Morning Dress On the Cheap

[3PcSuit]

I am looking to put together something formal in short time on the cheap. I'm in the Manhattan area, but want to avoid spending thousands, even many hundreds of dollars, or getting the generic big box rental trousers worn all out and with sloppy tailoring and cheap crummy fabric.

SO I need to find this in a week, can anyone recommend either used or new mens morning dress trousers. I don't want them to be too frilly, as I am not wearing htis ot a horse race or a wedding, rather for occassions like a funeral, court, Easter.

I will probably just modify a black jacket to suit as a stroller. Does it *need* to be one button? I see some arguments, probably all in people's heads or 200 yo rules from some fashion guide talking about vents and lapel type and even the type of pockets. Will a 2-button notch lapel single breasted suit with flap pockets fit hte bill?

And where does one obtain a suitable vest?



Need cheap shoes, cheap vest, what is not allowed? I want this to be subtle, but not so much so that people don't recognize it for what it is, but also not cartoonish or costumey like the Monopoly character. I have to go into court and sue someone in this, I want them to know they messed with the WRONG GUY.

I think any spats, a top hat, gloves might be over the top. Is a pocketwatch OK? I'm worried a double-breasted vest might be too showey, maybe one with lapels is OK though, single breasted? I actually see double-breasted vests makgin a small comeback, maybe just in the Hispanic community here though; they seem to dress much more formally, especially considering many come from limited means. Surprising ot see tennis shoes and ballcaps worn by people that prolly make 30 or more times as much moneya s I do in a year.

I was thinking maybe a cutaway coat instead of a stroller. Doesn't he US Solicitor General wear a very diminished (not full length) version of a tailcoat? I found a picture but it was very poor difficult ot make out, wasn't a stroller, but slightly longer black coat., looked like a standard grey vest.

I can probably get away with just used tux shoes. Not sure about hose and what ties colors are appropriate.


Appreciate the forum's help. . .

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I will probably just modify a black jacket to suit as a stroller. Does it *need* to be one button? I see some arguments, probably all in people's heads or 200 yo rules from some fashion guide talking about vents and lapel type and even the type of pockets. Will a 2-button notch lapel single breasted suit with flap pockets fit hte bill?

It does not need to be a one button jacket with peaked lapels and falpless pockets, but it does look more the part if it is. I do use quite often a double breasted (4x1) with glencheck trousers and it looks fine.


Need cheap shoes, cheap vest, what is not allowed? I want this to be subtle, but not so much so that people don't recognize it for what it is, but also not cartoonish or costumey like the Monopoly character. I have to go into court and sue someone in this, I want them to know they messed with the WRONG GUY.

I think any spats, a top hat, gloves might be over the top. Is a pocketwatch OK? I'm worried a double-breasted vest might be too showey, maybe one with lapels is OK though, single breasted? I actually see double-breasted vests makgin a small comeback, maybe just in the Hispanic community here though; they seem to dress much more formally, especially considering many come from limited means. Surprising ot see tennis shoes and ballcaps worn by people that prolly make 30 or more times as much moneya s I do in a year.

Spats and gloves could actually be worn as they are not that conspicuos, but you need to be somewhat thick-skinned to deflect a few jokes now and then. A tophat should be worn only with the cutaway, the best hat for a Stresemann would be a homburg. One extra you forgot is a walking cane but hat, gloves and cane (a mandatory set, this means it should all or nothing) does look quite fancy nowadays. I do use them (plus spats) but I am not sure I could advise it. Perhaps it could work (without hassle) for some events (it usually does for me). A pocketwatch is ok, though somewhat impractical with a doublebreasted jacket. Money does not (always) mean upper class, at least on the European side of the Atlantic, nor is it an indicator of style or taste.

I was thinking maybe a cutaway coat instead of a stroller. Doesn't he US Solicitor General wear a very diminished (not full length) version of a tailcoat? I found a picture but it was very poor difficult ot make out, wasn't a stroller, but slightly longer black coat., looked like a standard grey vest.

I can probably get away with just used tux shoes. Not sure about hose and what ties colors are appropriate.


Appreciate the forum's help. . .

Yours,

Phileas Fogg

 

[Godfrey]

I got a great set of tails once from a formal wear company with old stock they couldn't move. It was a little worn but spruced up with a good brush. Worked well when I was a University student - turning up to parties in tails a little worse for wear. A little 'My man Godfrey' - which fit me fine

 

[3PcSuit]

Yours,

Phileas Fogg

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Streseman? IDK about a hat, definitely not a cane, but I could get away with an umbrella There's a joke about the UK and umbrellas. Spats are out for court. I'd basically just have the stuff in my hands the whole time there anyway, correct? Gloves are removed indoors too, right? I wear my trusty pocketwatch everywhere, even with jeans; would seem silly NOT to wear it in a more formal setting. Is it still appropriate with morning dress? I have a silver-colored one. Seem to remember gold is/was a no no, but I am not afraid to break rules on an outfit that has been extinct here 50 years.

