community. At worst, their music reflected what was present in their community.

I understand you may not like the music. I loathe country, myself. We all have our preferences. I don't think making these types of blanket statements is fair, warranted, just or even defensible.

 

[jake_fink]

Drugs - as Root says, Cab Calloway was singing about drug abuse back in the 30s - Kickin' The Gong Around was drug slang, Minnie The Moocher has such lines as "...she loved him tho' he was cokey."

Murder and violence - various versions of Stagolee relate how "Stagolee shot Billy" over a gambling debt; Davy You Upset My Home has Joe Tex explaining how he beats his girlfriend, knocking out her teeth, ripping out her hair and ultimately giving her brain damage because of her love for Davy Crockett; Hey Mr Warden has Danny Cobb asking for ridiculous last meals in order to delay his execution by electric chair - "If you ain't got 'em you better get 'em, 'cos I ain't gonna let you fry me until you get back here with 'em"; Johnny Cash famously "shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."

Alcohol abuse - where to start? I Ain't Drunk, Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-Dee, Good Good Whiskey, One Scotch One Bourbon One Beer - there's a huge list of R&B and RnR booze songs.

And of course there must have been thousands of records about sex - Rock n Roll itself is a euphemism for sex. And there were many records that were simply crude - I won't mention any titles but there's at least one CD called For Adults Only that collects some of the better known filth, including an infamous outtake by The Clovers that is one of the nastiest records I've ever heard. It really puts all the foul-mouthed rappers to shame, and it was recorded in 1954.

And do you really think that Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard weren't 'in your face?' How threatening must Elvis and Richard have appeared to American parents in the mid-50s?

IT'S ALL TRUE!

Rock n Roll was exciting because it was threatening, so was jazz. Buddy Bolden, credited as the first jazz (jas) musician and band leader was a violent, drugged out straight razor-carrying barber from the mucky, poor part of New Orleans who spent the last part of his life in an asylum. In T for Texas, one of his biggest hits, our old pal Jimmy Rodgers yodeled:

I'm going to buy me a pistol
Just as long as I'm tall
I'm going to buy me a pistol
Just as long as I'm tall
I'm gonna shoot poor Thelma
Just to see her jump and fall

Lonnie Johnson, as great a jazz/blues guitarist as there is sang about murder at least as often as he sang about love. And on the subject of love, rock n roll is a euphamism for sex, and jelly roll is a euphamism for... well, just think of how effusive Bessie Smith was about her man's jelly roll and you'll get the idea. Sex and violence have been part of the musical landscape at least as far back as opera - probably to as far back as music had words. It's been argued that Homer did not recite his work, he sang it.

Music is like any other art form, it can take us up to the edge of an experience without dropping us over, and so, like other art forms it often deals with extremes of human behaviour and aspects of life that are felt more often than they are discussed. Of course music for young people will deal in some way with sex! Most young people are ambulatory bags of hormones with little else on their minds. But the result can be beautiful. Phil Phillips' Sea of Love is as sexy a song as there is, but it is also just a beutiful piece of pop rock.

I can't stand rap for other reasons. It is very much a part of the video culture, it is music that has to have images attached to it, and those images are generally misogynistic, money-worshipping and repetitive. The music itself bores me, its lyrics are doggerel hooked to simple melodies usually copped from other sources and mixed rather than played. It sounds like processed cheese tastes, phony and nasty. It's been argued that hip hop is the blues, if not the jazz, of our times (Steve Earle has said this; it is one of the themes in Hustle and Flow...), and that may be, or may have BEEN, but now, like anything else in our culture it's been marketed ad nauseum and wringed to death.

I'm ready for the next musical movement.



*Full Disclosure: I'm an old punk.

