Moth Damage Repair

[kmbrady]

Flipping can sometimes be an option, but you will have a few things to contend with.

One: a great portion of hats have not been finished on the inside of the crown. So you will probably have to address that.

Two: Depending on the age or era of the hat, chances are that the inside is not the color of the outside or brim. Sometimes this is due to fading on the outside of the hat. Others seem to have more of a possible color degradation. Stetson Silverbelly from around the 1950's a classic case of this. They quite often have turned to a pinkish hue on the inside and if you attempt a pouncing, you will only expose more and it is not an even nor attractive pink color.

Three: The sweatbands can often leave a stain or "shadow" over time, just like a ribbon. This is an easy cover up depending on the ribbon you choose.

Four: Moths really love to get under the sweatband too! In fact the region behind sweatband and ribbon is usually the most affected as the little guys don't like the light.

Now please don't take this post as just me trying to get you down. Every hat is different and poses its own adventure. I have flipped a great many hats. I just thought it might be nice to give you a quick synopsis on what things you or others might expect when giving "The Flip" a try.

Best of luck with it!

Bob

Bob, I appreciate your input and obvious knowledge in this subject but my initial curious (more academic than practical) was related to how this flip would effect the orientation of the nap of the felt. If you look at a fedora from the bottom then the nap goes clockwise, based on the recommendations for brushing. Therefore if you did flip it it holds to reason that the flipped hat now has a reverse nap. Just one of those situations that make you go hmmm,
Just something to ponder on a cold wet day!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Frunobulax]

Bob, I appreciate your input and obvious knowledge in this subject but my initial curious (more academic than practical) was related to how this flip would effect the orientation of the nap of the felt. If you look at a fedora from the bottom then the nap goes clockwise, based on the recommendations for brushing. Therefore if you did flip it it holds to reason that the flipped hat now has a reverse nap. Just one of those situations that make you go hmmm,
Just something to ponder on a cold wet day!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The short answer is yes. Stop thinking of it as a hat, and think of it as a disk. It will run the "opposite" way, once inverted.

 

[navarre]

I like your answer Fruno! Beware the secret messages


Kmbrady: The real answer goes back to the fact that the inside more times than not, is not finished completely. So it wouldn't matter. There is no direction to the nap on the inside of the crown. The direction comes from the finishing process. If it were finished though, the nap would still be in the "proper" direction.

 

[kmbrady]

That is interesting, so the nap is result of the pouncing process and not somehow related to the initial felting or blocking of the hat. Thanks for that info Navarre!
Kerry

 

[Frunobulax]

I like your answer Fruno! Beware the secret messages


Kmbrady: The real answer goes back to the fact that the inside more times than not, is not finished completely. So it wouldn't matter. There is no direction to the nap on the inside of the crown. The direction comes from the finishing process. If it were finished though, the nap would still be in the "proper" direction.

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[Michael A]

I don't know if this is the best thread or not, but at least it's had posts this year. The hat I got this week from Bob H. had a nice little moth hole in the crown.
DSCN2930 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
Although the perfection of the bore hole could suggest that a previous owner had drilled a hole for some reason. In any case that's the hole before, and this is the hole after,
DSCN2931 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
I imagine that with a little more practice, forethought or effort I could have done a better job, but for me for now this will do.

What I did was buy a set of replacement needle felting needles, Clover brand, at Dick Blick.
DSCN2936 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
The needle itself,
DSCN2934 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
And a close up of the working part,
DSCN2935 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
The little notches in the needle catch the fiber and push it through the other fibers and the existing felt. I took a small piece of wool yarn that matched the color of the hat fairly well and went to work on it with the needle. After about 5 minutes I had the hole filled about how I wanted it to be. Then I shaved off the loose fibers on the top with a sweater shaver and gave the area a few shots of steam and some brushing.
DSCN2933 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

Et voila

Michael

 

[BobHufford]

Et voila

Nice work!

 

[FedOregon]

Et voila
Michael

Excellent, Michael!

 

[moontheloon]

I don't know if this is the best thread or not, but at least it's had posts this year. The hat I got this week from Bob H. had a nice little moth hole in the crown.
DSCN2930 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
Although the perfection of the bore hole could suggest that a previous owner had drilled a hole for some reason. In any case that's the hole before, and this is the hole after,
DSCN2931 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
I imagine that with a little more practice, forethought or effort I could have done a better job, but for me for now this will do.