I know overseas it is different, with what Japanese politicians still wearing morning dress along w/other countries. But here I think tails can only be gotten away with at night, and tophats are essentially extinct.

Where does one obtain affordable patent leather gloves?

And what type of shoes specifically? If you could provide examples of items for sale, I'd appreciate, even overseas, to give me a starting point. Looking for shoes, trousers, and a vest, specifically.


One last question, is a ventless black jacket apropos? I'm thinking I'll only be able to scrounge up for the above items for now. I think even a wing-collared shirt would be too much, thogh am tempted as I have worn them to Easter and funerals before.


@Godfrey, am talking about morning dress. It's been a while, but isn't the tailcoat different on a tuxedo than the one used in the day? We very very rarely encounter morning dress in the US.

Really wish there were some better photos of the solicitor general. That is the closest one could prolly get to a sleek, streamlined, modern version of the outfit.


I could get away w/cutaway, but definitely NOT tails, I would be confined to the psych ward at the end of the trial, not walk out of court a winner! Cutaway can be black or grey, correct? Am hesitant to buy anything from a used tux shop, as the knockoffs they do are poorly tailored and cheesy. Maybe a cutaway'd be OK, but defeinitely NOT the trousers.

 

[3PcSuit]

Yours,

Phileas Fogg

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Streseman? IDK about a hat, definitely not a cane, but I could get away with an umbrella There's a joke about the UK and umbrellas. Spats are out for court. I'd basically just have the stuff in my hands the whole time there anyway, correct? Gloves are removed indoors too, right? I wear my trusty pocketwatch everywhere, even with jeans; would seem silly NOT to wear it in a more formal setting. Is it still appropriate with morning dress? I have a silver-colored one. Seem to remember gold is/was a no no, but I am not afraid to break rules on an outfit that has been extinct here 50 years.

I know overseas it is different, with what Japanese politicians still wearing morning dress along w/other countries. But here I think tails can only be gotten away with at night, and tophats are essentially extinct.

Where does one obtain affordable patent leather gloves?

And what type of shoes specifically? If you could provide examples of items for sale, I'd appreciate, even overseas, to give me a starting point. Looking for shoes, trousers, and a vest, specifically.


One last question, is a ventless black jacket apropos? I'm thinking I'll only be able to scrounge up for the above items for now. I think even a wing-collared shirt would be too much, thogh am tempted as I have worn them to Easter and funerals before.


@Godfrey, am talking about morning dress. It's been a while, but isn't the tailcoat different on a tuxedo than the one used in the day? We very very rarely encounter morning dress in the US.

Really wish there were some better photos of the solicitor general. That is the closest one could prolly get to a sleek, streamlined, modern version of the outfit.


I could get away w/cutaway, but definitely NOT tails, I would be confined to the psych ward at the end of the trial, not walk out of court a winner! Cutaway can be black or grey, correct? Am hesitant to buy anything from a used tux shop, as the knockoffs they do are poorly tailored and cheesy. Maybe a cutaway'd be OK, but defeinitely NOT the trousers.

P.S. If it is raining, cold, I take it a trench coat, a blue one is NOT appropriate? What is the appropriate attire to wear over morning dress?

 

[Paul Roerich]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Streseman?

Not Streseman: Stresemann. Why not google it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroller_(style)


"In Germany, a stroller is called a Stresemann, after the Weimar German chancellor Gustav Stresemann. Stresemann, like other German politicians of his age, wore morning dress or a frock coat in the Reichstag or when making public appearances. However, Stresemann found the long coat impractical for daily work in the Chancellery. To avoid having to change completely, he began to wear the prototype of this jacket at his office, while switching to a morning coat when engaged on more formal business. The style quickly caught on as a more practical variation on morning dress."


Patent leather gloves don't exist.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Well, basically there are four formal (or better 2 formal and 2 semi-formal) sets of clothes.
For evening - tailcoat (aka full evening dress, tails, white tie) and dinner jacket (aka tuxedo in the US)
For morning - morning dress (aka cutaway, does also have tails, but is less common to call it "tails") and Stroller (aka Stresemann/directors Suit/black lounge)

From your description it would seem that you are aiming for the stroller (semi-formal morning dress, less formal than the morning coat but more formal than a dark grey suit).

No vents are fine, a golden pocket watch is fine, no problems or rules against gold, you should just avoid overdoing it (too much gold and one ends up looking like a Russian Icon).