 

[ortega76]

I can't stand rap for other reasons. It is very much a part of the video culture, it is music that has to have images attached to it, and those images are generally misogynistic, money-worshipping and repetitive. The music itself bores me, its lyrics are doggerel hooked to simple melodies usually copped from other sources and mixed rather than played. It sounds like processed cheese tastes, phony and nasty. It's been argued that hip hop is the blues, if not the jazz, of our times (Steve Earle has said this; it is one of the themes in Hustle and Flow...), and that may be, or may have BEEN, but now, like anything else in our culture it's been marketed ad nauseum and wringed to death.

I'm ready for the next musical movement.



*Full Disclosure: I'm an old punk.

Agreed. I'm not defending rap as saying it's ALL great. I'm saying there are some incredible artists out there and you may not have heard of them. Hey, I am really digging this black punk/rap group out of FL called Whole Wheat Bread. Are they hardcore punks? Nope but their music is interesting and features some cool (pop) punk undertones that is a real change from many current hip-pop records.

fftopic: I was screwing around with my iTunes stuff and pulled up my most frequently played stuff. It seems to be about even between the Wu-Tang, Sinatra, Sublime and Miles Davis. Odd cross section.

 

[Salv]

fftopic: I was screwing around with my iTunes stuff and pulled up my most frequently played stuff. It seems to be about even between the Wu-Tang, Sinatra, Sublime and Miles Davis. Odd cross section.

I thought this deserved a thread all of its own - 25 Most Played songs in your iTunes library
. Mine are all fairly obscure 60s and 70s soul tunes, apart from number 25[huh]

And of course, not all hip-hop is gangstas, bitches and hoes.

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

I knew that comment would get thrown in my face.

Incidentally I was thinking about your & Salv's posts the other night... I have to say actually, as for "gansta", I actually agree with you. I even said so myself not long ago, with what Rap's become, far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't mind if it dropped off the face of the earth altogether. After completely turning it off in high school when the Gangsta phenomenon took hold, I periodically kept "checking out the state of the art" to see if it had returned to decency, and was disappointed every time. A real shame. And the way all that money society pumps into purchasing that gangsta creates an irresistable draw to such a negative lifestyle for so many talented young urban folk... anyway. I'll probably always hold onto the feel-good "party" vinyl from when I was a kid, and glad to hear some saying they've found some current artists who are trying to be more positive, but honestly, just one guy's opinion here mind you all, the "kop killaz" really can flush themselves.

Anyway yeah, Taylord's gotten freaked out and is long gone, but don't let that stop us! lol

Hey, if you want to go AUTHENTIC gansta, you have to play the bands recordings from the eras they were playing The Cotton Club:

Duke Ellington (1927-1930) and Cab Calloway (1931-193?)! THATs your authentic prohibition era gangster soundtrack. Duke's '27-'30 tracks are so adventurously unique, stylized and varied textures, you'll never even realize your listening to all songs by the same one band. The best of that era, hands down. Representative track: "Jungle Nights in Harlem", off the CD reissue of the same title (in print), which contains others of his best from that era.

Swing High,
- Cousin Hepcat

 

[Wild Root]

I'm comming out of my closet!

Well guys, you'll all die when you hear this but, in the years of 1989-1992 I was an MC Hammer fan! Yeah, Can't touch this! Hahahahaha You know, out of all the Rap, Hammer was pretty mellow. Yes, this was before there ever was a "Wild Root" who joined the Vintage Reich; swarmed to authenticity and to uphold style and taste of the Golden Era at all times.lol

So, now you all know a deep dark secret about ol' Root.

=WR=

 

[Salv]

Well guys, you'll all die when you hear this but, in the years of 1989-1992 I was an MC Hammer fan! Yeah, Can't touch this! Hahahahaha You know, out of all the Rap, Hammer was pretty mellow. Yes, this was before there ever was a "Wild Root" who joined the Vintage Reich; swarmed to authenticity and to uphold style and taste of the Golden Era at all times.lol

So, now you all know a deep dark secret about ol' Root.

=WR=

Did you wear Hammer pants as well?

 

[jake_fink]

Now that's Golden Era. (I've gone blind!!)