What I did was buy a set of replacement needle felting needles, Clover brand, at Dick Blick.
DSCN2936 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
The needle itself,
DSCN2934 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
And a close up of the working part,
DSCN2935 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
The little notches in the needle catch the fiber and push it through the other fibers and the existing felt. I took a small piece of wool yarn that matched the color of the hat fairly well and went to work on it with the needle. After about 5 minutes I had the hole filled about how I wanted it to be. Then I shaved off the loose fibers on the top with a sweater shaver and gave the area a few shots of steam and some brushing.
DSCN2933 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

Et voila

Michael

fantastic work Michael

 

[KarlCrow]

Et voila

Michael

great stuff

 

[Bob Roberts]

Good Michael. VERY GOOD, SIR!

 

[Michael A]

Thanks guys. I would say it went better than expected. Because it's a sort of hairy and heathered felt I didn't really want to try to sand off enough scruff to try to fill the hole, so I lit on the idea of needle felting it with new material. I don't think it would be my method of choice for divots or maybe even holes on a smooth finished hat, but it worked well for this style of felt. And who knows, maybe with a little practice and some extra steps it might work well in other situations as well.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Edward]

Very impressive. Where did you find such a needle?

 

[navarre]

Great work Michael, awesome mending!

If you guys don't mind though, I would like to give a word of caution. A felting needle is a cool tool and because Michaels hat is a long hair, the felting is looser and more accepting of this style of treatment. But be wary of using a felting needle on a smooth felt, particularly vintage felt. The tight knit of the felt often does not respond well to a felting needle and you can cause irreparable damage to the hat.

Needle felting works because the fibers of hair have room left between them that allows working. Think of a knit wool sweater. You can still work a wool sweater because there are spaces left between the knits. You can shrink or stretch it because of this. This is similar to a long hair felt.

Now picture a tight knit piece of fabric. Say something fine like satin or silk. These are similar to a good vintage felt. The fibers are smaller and tight together. There is not a lot of room to adjust. If you go about with a barbed implement you often only accomplish more holes and a breakdown of the material. I say this from experience.

Here at the shop I don't offer a standard "Moth repair", because there sadly isn't a one size fits all solution. Some can be hidden, some can be patched and as in Michaels case, successfully mended.

I am certainly not trying to discount the felting needle or saying you should attempt to repair your own moth damage. I just want to pass on some sound info from many trials with such needles. They aren't to be used with lightly and can create more of a problem. So please proceed on your vintage hats with caution.

Again, great work Michael. It is always cool to see a good repair. Much accolade!


Bob

 

[Michael A]

Very impressive. Where did you find such a needle?

Thanks. I got the needles at the art supply chain Dick Blick, but they are widely available online and at crafting stores.

Great work Michael, awesome mending!

If you guys don't mind though, I would like to give a word of caution. A felting needle is a cool tool and because Michaels hat is a long hair, the felting is looser and more accepting of this style of treatment. But be wary of using a felting needle on a smooth felt, particularly vintage felt. The tight knit of the felt often does not respond well to a felting needle and you can cause irreparable damage to the hat.

Needle felting works because the fibers of hair have room left between them that allows working. Think of a knit wool sweater. You can still work a wool sweater because there are spaces left between the knits. You can shrink or stretch it because of this. This is similar to a long hair felt.

Now picture a tight knit piece of fabric. Say something fine like satin or silk. These are similar to a good vintage felt. The fibers are smaller and tight together. There is not a lot of room to adjust. If you go about with a barbed implement you often only accomplish more holes and a breakdown of the material. I say this from experience.

Here at the shop I don't offer a standard "Moth repair", because there sadly isn't a one size fits all solution. Some can be hidden, some can be patched and as in Michaels case, successfully mended.

I am certainly not trying to discount the felting needle or saying you should attempt to repair your own moth damage. I just want to pass on some sound info from many trials with such needles. They aren't to be used with lightly and can create more of a problem. So please proceed on your vintage hats with caution.

Again, great work Michael. It is always cool to see a good repair. Much accolade!


