Movies And Their Profanity

[HadleyH]

This reminds me... wasn't there a certain degree of swearing in some pre-code films?

Yes, but not too much.

 

[Diamondback]

... but I don't wan't to be cocked on the edge of my seat like that! i want to be relaxed when i watch a movie, anyway, that's not my sort of movie . 20s and 30s movies i like much better!

Good point, different perspective for a different person's tastes. I mostly watch war-movies, usually for inspiration and to "pump-up" on adrenaline before I head into the combat simulation for a couple hours' "strategic training"...

 

[Dr Doran]

You're talking more like an evolutionary process of society in stages, which in the end, will pan out in utopia. I find that hard to swallow because a society without a standard have no absolutes. There is no right or wrong therefore everything is permissible under the sun because there is no accountablity. This is the gradual process of decay in modern civilization reducing society to a bunch of uncivilized people without self control. We might think it's getting better, but we're actually like the frog in the kettle with the heat ever turned up so lightly at every stage.

With all due respect, I believe this is utterly incorrect. There is a simple mechanism that adjusts things (or, if you prefer, "corrects" things in the same way that economists say "the market will 'correct' itself") and that is simply WHAT WORKS. A custom will pass itself on if it worked for one person or a small or large group of people who are able to pass it on. If it starts to become useless or counterproductive to a good life, however that is defined, it gets chucked. If it is not conducive to the orderly production of flourishing offspring, to give the most obvious example, it lingers for a generation or two and then gets chucked. Survival (and flourishing) is the standard as well as the absolute. As Foofoo very wisely mentioned earlier, it is when a group of people notices how a young person's habits (taken usually from the parents) result in good or bad offspring that the inherent usefulness of a custom is seen.

As you can see from this post, I am neither a typical conservative nor a typical liberal. Both positions contain much nonsense and some good ideas.

For a fascinating book exploring societies that have NOT ditched counterproductive lifeways, check out Robert Edgerton's Sick Societies, the final pin in the balloon of cultural relativism.

 

[beaucaillou]

I don't even know where to begin.

American language exists as it's own entity. This is confirmed in every scholastic circle I can conceive of/have encountered/know of. The actual English language is something else. Ask an England native; I'm sure he/she will confirm this.

No one disputes, aside from here, that America as we know it is an adolescent country. I've never insinuated that it would end in Utopia. The very concept is plebeian to me and not one for me to play at as a) I'm not God and could not know such a thing and to that end b) can't pretend what is 'Good' for one person as very often what is 'Good' for one person comes in the form of the 'Bad.'

As someone who has known paramount strife, cruelty, darkness, and malice at another's hand for an extended amount of time, I also know that what is often concluded by society as *gasp, horror* BAD!!!, actually results in resilience, depth, understanding, patience, compassion, and GOOD.

For me to pretend to know the inbetween is for me to pretend at being God. So does profanity actually negatively effect a culture in the end?? Who is to say what actually does?? I for one would never be so presumptuous.

 

[Gilbey]

Survival (and flourishing) is the standard as well as the absolute.

Yes, you're right about this ... and that's the animal kingdom.

But thank you, I'll check out the book.

 

[Dr Doran]

I don't even know where to begin.

American language exists as it's own entity. This is confirmed in every scholastic circle I can conceive of/have encountered/know of. The actual English language is something else. Ask an England native; I'm sure he/she will confirm this.

No one disputes, aside from here, that America as we know it is an adolescent country. I've never insinuated that it would end in Utopia. The very concept is plebeian to me and not one for me to play at as a) I'm not God and could not know such a thing and to that end b) can't pretend what is 'Good' for one person as very often what is 'Good' for one person comes in the form of the 'Bad.'

As someone who has known paramount strife, cruelty, darkness, and malice at another's hand for an extended amount of time, I also know that what is often concluded by society as *gasp, horror* BAD!!!, actually results in resilience, depth, understanding, patience, compassion, and GOOD.

For me to pretend to know the inbetween is for me to pretend at being God. So does profanity actually negatively effect a culture in the end?? Who is to say what actually does?? I for one would never be so presumptuous.