Hats and gloves are basically for outdoors. Gloves can be black or grey, leather or cotton for summer (I would really advise against black leather gloves during summer). Spats are very uncommon nowadays, but could be worn indoors, still, I agree that being that uncommom it could be better to avoid them at least at first.
Yours,

Phileas Fogg

 

[dhermann1]

I was able to get a nice stroller, striped trousers, and double breasted linen waist coat, all former rental (except the waistcoat), for a very good price on Ebay. But I had to watch the sales like a hawk for several weeks to get my size in everything. I'm still hoping to snag a pair of gray wool spats. I got one pair that turned out to be WAAAY too small.
I'll wear it with a black bowler hat. Still haven't decided what shirt and tie to wear, but I'm leaning toward one of those blue striped shirts with white turn down collar and cuffs, and a plain blue and silver striped tie. If you have the time and patience, Ebay can be great. If you don't (like for a specific event) then I'd just go rental.

 

[dhermann1]

P.S. I really think going to court in the US in the 21st century in anything other than a dark business suit (that fits well!), would totally backfire on you.

 

[John in Covina]

If you had a good amount of time you could see if there was any used in your size so regular searches on EBAY along with visiting a variety of thrift stores. Some places you can leave them your contact info if they come across the items you are looking for. Estate sales might be a posible. Here is one of those knowing your suit measurements and how to measure along with where to measure on jackets, etcetera may open up some opportunities. Unfortunately, the concept ofr formal in the US is collapsing as we speak. Here in So Cal, several of the local tux shops only had notched lapel "tuxes" on display. Many did not have a bow tie but had that carbuchon stone BS at the collar. None had a morning suit on display. As goes California so goes the union when it comes to all sorts of distruction of tradition.

Keep searching and get it now before flipflops and shorts are considered funeral wear in our area. (Don't forget the Big Gulp and texting during the ulegy.)

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

P.S. I really think going to court in the US in the 21st century in anything other than a dark business suit (that fits well!), would totally backfire on you.

I have to agree to this. They will think you are in fancy dress. Do it for your own joy in prrivate but not at the court to impress people. They won't be impressed.

For the other questions I would look here:
http://www.morningdressguide.com/

 

[3PcSuit]

P.S. I really think going to court in the US in the 21st century in anything other than a dark business suit (that fits well!), would totally backfire on you.

I honestly don't think even some of the lawyers would catch on to what the outfit is. With just a stroller, I don't see how it would be any different than wearing grey slacks (which I have seen) with a black jacket.

Dark suit in court? I've seen beer t-shirts and dirty wrinkled clothes in court! Most people don't even bother wearing dress clothes (indeed, do some people just not own them anymore?) so I think as long as it is done in a subdued manner it will be accepted. I mean for the attire to "one up" whoever it is I am going to be sitting across the table from.



No, I don't want to walk in dressed like the Monopoly character. Just the pants and a vest aren't out of place, and the solicitor general wears them to work every day. BTW, does anyone know if they have the full cutaway or a stroller? I don't seem to remember the jacket being full-length of a cutaway in the photos I've seen.

 

[Paul Roerich]

Please take photos of yourself outside the Court building!

 

[3PcSuit]

I will, and although, I can't get away with a camera prolly inside, will love to see what they have to say about me puffing on an e-cigarette in the gallery :-D

 

[dhermann1]

Oh, man, I can just see the next thread to come out of this: Glamour in the Slammer!

 

[Rathdown]

Just as a point of clarification for those coming cold to this conversation; a cutaway coat is a single breasted frock coat the front of which has been "cut away", unlike a "tails coat" which is a double breasted coatee (a jacket which ends at, or just above the waist) with tails in the back that reach to a point just above the bend of the knee.

As an aside, I remember attending court once in Los Angeles, California, where a Scottish advocate was pleading before the bench in bans, gown, and wig. The judge took no notice of the attire of the advocate, and at the end of the trial actually complimented him on have appeared suitably attired in his court.

 

[Tenorclef]

Whilst I own a morning coat, I've yet found the opportunity to wear it. I figured as its probably the most formal of jackets (well for me any way) that perhaps i'll wear it at a wedding but its possible that in my socio-economic circle that i'd be overdressed or worse mistaken for the groom. Still I have a hankering to wear it and one day i'm quite sure the new tags will be removed and the jacket dutifully worn.

 

[3PcSuit]

Please take photos of yourself outside the Court building!

BTW, is that the guy from 'Breaking Bad' as your avatar? :-D On a mobile phone, so can't find the quote, but whoever said there are no patent leather shoes instead of coming off as a cocly pretencious internet armchair expert you could've answered the question of appropriate footwear instead of tooting your own horn . . .

 

[3PcSuit]

Please take photos of yourself outside the Court building!

Took a while, but I won in arbitration!

 

[Picard1138]

If you want it quick and cheap I recommend www.uniformalwearhouse.com . It's where the rental places get their stuff around here, their morning wear is actually pretty nice. Order a size down on the vest, though.

-Max