Bob

I'm 100% in agreement with Bob. And I was not forceful enough with my disclaimers. I think this method would be only for through holes and then probably only in the crown where only one side is visible. What I did in reality was construct a plug in situ that had a similar texture and color to the hat felt. Almost all of the needle strokes were through the hole and working the wool only, not through the hat felt. So as Bob says, there is no one size fits all solution, but in certain cases the one I used may be effective.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Redfokker]

This thread is exactly what I needed. Glad I didn't have to search for it. My Brent OR Clone has a pretty deep infestation of moth damage. One is a through the felt type. I'm going to experiment on this $40 hat before it goes to Mike Miller for restoration. I was thinking of a mid ribbon to cover the worst of the damage, but I'll give these techniques a try first.

 

[moontheloon]

This thread is exactly what I needed. Glad I didn't have to search for it. My Brent OR Clone has a pretty deep infestation of moth damage. One is a through the felt type. I'm going to experiment on this $40 hat before it goes to Mike Miller for restoration. I was thinking of a mid ribbon to cover the worst of the damage, but I'll give these techniques a try first.

View attachment 75149 View attachment 75150

I have a simple method that I have had success with ... and I actually had a discussion recently with Matt Deckard about attempting to develop some sort of "mothing" repair solution ... or as he referred to it a "felt putty"

... anyway I have had some nice success when I took a fine sandpaper and sanded up a little tumbleweed of felt from the inside of the hat and filled the divot or hole.
a time or two on larger holes that went through the felt I put a small piece of tape on the inside and gently poked the sanded up felt through with a pin

I do not recommend doing what I am about to mention yet ... but I am currently experimenting on a few thrashed hats I have that have moth spots that are more the divot type with a blended concoction of finely cut up stitch witchery and the sanded up felt ... I had one stay pretty well after hit with some heat.
the spot is slightly darker but it is full ... like I said ... a work in progress

all that being said ... I never even bother with mothing unless it is right in the front of the hat or somewhere above the bow or in any spot that bothers me too much

 

[Redfokker]

I have a simple method that I have had success with ... and I actually had a discussion recently with Matt Deckard about attempting to develop some sort of "mothing" repair solution ... or as he referred to it a "felt putty"

... anyway I have had some nice success when I took a fine sandpaper and sanded up a little tumbleweed of felt from the inside of the hat and filled the divot or hole.
a time or two on larger holes that went through the felt I put a small piece of tape on the inside and gently poked the sanded up felt through with a pin

I do not recommend doing what I am about to mention yet ... but I am currently experimenting on a few thrashed hats I have that have moth spots that are more the divot type with a blended concoction of finely cut up stitch witchery and the sanded up felt ... I had one stay pretty well after hit with some heat.
the spot is slightly darker but it is full ... like I said ... a work in progress

all that being said ... I never even bother with mothing unless it is right in the front of the hat or somewhere above the bow or in any spot that bothers me too much

Thanks for this Moon. This hat will be a test bed for techniques. I'm still on the fence about keeping it as a OR clone with the cattleman crease. The chances are that it will be conversion to a Whippet-like final look.

 

[belfastboy]

I just finishing repairing a moth divot in a vintage Stetson. Just a small nibble on the crown just above the thin ribbon. I used a combo of techniques...first sanding the area lightly, then scraping the divot with a sharp exacto knife (I won't do the scraping the next time I repair as it was not needed. The sanding produced enough felt fluff and the divot was too deep to eliminate with the scraping. Using a non residue craft bond I dabbed the divot lightly using a toothpick and then placing the scraped fluffed felt on top of the divot worked it in with a small steel round ball stylus that fit the divot very closely. I am thrilled with the result. The repair is near flawless.
One of my weird standards is not to buy or wear a moth damaged hat. I have now rehabilitated a formerly unwearable hat. My wife just looked at it and she could not see the repair. Thank you Fed Lounge members for such a valuable tip.

 

[moontheloon]

I just finishing repairing a moth divot in a vintage Stetson. Just a small nibble on the crown just above the thin ribbon. I used a combo of techniques...first sanding the area lightly, then scraping the divot with a sharp exacto knife (I won't do the scraping the next time I repair as it was not needed. The sanding produced enough felt fluff and the divot was too deep to eliminate with the scraping. Using a non residue craft bond I dabbed the divot lightly using a toothpick and then placing the scraped fluffed felt on top of the divot worked it in with a small steel round ball stylus that fit the divot very closely. I am thrilled with the result. The repair is near flawless.
One of my weird standards is not to buy or wear a moth damaged hat. I have now rehabilitated a formerly unwearable hat. My wife just looked at it and she could not see the repair. Thank you Fed Lounge members for such a valuable tip.

pic please