Good points. I don't believe in invisible beings personally, but I am taking this to mean that you are careful to assert that you are not omniscient and that is respectable.

 

[Dr Doran]

Yes, you're right about this ... and that's the animal kingdom.

But thank you, I'll check out the book.

And whether or not you accept evolution (I certainly do), human behavior is quite similar to animal behavior -- check out Desmond Morris' Naked Ape or for something more recent, anything by E. O. Wilson. There are even eerie parallels to religious behavior among animals. Genuflexion, for example, and possibly sacrifice. Walter Burkert's Creation of the Sacred: the footprints of biology in ancient religions discusses all of this with many examples that cross the animal/human divide.

Which brings us back to the topic. (Sorry I got off it.) Whether a given word is judged by an individual person as profane or not, it conveys a sense of anger, helplessness, uselessness, and inability to deal with a situation. It's an uncreative response to a problem. Sometimes I think this is more annoying than the word itself -- although when it comes down to it, I agree with the conservatives on this thread -- I would prefer little Dominika (see photo at left) to avoid saying ugly words.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

This reminds me... wasn't there a certain degree of swearing in some pre-code films?

Yes. There were swear words in some silent movie titles as well. And let's not forget what can be "heard" through all that lip-reading!!

Ever see what Anita Page calls Joan Crawford in Our Dancing Daughters (1928)???!!!! It's clear as day!

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

I know I deleted my previous posts, but from the perpective of a friend of mine, when an actor or actress swears, either according to script or improvised, too much of it tells him (my friend) they don't have anything better to say, which is a lot like what Scotrace wrote earlier.

 

[Andykev]

It has gone too far for sure.

Wow. This was moved to the MOVIES section...and it has barely touched on the film. This thread is more a commentary on society, but I guess that film is supposed to be a commentary, also art, entertainment, whatever the director and writer want to be viewed.

A long time ago I took a date to see "Richard Pryor, Live on the Sunset Strip", (I think that was the title). We walked out in about 8 minutes. The entire movie was nothing but a tirade of the "F" this and "F" that.

IT WAS PURE GARBAGE.

Now, I don't swear (often), and try to NEVER blaspheme. But SOME movies do need a "juice" word as part of the depiction, the earlier example when in a WWII film, or a plane crash scene, an actor will read the line "OH S***", or "AW F****". That is probably accepted by most of the general movie going public.

With that said, I never watch, nor allow my family to watch, the RAP videos where the lyrics demean women, color, the police, society....etc. It is hate music. Same goes for film, in that profanity used freely and often usually demonstrates a lack of writing ability on the part of the screen writer. Oh, and I also don't enjoy the "potty movies" like those starring Adam Sandler.

 

[HadleyH]

Yes. There were swear words in some silent movie titles as well. And let's not forget what can be "heard" through all that lip-reading!!

Ever see what Anita Page calls Joan Crawford in Our Dancing Daughters (1928)???!!!! It's clear as day!

You are right Amy Jeanne! and now I will watch again "Our Dancing Daughters" and pay more attention to Anita Page I just adore that movie anyway!

 

[scotrace]

As far as 'Deadwood' goes, Milch said that the swearing was used to mirror the amount of actual profanity used at the time, but that the specific profanities which were used in that era and location of the US were so antiquated and odd that they had no bearing on modern viewers, so he only replaced the words themselves with modern equivalents, but retained the frequency of profanity that was employed in langauge at that time. Just FYI.

Cheers.

I completely understand this perspective. But my personal feeling is it would be better to stick with the historical dialog. Listening to substituted modern profanity in a show set in the 19th century is much like the annoying feeling I get watching Dr. Zhivago or Lawrence of Arabia with all those 1960's hair styles. A ghastly artistic choice.

 

[jamespowers]

I completely understand this perspective. But my personal feeling is it would be better to stick with the historical dialog. Listening to substituted modern profanity in a show set in the 19th century is much like the annoying feeling I get watching Dr. Zhivago or Lawrence of Arabia with all those 1960's hair styles. A ghastly artistic choice.

lol lol lol lol lol lol
:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Amy Jeanne]

You are right Amy Jeanne! and now I will watch again "Our Dancing Daughters" and pay more attention to Anita Page I just adore that movie anyway!

Haha! Anita's questionable word is towards the end -- when she's drunk and telling off Joan. You tell me what Anita says and drop me a PM -- I wanna know if it's just me or if that's really what she says!!!

 

[HadleyH]

Haha! Anita's questionable word is towards the end -- when she's drunk and telling off Joan. You tell me what Anita says and drop me a PM -- I wanna know if it's just me or if that's really what she says!!!

Will do babe!

 

[Lady Day]

Ugh!...it was totally and absolutely overdone! Really it was, those people went over the top with the profanity. Who can watch a program in peace and relaxed when all that is going on? ... Well, I can't anyway...

The swearing in season one was overdone. In the later seasons, their dialogue changed to a mesh in a slip in proper English etiquette with the commonality of talk used today. I loved it!

LD

 

[K.D. Lightner]

At least one foreign film I can think of, and probably many more, have rather tame English translations of what I believe is really being uttered on the screen.

In one case, during an intense moment in the movie Electra (1962, director: Michael Cacayonnis). Electra's brother, Orestes, and a friend, have managed to kill king Aegisthus, the man their mother turned to when their father, Agamemnon, went off to the Trojan War. His body is lying on a bier.

Electra (Irene Pappas) approaches his body, filled with hatred and contempt for him, a vain arrogant handsome, almost pretty man, who had become king after he and her mother slay Agamemnon after he returns from the Trojan War. Gloating over the dead man, she gets down right in his face and utters some phrases in Greek; you can tell by her body language and the look on her face that she is saying something vile to him.

As she spews out her hatred of him in Greek, the only word that appears on the bottom of the screen is "fop."

Many in the audience roared at that.

karol

 

[Dr Doran]

At least one foreign film I can think of, and probably many more, have rather tame English translations of what I believe is really being uttered on the screen.

In one case, during an intense moment in the movie Electra (1962, director: Michael Cacayonnis). Electra's brother, Orestes, and a friend, have managed to kill king Aegisthus, the man their mother turned to when their father, Agamemnon, went off to the Trojan War. His body is lying on a bier.

Electra (Irene Pappas) approaches his body, filled with hatred and contempt for him, a vain arrogant handsome, almost pretty man, who had become king after he and her mother slay Agamemnon after he returns from the Trojan War. Gloating over the dead man, she gets down right in his face and utters some phrases in Greek; you can tell by her body language and the look on her face that she is saying something vile to him.

As she spews out her hatred of him in Greek, the only word that appears on the bottom of the screen is "fop."

Many in the audience roared at that.

karol

The Kakoyannis ELEKTRA is one of my favorite movies of all time, Karol! I presented it to the Classics Undergrad Association once. BRILLIANT film. You gained many points in my book for just bringing that up.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Doran -- Yes, I love Electra, have it in DVD and was able to show it to many friends who had not seen it.

I have also seen Iphigenia and Antigone, enjoyed both, but Electra is one of my very favorite films.

Not surprisingly, Irene Pappas is my favorite actress. I got to see her play in The Bacchae in NYC.

karol

 

[Twitch]

How things have changed value-wise. We're all worried about seeing people smoking in movies today. In the Golden Age they floated in on a smoke cloud in every flick and no one batted an eye.

Cursing is yet another part of human nature on an everyday basis. I sincerely have to question the delacasy of some people here- especially guys- that fact as if they have never functioned in normal interactions with people who cussed like Goodfellows. Have you been under a rock or what? Most of the places you go in this nation you will hear people cursing like that.

And women when in groups can rip off some naughty language too so don't pretend you are above it.

This may not be board room language but by and large the rest of the working class have Goodfellows conversations regularly.

These are words adults use when they are angry, frustrated, aggravated, or thwarted. "Oh poo!" simply doesn't convey most people's feelings when they learn they've become a victim of downsizing or have been passed over for a promotion for a buttkissing dork, or find their health insurance company is dropping them, or that they've lost their retirement fund to crooked managenment.:rage: